Death and Legs
- Thread starter SlouchMonster
- Start date
I didn't say it wasn't possible, just unlikely.
Death or being incapacitated should be something undesirable. If all you do is wake up in your ship at full health, then nobody will care if you die or not. It needs to mean something if it doesn't it becomes a pointless mechanic and risks will become non-risks. I don't like that.
With your SRV out in the black, you destroy it, yep you return to your ship, but you have lost your SRV for good. It has a consequence. If you die on foot and then wake up in your ship at full health, that equals zero consequences. That's just bad in my view.
It was just a dream.
The players happy with the "magic escape pod" are the ones who have chosen it as their least objectionable explanation for a necessary continuity break. It's not lore; the manual only mentions escape pods once, and that's in relation to passenger cabins. Other players apply different salves to this particular itch, or just accept that it's a necessary consequence of playing a game in which rogue-like permadeath is not currently an option other than through choice.
The best policy IMO. Even with a clean slate there is no single keep-everyone-happy solution, other than ironman permadeath, to dealing with in-game deaths in a multiplayer environment. Eve's cloning system works well for Eve but there are still some players who only accept it grudgingly. With Elite you were already dealing with a universe with nearly three decades of history across three quite different games (more if you count subtly altered conversions), official fiction and manuals. There was already inconsistency. ED threw out some of that lore (although good luck finding an authoritative list of what is and isn't still canon) and retconned a lot of it, but also in an internally inconsistent way.
Trying to come up with something that joins all the dots without provoking a collective "Huh?" from at least some of the players is an impossible challenge. The fact that FD thought "telepresence" and "3D printing" were appropriate catch-alls for some of the issues demonstrates either how difficult this is, or how bad they are at it, possibly both.
Let's be honest, you're just going to fade from black back in the pilot's or driver's seat. Anything else will require new code and new lore to support it, and I just don't see FD bothering.
That's not a suggestion of laziness, just practicality. The "resurrection" mechanic is already there. It happens every time we crash an SRV. No point in reinventing the wheel unless new gameplay comes along with it, and while self-administering medical care in a sickbay would be kinda cool the first couple of times, I'd imagine many players would quickly tire of it especially if repeated deaths/injuries were caused by PVP. Players just want to accept the loss, respawn and carry on. The game already supports that for SRVs. Unless FD have come up with something radical none of us has thought of, I see no reason not to use the same thing for spacelegs.
To prevent accusations of explorers being effectively immortal until their ship explodes, EVAs in hostile environments could mandate the use of EVA suits (or air / bio filters for Earth-like worlds) that are limited in the same way that SRVs and SLFs are limited. You only have a fixed number, and lose one every time you take a tumble down an alien mountain, are crushed by an errant asteroid while doing hull repairs, or get munched on by a xenoraptor. Run out of suits/filters and there are no more spacelegs for you until you restock.
Wouldn't be surprised if they went down the route of Ken Macleod's Corporation Wars trilogy, where you perceive yourself wearing some kind of powered suit, but actually that's just a simulated part of the experience fed to your mind in order to make controlling the humanoid robots a smoother experience.
They could well implement it like horizons - you need a "remlok" module in your ship to space walk, similar to that module (planetary approach?) that comes in horizons ships. When you die one slot gets used up. Out of slots? No walkie for you.
(Seems jack schitt makes much the same point, but I'd typed mine by the time he posted
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Everyone wakes up in the shower*, Dallas style.
*Not the same shower, all at once, calm down.
They could change the death mechanic for life support death too. There's been lots of talk elsewhere on the forums about exploring abandoned/failed outposts/mega ships/colony ships etc. how about finding a ship out in the black that'd run out of fuel. It's fine just powered down and has an unlucky commander in the pilots seat, or the ships damaged and the commander can be found in the reactor room, having died trying to get the power back on. Dark corridors, stuck doors that have to be powered by portable battery packs, only a flash light to guide your way. Personally I'd love that as game play.
I don't like that idea either. I much prefer the idea that you wake up in the nearest station infirmary and have to pay for your hospital and towage fees. How those fees are calculated is open to debate though. I think I would prefer a set price depending on size of your ship (you never actually die).They could well implement it like horizons - you need a "remlok" module in your ship to space walk, similar to that module (planetary approach?) that comes in horizons ships. When you die one slot gets used up. Out of slots? No walkie for you.
(Seems jack schitt makes much the same point, but I'd typed mine by the time he posted
There are consequences to your death/incapacity. To me that makes sense. When you are in your SRV and you have space legs, have it that you eject from your SRV and land on the planet. You can then call your ship. If you don't have space legs, you fade to black and appear in your ship (your ship homes in on your escape pod and picks you up).
Seems to me to be a much more elegant and easy solution to implement with added consequences too. All they need to do is build an infirmiry set which is added to the PG algorithm for when the insides of stations are put together. The rest will be similar to your rebuy and should be pretty simple to add in as they are virtually the same as current mechanics (ship destruction).
Not to sure why people are going on about holo-me and telepresence. Surely there will be no telepresence emitters on planet surfaces when exploring on foot.
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Not much you like is there
Your idea is horrible - someone out exploring at BP, has a mishap and ends up ... in Colonia. Where if they were in the SRV they end up ... in their ship
There is plenty I like. I just don't like mechanics that have zero consequences.Not much you like is there
Your idea is horrible - someone out exploring at BP, has a mishap and ends up ... in Colonia. Where if they were in the SRV they end up ... in their ship
Maybe if you accidently have a misshap in your ship and it gets destroyed we should have it magically appear in orbit around the nearest planet of the system you were in so there are no consequences. Maybe we should just get rid of ship destruction entirely and have indestructable ships. God forbide that we have some consequence to our actions.
The mechanic is fine, as it is exactly the same as the current ship destruction mechanic, or do you find that horrible too?
Hah - not falling for that one - I've seen your circular arguments on here before. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to play with you
They are not circular arguments. I am just using your own justification on the other mechanics in the game which are virtually identical.Hah - not falling for that one - I've seen your circular arguments on here before. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to play with you
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ
Robots
I think we will have places where we can't simply die (starports, ships) and all the rest of the dangerous galaxy (in space, on planets, combat scenario).
Where we can't die we go aroung with our real body.
In dangerous places there will be a clone controlled remotely (kind of Avatar movie). When the Avatar dies it's lost, so you're back to the ship and you have to initialize another one if you want to leave the ship again.
We have a stock quantity of these avatars and when they're over we can synthesize more or re-fill them at stations.
Where we can't die we go aroung with our real body.
In dangerous places there will be a clone controlled remotely (kind of Avatar movie). When the Avatar dies it's lost, so you're back to the ship and you have to initialize another one if you want to leave the ship again.
We have a stock quantity of these avatars and when they're over we can synthesize more or re-fill them at stations.
This can cover only some kind of death, but not all.
Imagine a Thargoid smash you in tiny pieces or you fall into a volcano and Palpatine is not there to rescue you...
Same rules apply as if your ship gets destroyed. You fall towards a star and overheat and your ship explodes, there is no way for anyone to rescue you and your escape capsule shouldn't survive either due to the heat, if your escape capsule survives, surely your ship would have too, but you still arrive at the local station.
It's not really about realism or being realistic. It's about consequences to your actions. Learning from your mistakes etc.
It's easier and makes more sense then just appearing inside your ship without any consequnces. No consequences, no danger, no learning from your mistakes. For me it's just bad all round.
That sounds great, but between the design requirements for new assets and mechanics, and the general lack of persistence in the current engine, I fear it's a long shot. Not impossible, but if five years watching this game develop has taught me anything it's to aim a little lower in my expectations. I'd love for 2020 to deliver a surprise update of Horizons-esque impact, but my confidence is not high.
Not saying I'm happy with either of these, just that there's precedent in the genre. Given the mess of Holo-Mes, telepresence and 3D printing it would not shock me in the least if FD went down this route TBH. But hey, FD gonna FD so we'll see what happens. But please, not the clones. Anything but the clones. The vastness of an uncaring universe will lose all meaning for me unless I can believe in some way that it's me out there, not some disposable fleshbag.
I want to live, not merely survive. And I won't give up this dream of life that keeps me alive. I gotta be me.