Death penalty thoughts

CorvenDallas

CorvenDallas
I was wondering that, giving that money is not a problem past some point of playing, the fact of dying having enough money for rebuy makes the game less changelling, and in case of the "bad guys" not suffering a noticeable penalty for his/her evil deeds, also in name of common sense I want you to discuss what do you thing about this points:

Insurance Yes, Rebuy No
- Short history, when you are killed you got the value of your ship in creds, but you dont have possibility of rebuy.
- Long history: Having lots of money means that once you get a fully fitted ship that fits your needs, you don't have to do all engineering and stuff again, THAT would be the real penalty, also if you get killed, lets say, at Sag A*, you respawn at the station, but have to buy WHATEVER IS AVAILABLE THERE, in case of Sag A* there is no Shipyard there, so that's an issue, maybe respawning is restricted to stations with shipyard, or maybe you got a naked model of the ship, or an unengineered one.

I thought about it because, as if you got killed on deep space, respawned in Sag A*, where the hell the insurance got a ship like yours? Don't should the station provide only ships/modules available there?

Im aware that this would affect good guys griefed by pirates, but this is the meaning of "Dangerous" in the game title, the option of PG or Solo is always there for those who want a more relaxed gameplay. These could be scaled in order of your notoriety, if you got killed by a NPC or a Player, maybe the security level of the sector (better security better insurance service)

Thoughts?

EDIT:
Other ideas that come up along the posts:

- OK to Rebuy BUT your ship is hosted in a system according to his value, you respawn with a basic ship in nearest station, the fact of dying in deep space and being on Sag A with a sidewinder. or similar "I cant go anywhere now" situation should be addressed, but that's whats the forum for.

- Timer for recovering ship: As there is a timer for your ship to be moved between stations, there should be a similar one taking into account 1.- Distance from a proper shipyard to your current location, 2.- Level of engineering of modules, Im thinking in time between 10 minutes to 24 hours (long distance + heavy engineering), you know bureaucracy...

/+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/
Insurance clauses:

Player Vs Player case:
Player attack me first:
option 1) He kill me -> for me money + full rebuy
option 2.1) I kill him -> for him full money + full rebuy with a cooldown of X weeks, of course respawn in a station with available resources for the rebuild (medium penalty)
option 2.2) I kill him -> for him full money + full rebuy with cooldown of X weeks for the respawn meanwhile ban permit of Founders World and Engineers. (high penalty)

WingA vs WingB case: Taken the wing as an unit
Wing B member start attacking:
option 1) B Killed a member of the A -> for A full money + full rebuy
option 2.1) A Killed a member of B -> for B full money + full rebuy with a cooldown of X weeks, of course respawn in a station with available resources for the rebuild (medium penalty)
option 2.2) A Killed a member of B -> for B full money + full rebuy with cooldown of X weeks for the respawn meanwhile ban permit of Founders World and Engineers. (high penalty)
/+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/
 
Last edited:

CorvenDallas

CorvenDallas
So once you got the badass flying ship of 733t d4ng3r0us, whats the point of playing without real risk?

The grind could be adjusted to be less heavy according to these rules, comment it too
 

CorvenDallas

CorvenDallas
One more idea:

OK to Rebuy BUT your ship is hosted in a system according to his value, you respawn with a basic ship in nearest station, the fact of dying in deep space and being on Sag A with a sidewinder. or similar "I cant go anywhere now" situation should be addressed, but that's whats the forum for.

That fits very well with "Sir, we found you floating in escape pod in space, you insurance company have your replace ship in XXX, here are the keys of your courtesy ship"
 
Last edited:

CoyoteXStarrk

CoyoteXStarrk
That would certainly increase the risk, but it would be far too steep of a penalty. People spends dozens of hours farming engineering materials in order to get their builds JUST RIGHT. And if you made them lose all of it over a single death? They would riot.


And you also can't have such a severe penalty in a game where there are currently cheaters and a game where (let's be honest) isn't always entirely stable.
 
Last edited:

Vardaugas

Vardaugas
Could as well give the player a timeout (for the ship) of three months until the insurance claim gets through all the red tape. And add in a rescue fee from S&R and a delay for the travel time and how long it took to find your pod until you can be active again.

Really, don't turn death penalties into real game enders.
 

CorvenDallas

CorvenDallas
Vardaugas said:
Could as well give the player a timeout (for the ship) of three months until the insurance claim gets through all the red tape. And add in a rescue fee from S&R and a delay for the travel time and how long it took to find your pod until you can be active again.

Really, don't turn death penalties into real game enders.
Click to expand...

Is a great idea, I was discussing it on telegram right now, as there is a timer for your ship to be moved between stations, there should be a similar one taking into account 1.- Distance from a proper shipyard to your current location, 2.- Level of engineering of modules, Im thinking in time between 10 minutes to 24 hours (long distance + heavy engineering), you know bureaucracy...
 

CorvenDallas

CorvenDallas
Agony_Aunt said:
Play for fun. If you seek risk, you can get into PvP, or fly something smaller. Nobody is forcing you to fly a god machine of death. Get in a Cobra and see if you feel so risk free.
Click to expand...
I dont have such ship, but just want to throw some ideas around, is clear that lots of things should/could be fixed, just my 2 cents for things like inmersion/realism/challenge
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
I do quite a bit of PvP now (and I'm not a murderer, before you say something!), most of the PvP community play with crimes off, mainly because security are so g annoying it's better to just not have them.
Instead, we rely on an outside app called EDR.
This logs CMDR outlaw/lawful status much better than the current crime system does.
So what can end up happening is, from the games point of view, I'm attacking a clean CMDR, who is an outlaw on EDR.
So if they have crimes on, I get a bounty, even though I'm trying to take down a known outlaw(on EDR).
If I fail, and explode, which is my usual outcome (I'm not very good. Lol), under your proposal I'd lose everything.
And I've spent months building my 1 and only PvP capable ship.
That's simply not an acceptable punishment. Lol
Even for an outlaw, who is playing the game exactly as intented, that's not a suitable punishment.

