Guide / Tutorial DCello's Science Guide to the Galaxy

It's more succinctly called propagation speed, but anyway...

The point I was getting at was that you're (probably unintentionally) implying in your section on mass/FSD interaction that a mass' gravitational effects can slow a ship's FSD down like it slows light down, but this is absolutely false because gravity has no such effect on light. Your comparison of that assertion to light moving through a medium is just confusing and as I explained that phenomenon is even less related. Comparing the effect in game to a truck trying to drive through increasingly deeper mud would have been no less accurate and a lot more accessible to people.

There's probably no need for that comparison to the propagation of light in the first place as it's already adequately explained that the presence of mass interferes with the FSD, causing ships get mass locked or have their top frameshift speed reduced as they move deeper into a gravity well. Either way simplifying the explanation is your goal.

You either misunderstood the Guide or I'm misunderstanding your position (it *is* pretty late right now) :)

There is no "light moving through the medium" in my explanation. Photon interaction really don't matter in my example because I'm dealing with gravitation.
Gravity bends the spacetime curvature. Light (which is not photons) "slows down" because although photons have zero rest mass, they have mass. As such, they are as subject to gravitation as any other mass particle. When light gets inside a gravity well, it follows the curvature of space time, taking slightly longer to its destination than if going in a straight line, effectively "slowing down" to whoever is observing it. This is important because as Einstein himself wrote it, the light speed is only constant to someone outside the gravitational field watching a light beam outside a gravitational field. For everyone else and every other light beam, light speed is relative, and can therefore slow down.

That's something called gravitational lensing, and you can calculate it's effects on light via gravitational potential with this:

eq1.jpg

Then, you can get the variable velocity of light expressed in coordinates:

eq2.jpg

Which you can then confirm the decreased speed of light in a gravitational field with:

eq3.jpg

Another important thing is that gravity can reduce the frequency of light, also affecting it's perceived speed. Photons really ain't all that, and regardless of propagation, the end result is that gravity appears to slow down light.
Which is the effect I mentioned affected the FSD drive. Gravity. :)
 
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...Sound is a wave. A wave is a specific frequency of electromagnetic radiation...

Minor nitpick. Sound is NOT similar to EM radiation in any sense. The two types of wave are fundamentally different. EM wave oscillations are (for want of a better way to put it) "perpendicular" to the vector along which the wave is propagating (since both the magenetic field strength and electrical field strength can be considered "perpendicular" to the x,y,z axes of "physical space" as a change in either does not imply a change in normal space position per se, although such a change may be an indirect consequence of how fields interact). Sound on the other hand, requires a sufficiently dense physical medium to propagate because it is a compression wave. The oscillations are aligned with the propagation vector and they propagate by direct physical interaction between the particles of that medium. In its most common 21st century application, both loudspeakers and microphones are devices that convert the oscillation of a given wave between these two orientations, enabling variations in in electromagnetic potential to be converted to displacements of the surrounding medium in xyz space and vice versa, the conversion being accomplished by the interaction of magnetic fields.

Everything else in the sound section works great for me though.
 
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So first: This is probably the best information about the ED multiverse. Actually in my opinion this is the reference.

So thank you for that, also big thank you for all the other participants for adding and clarifying information. It is really a great read and adds much depth to this game.

Multiverse you say? Yes you read right! ED has parallel universes (instances) which share the same physical laws and constants. The most strange thing about it is: whenever you start a new day or have a break you never know in which of the universes you return for new journeys.
Maybe you can elaborate about multiverses and how you could explain the differences to ED? :)

Also I would have a question which hopefully is not silly.
Regarding the FSD in supercruise: if the compression bubble greatly increases gravitational effects, wouldn't that affect other objects in space?

Anyway thanks so much!
 
So first: This is probably the best information about the ED multiverse. Actually in my opinion this is the reference.

So thank you for that, also big thank you for all the other participants for adding and clarifying information. It is really a great read and adds much depth to this game.

Multiverse you say? Yes you read right! ED has parallel universes (instances) which share the same physical laws and constants. The most strange thing about it is: whenever you start a new day or have a break you never know in which of the universes you return for new journeys.
Maybe you can elaborate about multiverses and how you could explain the differences to ED? :)

Also I would have a question which hopefully is not silly.
Regarding the FSD in supercruise: if the compression bubble greatly increases gravitational effects, wouldn't that affect other objects in space?

Anyway thanks so much!

