David Braben: "Oculus Rift was integrated in the original game within a day"

I think its related to the fact that the 2D panel has to be positioned in the virtual 3D space according to how you move your head. A least a few milliseconds latency is unavoidable, and if you couple this with fast moving image - motion sickness.

I very seldom feel nauseous in my ship, but i need to drive carefully in the SVR.

I used to get motion sickness while driving the srv, when using the older oculus rift.
With the rift s somehow that's gone.
I love driving on low g planets, using the vertical thrusters, jumping on mountains.
It might have something to do with clearer picture of rift s or maybe I just got used to it.
 
Just to give you an idea how much more difficult FPS VR is to do properly. Half Life:Alex took 80 people almost 4 years to develop (According to Wikipedia). It's taken a team of similar size at FDev to come up with Odyssey without VR.
That was 5 years on an end to end development cycle i.e. from concept through to delivery. Frontier are/were much further along than that and largely don't have to worry about things like a storyboard/narrative for VR specifically, which is one of the benefits of an open world title.
 
That was 5 years on an end to end development cycle i.e. from concept through to delivery. Frontier are/were much further along than that and largely don't have to worry about things like a storyboard/narrative for VR specifically, which is one of the benefits of an open world title.

Yes and the Odyssey team will have had 2 and a half years of full production to bring us the New Era. That is probably about right for adding Elite Feet/Space Legs. In order, to get a full VR experience from there, you are probably looking at another six months to a year before VR is up to the same level of quality that we expect from Fdev. My point is people are vastly underestimating how difficult it is to put in VR FPS mechanics. It took NMS three years before VR was implemented with their version of Space Legs.

Personally, I would like to have Odyssey as soon as possible with a VR enhancement further down the line. I hope they will still work on it. That's the worry I've got, that they'll look at the effort involved and the possible return and then just say no.
 
Yes and the Odyssey team will have had 2 and a half years of full production to bring us the New Era. That is probably about right for adding Elite Feet/Space Legs. In order, to get a full VR experience from there, you are probably looking at another six months to a year before VR is up to the same level of quality that we expect from Fdev. My point is people are vastly underestimating how difficult it is to put in VR FPS mechanics. It took NMS three years before VR was implemented with their version of Space Legs.

Personally, I would like to have Odyssey as soon as possible with a VR enhancement further down the line. I hope they will still work on it. That's the worry I've got, that they'll look at the effort involved and the possible return and then just say no.
I have the same fear and the worst is that if they stop developing Odyssey for VR we won't have any other content in the future with vr as well
 
I think everyone, or almost, agrees that VR in FPS is a complete different beast.
My point instead is about enabling atmospheric planets and the new graphic tech for planets in Horizons after purchasing Odyssey to have all the new planets in VR (ship+SRV) and at the same time having Odyssey for a regular 2D gameplay (check my signature).
Full Legs integration can come at a later stage then.

There is no issue with facegun etc, but everyone i think agree even in FPS you do not want to remove headset from the head even for walking with wsad.

For me its a good to play on WSAD even with facegun (like Subnautica) its nothing wrong with it. True VR experience will be much better of course - like in No Mamn Sky - Possible? Possible. And they made it as an addition to something else.
 
There is no issue with facegun etc, but everyone i think agree even in FPS you do not want to remove headset from the head even for walking with wsad.

For me its a good to play on WSAD even with facegun (like Subnautica) its nothing wrong with it. True VR experience will be much better of course - like in No Mamn Sky - Possible? Possible. And they made it as an addition to something else.
I also want a full VR integration for odyssey. I wouldn't have issue to wait for 6-12 months as long as they confirm that it will arrive on that time frame and at the same time they enable atmospheric planets vr support through Horizons
 
Yes and the Odyssey team will have had 2 and a half years of full production to bring us the New Era. That is probably about right for adding Elite Feet/Space Legs. In order, to get a full VR experience from there, you are probably looking at another six months to a year before VR is up to the same level of quality that we expect from Fdev. My point is people are vastly underestimating how difficult it is to put in VR FPS mechanics. It took NMS three years before VR was implemented with their version of Space Legs.

Personally, I would like to have Odyssey as soon as possible with a VR enhancement further down the line. I hope they will still work on it. That's the worry I've got, that they'll look at the effort involved and the possible return and then just say no.
That doesn't explain the removal of the seated VR option from Odyssey does it? Apparently it only took 3 man days effort to introduce seated VR in 2014 and could have been retained by partitioning the experience for VR players from legs at the point you get out of the seat, which I assume is going to be a button press or menu selection to activate.

Sorry, I'm also not buying this mythical extra dev effort for a passable (it doesn't need to be industry breaking) VR experience in the FPS portion. I've seen a DX7 to 9 rendering conversion done by one man in 3 weeks and witnessed first hand the re-coding of the entire network code by another in a multi-player flight simulation, at least as complex as Elite Dangerous, done in 3 months. All whilst they held down day jobs which meant developing at home with families, alongside 17 other team members spread across timezones from eastern Europe to west coast Americas...
 