The crime part of C&P needs an overhaul (again) because it's simply not effective.
EDR should be built in to the game, and security response should be optional, but insanely more effective if you request it.
 

CorvenDallas

CorvenDallas
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead said:
I do quite a bit of PvP now (and I'm not a murderer, before you say something!), most of the PvP community play with crimes off, mainly because security are so g annoying it's better to just not have them.
Instead, we rely on an outside app called EDR.
This logs CMDR outlaw/lawful status much better than the current crime system does.
So what can end up happening is, from the games point of view, I'm attacking a clean CMDR, who is an outlaw on EDR.
So if they have crimes on, I get a bounty, even though I'm trying to take down a known outlaw(on EDR).
If I fail, and explode, which is my usual outcome (I'm not very good. Lol), under your proposal I'd lose everything.
And I've spent months building my 1 and only PvP capable ship.
That's simply not an acceptable punishment. Lol
Even for an outlaw, who is playing the game exactly as intented, that's not a suitable punishment.

The crime part of C&P needs an overhaul (again) because it's simply not effective.
EDR should be built in to the game, and security response should be optional, but insanely more effective if you request it.
Click to expand...
Want to know more about that EDR you talk about

What about the other options? (timer for recovering based on distance / engineer level)
 
Last edited:

RexKraemer

RexKraemer
This would kill PvP.
I do not like PvP (because I am noob), but I respect that it is fun for others. Therefor "No" from my side :)
 

CorvenDallas

CorvenDallas
RexKraemer said:
This would kill PvP.
I do not like PvP (because I am noob), but I respect that it is fun for others. Therefor "No" from my side :)
Click to expand...

I think most of you stop on my initial idea, there are others (timer for recovering ship) and posted by others that are interesting

@[DAX] why Im a troll? :(
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
I never had more fun in game since the new void opal boom makes rebuys basically irrelevant.
I don't need a second work, I play for fun.
Therefore I love having no real consequences ingame.
 

Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
I still don't understand why criminals can still get "insurance". But in the interest of fairness the whole c&p malarky needs to be redone with a complete addition of proper criminal/pirate gameplay complete with pirate bases (that bounty hunters can raid), weapons for quick disabling (not killing), quick cargo collection and specific missions for criminals.
 

CorvenDallas

CorvenDallas
I have in mind a successful game like EVE and how it deals with dying and penalty, what do you think about it? It also requires a high grind and death could report heavy losses, why do you think it became so successful? (really asking)
 

necrolord

necrolord
CorvenDallas said:
I was wondering that, giving that money is not a problem past some point of playing, the fact of dying having enough money for rebuy makes the game less changelling, and in case of the "bad guys" not suffering a noticeable penalty for his/her evil deeds, also in name of common sense I want you to discuss what do you thing about this points:

Insurance Yes, Rebuy No
- Short history, when you are killed you got the value of your ship in creds, but you dont have possibility of rebuy.
- Long history: Having lots of money means that once you get a fully fitted ship that fits your needs, you don't have to do all engineering and stuff again, THAT would be the real penalty, also if you get killed, lets say, at Sag A*, you respawn at the station, but have to buy WHATEVER IS AVAILABLE THERE, in case of Sag A* there is no Shipyard there, so that's an issue, maybe respawning is restricted to stations with shipyard, or maybe you got a naked model of the ship, or an unengineered one.

I thought about it because, as if you got killed on deep space, respawned in Sag A*, where the hell the insurance got a ship like yours? Don't should the station provide only ships/modules available there?

Im aware that this would affect good guys griefed by pirates, but this is the meaning of "Dangerous" in the game title, the option of PG or Solo is always there for those who want a more relaxed gameplay. These could be scaled in order of your notoriety, if you got killed by a NPC or a Player, maybe the security level of the sector (better security better insurance service)

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I propose an few insurance clauses:

Player Vs Player case:
Player attack me first:
option 1) He kill me -> for me money + full rebuy
option 2.1) I kill him -> for him full money + full rebuy with a cooldown of X weeks, of course respawn in a station with available resources for the rebuild (medium penalty)
option 2.2) I kill him -> for him full money + full rebuy with cooldown of X weeks for the respawn meanwhile ban permit of Founders World and Engineers. (high penalty)

WingA vs WingB case: Taken the wing as an unit
Wing B member start attacking:
option 1) B Killed a member of the A -> for A full money + full rebuy
option 2.1) A Killed a member of B -> for B full money + full rebuy with a cooldown of X weeks, of course respawn in a station with available resources for the rebuild (medium penalty)
option 2.2) A Killed a member of B -> for B full money + full rebuy with cooldown of X weeks for the respawn meanwhile ban permit of Founders World and Engineers. (high penalty)
 

Morbad

Morbad
This is essentially the system Jumpgate had.

Nothing was replaced, you just had an insurance rating, with just under 1.00 being the maximum possible, and it decreased every time you lost a ship (to creep back up slowly if you went long periods without an escape pod ride). This rating determined the fraction of the value you got back from insurance. You were then responsible for reoutfitting yourself, either from storage, or from tracking down parts other ways. Precollapse artifacts (that game's equivalent of Engineered modules) were simply lost.

I thought it was great (despite, or perhaps because of, loosing dozens or hundreds of hours of time spent salvaging those pre-collapse parts the first time I tried to use them), but Jumpgate was super niche, and I don't image most Elite: Dangerous players are looking for real consequences for their mistakes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom