News Crime and Punishment in Beyond Chapter One

Excellent. Thank you Ed. For the french CMDRs, I created a video to explain these feature. If you have any question, don't hesitate
Merci pour le résumé Ed. Pour les joueurs francophones, j'ai une vidéo à disposition et peut, si vous avez du mal avec ces notions, répondre à vos questions (sur le forum dédié par exemple)

Fly Safe CMDR ;)
 
Great post, thanks Ed. Looking forward to the imminent update, some really awesome changes in it, the team has knocked it out of the park again.
 
Hi. I've already had my first question answered, sort of, so I'd like to continue the discussion here.

Frontier, are you saying that we can have a hot fleet that only uses station services at anarchy stations, whilst simultaneously having a clean fleet that can operate anywhere?

Or will notoriety levels close off services for our clean ships also?

Furthermore, will notoriety cause loss of service access at anarchy stations?
 
If bounties are attached to the ship what happens when you sell the ship? Does the bounty disappear?
you can only sell the ship at a significant discount if it's hot but yeah, if it's a cheapo ship I suppose you COULD get away with less of a loss than your bounty is worth...but not your notoriety. You'd still have that if you got your bounties killing players....I think.
 
Just finished reading the whole thing. What an excellent, clear and well written summary. I actually fully understand ALL the changes (and the reasoning behind them) now. +rep to the author(s).
 
Thoughts on Some of the Proposed Changes...

Greetings Commanders,

...

Essentially, the new crime and punishment system will add appropriate consequences for criminal activity, make the crime system more legible and easier to understand, there will be new rules for bounties and fines, and new rules for respawning after ship destruction.

Bounties and Fines
• Bounties and fine are applied to the ship you're in.
• Fines never mature into bounties.
• Bounties never become dormant.
• Bounties never expire.
• Fines can be paid off at security contacts
• Bounties can be cleared by Interstellar Factors when your Notoriety is 0
• Claimed bounties for the jurisdiction you died in must be paid when you re-spawn at detention centres.

...These changes aim to simplify crimes. You will now have more control over your criminal status risk and reward. You can store a ship with bounties on (a hot ship), hiding your criminality, but at the cost of not using the ship. Bounties are now more significant as you must use Interstellar Factors to clear them, which can be expensive.
I read many pages of feedback when Frontier were 'consulting' the 'community' (those players who frequent this forum...) on the proposed changes to the crime and punishment system. From what I read, there were many who expressed great concern with the idea of attaching the 'wanted' status to the ship, and not to the Commander. It appears to me that Frontier had a set idea in mind, and have opted to completely ignore those concerns, while giving the appearance of 'listening' to the wider community - (well, those on this forum that seem to dictate the direction of the game for the thousands of other players not subscribed to this forum...).

Bounties, Noteriety & Murder

• Bounties and fine are applied to the ship you're in.
• Bounties never become dormant.
• Bounties never expire.
• Bounties can be cleared by Interstellar Factors when your Notoriety is 0
• Claimed bounties for the jurisdiction you died in must be paid when you re-spawn at detention centres.
• Bounties prevent access to all services except missions in progress, Interstellar Factors and black markets.
• A ship with bounties on it is hot.

• Notoriety increases by one whenever a Commander commits a murder crime.
• Any Notoriety means the interstellar factors cannot clear your fines or bounties.
• Notoriety decays one unit every 2 hours of time when you’re logged in the game back down to zero.
(These changes ensure that Commanders can't completely shed their criminal status by swapping to clean ships.)

______________________

So, looking at these bullet points, it appears that a Commander can commit murder and have his notoriety increased by 1. The Commander need only wait 2 hours and his notoriety will be reset to 0. At that point, the Commander is free to go and clear the bounty for murder after 2 hours.

Personally, I do not find this change appealling. It's a ridiculous notion to believe that a person who commits a murder loses notoriety - especially in such a short space of time. Basically, a player could go on a killing spree for a night, and then go to bed. The next day - after 8 hour sleep, and perhaps a day at work, the notoriety is back to zero. Pay off all bounties and go at it again...

On Bounties, they never expire, but can be paid off (cleared)... Basically, a murderer is free to slaughter, lose notoriety, pay off the bounty and suffer very little consequences (I haven't been sucessfully interdicted by an AI ship for months and months - regardless of ship I fly...).