Sorry, I'm also not buying this mythical extra dev effort for a passable (it doesn't need to be industry breaking) VR experience in the FPS portion.
Here you go: recruitment@frontier.co.uk - I'm sure FDev will be delighted to here from a world class games developer such as yourself, deeply knowledgeable in building VR experiences in FPS and mixed mode games. All the best with your application!
 
2 team 2 differents story.
VR user : why steam page odysse miss VR
Frontier : not at launch (Aka certainly never)
VR user : claim / purpose / compromise
Frontier : Space is silence....

Asobo/ms : e3 teaser Microsoft flight simulator with ai autogenerated landscape
But no VR at launch
VR users : VR we want it
Asobo: ok we do the best now VR is a top priority for launch
 
Here you go: recruitment@frontier.co.uk - I'm sure FDev will be delighted to here from a world class games developer such as yourself, deeply knowledgeable in building VR experiences in FPS and mixed mode games. All the best with your application!
Can you go in to detail on the main differences that showing some virtual avatar of a human travelling around on foot vs sitting in a buggy and travelling around on wheels brings? What extra programming challenges are there that make this unachievable? They have shown they can do it modelling a buggy, to do it as a FPS you just need to alter the control scheme so it doesn't act like you're on wheels and change the character models/scale.
 
Can you go in to detail on the main differences that showing some virtual avatar of a human travelling around on foot vs sitting in a buggy and travelling around on wheels brings? What extra programming challenges are there that make this unachievable? They have shown they can do it modelling a buggy, to do it as a FPS you just need to alter the control scheme so it doesn't act like you're on wheels and change the character models/scale.
The things you mention there aren't the issue. Currently in Elite, I think most VR players are playing it sitting down and probably with a HOTAS on a desk in front of them. Some may have rudder pedals too. The typical VR FPS games I have seen expect the player to be standing up, and using VR hand controllers. So, Elite would either need to provide a mechanism for transistion the player from sitting in front of a desk to standing some clear area whilst changing controllers and wearing a VR headset. There is also the issue that the headset might not be optimally set up for when the player is seated and standing - my Rift only came with a single room sensor, and I need to adjust it if I change position like that (but something I could fix with an additional sensor, I guess). Or, alternative would be to handle "foot mode" with the player seated, which is also not a great player experience.

The second issue is motion sickness. I can handle flying the ship without issue. I need to be more careful in the SRV. Other VR experience where you can walk around are already a bit problematic, and running is terrible. Once approach is to have players teleport from location to location - this does seem to avoid the motion sickness issues, but its then problematic to put into a multiplayer games, especially one where many (indeed, most) players arent even using VR.
 
Which is why this update is so weird. Are flat screen + HOTAS users happy to switch to KB/M to control the FPS sections, what about if you're on a sim seat with the kb/mouse on a side keyboard tray or not in optimum position? This isn't just about VR this is about the ditching the regular control schemes that a lot of people currently use in order to force a game mechanic which isn't needed in a flight sim. What's next, will their next update alter the game into a turn based strategy war game to try and take over the Eve Online market?

As for the VR hand controllers and room sensors. I personally dislike them. I don't wish to be forced to stand up to play a game. Being forced to flail my arms around to do simple actions which can usually be done in a quick button press is the main reason I haven't touched No Man's Sky since the VR update, they refuse to update to allow me to use an xbox controller so I refuse to put any more time in to their game. I want to sit back and relax to game, not jump around my room.

The motion sickness thing passes with time. Sooner or later you'll realise you've just spent a couple of hours in VR with no ill effects.
 
Multiplayer FPS games with VR exist, and have for a while. Hell, I played a version of Minecraft modded to support VR a few years ago. If some random 3rd party can figure out how to make Minecraft work just fine in the first person in VR back in the earlier days of the vive, then I would hope a studio like FDev would be about to figure something out in the however-many years they've been working on space legs.
I hosted a demo with that for some autistic kids.
Thinking back, quite hilarious watching an eight year old start sprinting off with a vive strapped to his face until he is yanked back by the cables.

He of course wanted to pet the bunny.
 
We are somewhere just over 6 months from release, in dev terms it's not long at all.

They've already pushed back the release date, and given the decision to cut VR (for release) I suspect things are very tight right now.

If VR has to go back in (at any level) something's got to give right? Be it the release date, or other features. Zero sum game innit.
 

Craith

Volunteer Moderator
I would be fine with a definite statement that they will implement VR in Odyssey, right after launching it in pancake mode (after fixing the major bugs of the release of course). From what I got most VR Users would be ok with that (not happy of course. I am not happy either).

The problem is that we have only gotten an evasive answer, that in the past usually meant "Not anytime soon" (VR on PS4, multiple types of SRV, Multicrew enhancements, ...).
 
A lot of their decisions would be more palatable if the why s were explained, but senior management seems allergic to the idea. To talk about it, the CMs need both permission and somebody knowledgeable to help out.
 
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