No question is ever silly.
..weeell, actually some are, but anyway :D

No, it does not :) the compression "bubble" is generated around the ship, perfectly enveloping it -- unlike the Warp Drive or the Alcubierre, it does not maintains a portion of spacetime flat, therefore restricting all effects of the FSD only to the ship. It is also the most logical reason for why the shields are inactive while you supercruise -- two non-inertial fields occupying the same space would not be a good idea.

Regarding the multiverse, is that your theory for the instances? XD because I personally only ever considered them to be simply a game mechanic thing and all the same universe and dimension :)
 
I guess we could attribute jumping between universes to a side effect of the FSD. A problem arises though, as goods deposited and withdrawn from station cargo bays are distributed equally throughout the multiverse. Maybe the greatest minds of populated space came up with some transdimensional storage device, allowing goods to be accessed from any of the alternate universes. It would seem the FSD is not man's greatest scientific advance after all...:D
 
I guess we could attribute jumping between universes to a side effect of the FSD. A problem arises though, as goods deposited and withdrawn from station cargo bays are distributed equally throughout the multiverse. Maybe the greatest minds of populated space came up with some transdimensional storage device, allowing goods to be accessed from any of the alternate universes. It would seem the FSD is not man's greatest scientific advance after all...:D

Actually, there is no way we can explain that at all with Elite's technological level in a satisfactory manner. Jumping dimensions is hard, *very hard*. Even time travelling is peanuts to jumping dimensions, really (technically and theoretically).
 
Thank you! I am now going to go forth, start a new cult religion based entirely on your teachings, and set up orange sunglasses kiosks in every mall throughout the free world. All hail DCello!
 
Awesome thread DCello ... nice to see some more detailed descriptions on all the concepts.
Since starting Elite I've definitely learned stellar classifications but some of the other aspects discussed here are very nicely described.
 
I'm experiencing a drop in structural integrity above the neck line..

/me staggers away.

Heh, cute.

Awesome thread DCello ... nice to see some more detailed descriptions on all the concepts.
Since starting Elite I've definitely learned stellar classifications but some of the other aspects discussed here are very nicely described.

Thank you ^^ I quite like how the game tries to ground itself in reality instead of just making stuff up -- as long as they keep being faithful to their own rules, we will keep having a realistic and consistent universe. That also has the side effect of making people curious about how our current world (supposedly) works, expanding everyone's knowledge and horizons -- which is always a good thing. :)
 
As a certain character would say "Fascinating".

Unlike a certain character I fully understood only a fraction of it! :) I'm off reading the wikipedia pages on Quantum mechanics, string theory and subspace now! The "pop" of my brain will probably be heard for miles!
 
As a certain character would say "Fascinating".

Unlike a certain character I fully understood only a fraction of it! :) I'm off reading the wikipedia pages on Quantum mechanics, string theory and subspace now! The "pop" of my brain will probably be heard for miles!

Be aware tho with wikipedia that you oughta read the sources - wikipedia in itself is a bunch of errors - often right, but equally often misguided/wrong.
 
Thanks for taking the time to do this, I really appreciate that this guide exists!

Thanks!

As a certain character would say "Fascinating".

Unlike a certain character I fully understood only a fraction of it! :) I'm off reading the wikipedia pages on Quantum mechanics, string theory and subspace now! The "pop" of my brain will probably be heard for miles!

Be aware tho with wikipedia that you oughta read the sources - wikipedia in itself is a bunch of errors - often right, but equally often misguided/wrong.

I'm glad the Guide made you curious enough to research the subject! :cool:

But as Ani said, careful with wikipedia. Wikipedia is great for basic concepts, but it doesn't cover any of the nuances, and that's where people get stuff wrong - the quantum physics field is remarkably counter-intuitive to the human mind.

That being said, good luck with your curiosity, and don't be afraid to admit you don't know or ask someone if you're having trouble understanding something :)

Oh, and remember the opening quote in the Guide, courtesy of Douglas Adams: "the universe is a lot more complicated than you might think, even if you start from a position of thinking it's pretty damn complicated in the first place.” :)
 
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Excellent writing. I am absolutely not a researcher but I had fun browsing around wikipedia last days looking for pretty much the same topics. Your guide sums up pretty much everything (and adds a lot to it)... and it's extremely enjoyable and fun to read.
Kudos +100
 
I always wondered... If I turned on the ship lights while travelling exactly 1c, how will that light look from my perspective inside the ship, and from an observer watching me fly by?

Also I read somewhere that the Galaxy and all its contents are moving at a pretty fast speed - does that mean instead of everything being pretty stationary like it is in the game, would we actually have to match trajectory when we do even a simple task such as docking (like trying to throw something into the window of a passing train)?
 
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