I would like to clarify whether notoriety applies to the galaxy at large, or just the jurisdiction in which a person committed a crime? I could see some benefit to having notoriety applying to different jurisdictions. For example, a Commander loyal to the Empire may not mind being wanted and being notorious in Federation space - jumping into Federation space to commit crimes, but returning to Empire space (Independent, or whatever) to sell plunder. This is where the rivalry between powers comes into play, I suppose - and the PowerPlay feature touches on this.

• When in a hot ship, port services are restricted in jurisdictions where the ship is wanted - your ship logs in anonymously.
• Fines prevent access to all services except missions in progress, security contact, Interstellar Factors and black markets
• Bounties prevent access to all services except missions in progress, Interstellar Factors and black markets.

I'd have much prefered a system whereby the Commander in a hot ship is able to use facilities, unless the ship has been sucessfully scanned by the station/authorities before docking. This would mean that Commanders have to resort to methods such as silent running to try and dock before being scanned. Or, alternatively, if a ship is wanted and is scanned by the station/authorities, they should be denied permission to dock and attacked (I think that happens now...).

• Any Notoriety means the interstellar factors cannot clear your fines or bounties.
• Hot ships can be cleaned using Interstellar Factors, at a cost.

On the mater of hot ships and modules, I can't help but thinking this is ridiculous. Basically, a Commander can switch to a clean ship, despite being a murderer, all fines and bounties are attached to the hot ship now docked (if scanned by an authority vessell, I guess the clean ship remains clean as the commander is not wanted). The only thing the Commander has attached to his is 'notoriety' - which clears by 1 unit every 2 hours. Meanwhile, the 'notorious' Commander can fly around in a clean ship for 20 hours (if noteriety is at 10), trading, participationg in Community Goals, etc., without any risk from the authorities. When the notoriety hits 0, the Commander can go and pay off the bounty, clean the hot ship and that's it... Financial loss only (probably minor financial impact, too).

What needs to happen is that if a Commander switches to a clean ship, the Commander, if scanned by an AUTHORITY vessels, is detected with notoriety - it becomes wanted in the clean ship (a human Commander able to claim all (or part - dependent on the current level of notoriety) bounties, etc., attached to the notorious Commander/ship - despite being in a clean ship). Meanwhile, the stored 'hot' ship remains 'hot' even if the notorious Commander in a clean ship is destroyed and respawned - unless and until that ship is cleaned. The clean ship the notorious Commander switches to should also become 'hot' if the Commander is sucessfully scanned by AUTHORITY vessels (not human players). If the notorious Commander is detected and scanned in a clean ship by a human Commander only, the ship should remain clean, but the human Commander is still able to attack - without becoming a criminal - and receive all/part bounties, etc.

Anyway, that's a few of my thoughts on the these matters. I expect that in the future, when the flaws in this new system are highlighted, Frontier will need to look at this again and try to repair the damage done. Implement these recommended changes now, or similar/better ideas, and it'll save us all a lot of pain in the long term.

Thanks.

As a late note, please keep in mind that certain Passenger Missions have passengers that are 'illegal'. It is necessary to avoid scans with such passengers on board. If scanned, the authorities either attack or fine - can't remember which. Thus, it makes sens that a notorious (illegal) Commander who switches to a clean ship should have to avoid all scans, or risk attack - either by the authorities or oher human players. Again, I'd suggest that a succesful scan by an authority vessel results in the clean ship with the notorious Commander inside becoming HOT.
 
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Hi. I've already had my first question answered, sort of, so I'd like to continue the discussion here.

Frontier, are you saying that we can have a hot fleet that only uses station services at anarchy stations, whilst simultaneously having a clean fleet that can operate anywhere?

Or will notoriety levels close off services for our clean ships also?

Furthermore, will notoriety cause loss of service access at anarchy stations?
I've had a read through the OP.

Okay, so I'm guessing the notoriety can be consequence of murder.

What if our crime is restricted to the illegal destruction of skimmers and power generators, or the piracy of ships without destroying the victims?
 
I've had a read through the OP.

Okay, so I'm guessing the notoriety can be consequence of murder.

What if our crime is restricted to the illegal destruction of skimmers and power generators, or the piracy of ships without destroying the victims?
It is my understanding that only Murder (NPC or CMDR) will create an uptick in Notoriety. Pirate, mug, rob, but no kill = no Notoriety.
 
It is my understanding that only Murder (NPC or CMDR) will create an uptick in Notoriety. Pirate, mug, rob, but no kill = no Notoriety.
Thanks. I do engage I criminal activity... But it rarely ends in a kill. I'm still not even halfway through Mostly Harmless.
 
Little fuzzy on how Interstellar Factors will work, because to my knowledge I have only seen them on small starports so large ships are pretty boned if that is the case. Overall seems like you have thought through most of the feedback previously put forward.
I've found many IFs in large starports too. In the current system, look in low security systems. I believe they are supposed to be more prevalent in 3.0, and Beyond...
 
I’m concerned about illegal missions, such as Surface Scan Missions , Spec ops, political assassinations, skimmer missions. I take a lot of time and trouble finding systems getting allied and spend about 90% of my game time engaging in pve criminal activities.

For example, the last political mission I did I dropped into the USS mission target threat level 4 , to find the target who was a clean deadly python, accompanied by two deadly clean escort ships...not really an issue. But the bug bear was the 4 system security ships , all ships were clean , and thus I ended up with a murder bounty on a 5 day timer and several assault charges before I killed my target and jumped clear.

Question is then, what would this one mission do to my notoriety level, and if I’m deliberately attacking system ships am I going to invoke the wrath of the ATR ships, and if so how will this effect my immediate standing in the system for further missions. I’m currently residing in a low security system next system to where I “play “ that has a universal charters, so in theory I should be able to clear the fines, after a cool down, but the wanted status stays until I’m killed and spawn in a detention center ?

Have I go this right ?
 
"Commanders gain a Notoriety rating, a value between zero and ten."

Please add names to each value, because numbers are boring. Such as:

1 Delinquent
2 Criminal
Yes, and we need plates for it

we have name plates, ID plates

we need Notoriety plates too

just to mention ...
 
I’m concerned about illegal missions,....

Have I go this right ?
Nobody said that this was Elite:Easy ;)

From what I read from the published information (I really hope Ed or Sandro will comment on this, though), you should get:
- 1 point of Notoriety for each ship you killed. Incentivises somewhat to focus on your mission target...
- the number that was discussed in the beta as a trigger for an ATR response was a bounty of around 2 MCr., but that was when the superpower bounties were still a thing. Apparently, they have disappeared now (pity -I liked them). Judging from the number of cops I usually encounter in a RES, I wouldn't think killing just four of them would trigger the ATR, but that's just my uninformed gut feeling.
I have no idea, though, whether your Notoriety level would in any way trigger the ATR.

Assuming you're still alive, you'll now have to wait (play, or at least logged in) for 14 hours until you can clear your bounties at the IF. You can switch to a clean ship, though, and avoid the unpleasantness of having a bounty on your ship (like being chased by bounty hunters or denied any services at the stations associated with the bounty issuing faction) for that period. Or you can simply avoid those ports where you're not welcome.

Once you've cleared the bounties at the IF, you're (or rather, your ship is) clean again, ready to commit new atrocities.
 
Per Ed's post: "Bounties are now more significant as you must use Interstellar Factors to clear them, which can be expensive."

My understanding from Sandro's post on 6 Feb was that IFs would no longer charge a premium to allow you to clear bounties or fines. Are you implying that it's expensive to use the IF because of you've reintroduced a premium to use them, or just because you have to pay off all the appropriate system bounties, etc?
 
I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly.
NPC murder bounties multiply notoriety and some percentage, and then multiply that by the attacker's full rebuy cost.
Player murder bounties multiply notoriety and 10%, and then multiply by the *difference* between attacker and victim's rebuy costs.

This makes it seem like player victims might generally incur *smaller* bounties than NPC victims, since the difference in rebuy costs will always be smaller than a full rebuy.
How small is the NPC factor compared to the live player 10% factor?
 
Way too complicated and impracticable. Dunno how this should make the game more fun. Why you don not give the players decent possibilities to solve issues themselves and playfully. Why this authority system from above?
 
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