Can we expect a Dev Update on Crime&Punishment before the PS4 release?
Deliberate Ramming
- Thread starter shadragon
- Start date
Can we expect a Dev Update on Crime&Punishment before the PS4 release?
Hi Sandro
A simple fix for the moment is to only make it a crime for the ship traveling fastest.
So if one ship is not speeding, the speeding ship gets the blame as is the case now.
But if both ships are speeding, only the fastest ship gets the blame.
Since you're already checking speeds to assign crimes (for the 100m/s limit) this should be simple to implement.
And it means you can't just boost a Sidewinder into a ship traveling at 110m/s to give them a murder charge, because on impact you'll be going faster.
You could still grief under this rule, but it will be tricker, as the griefers who currently just whack the boost key before impact will now just get the blame for such impacts, not their victim. Sure, you could speed in front of your victim and then stop in front of them, but this is quite a bit trickier and easier to avoid.
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I had an idea a while back, and recently, that if we had a 'up or down vote rep' system, you could only use it on CMDRs you've had contact with, like shooting, collisions, wings, multicrew, etc.
Not just fly around down voting random strangers.
I did include two way communication as a rule aswel, but there's nothing to stop you flying around Mobius (very chatty private group) saying "o7" to everyone, getting a response, and then down voting them. Lol
Going off topic now though. Lol
Hello Commander clinton!
I'm not convinced of the robustness of such a system as it's still very blunt and yet potentially open to even more manipulation than the 100 m/s rule. As I stated, this rule works only because it's a lot harder to cause damage at such slow speeds (and even then it's not infallible).
I would wager that skilled pilots could intercept folk even when travelling at slightly slower speeds, and cause significant damage (and the heavier the ship you can do this in, the more chaos you can cause). Again, for me it comes down to intent. Speed does not necessarily signal intent.
I'm not convinced of the robustness of such a system as it's still very blunt and yet potentially open to even more manipulation than the 100 m/s rule. As I stated, this rule works only because it's a lot harder to cause damage at such slow speeds (and even then it's not infallible).
I would wager that skilled pilots could intercept folk even when travelling at slightly slower speeds, and cause significant damage (and the heavier the ship you can do this in, the more chaos you can cause). Again, for me it comes down to intent. Speed does not necessarily signal intent.
from my experience, DC does only activate at slow speeds (not very slow), but its lacking a bit of a fuzzy-logic around the max distance it is allowed to use the afterburner,
especially with supermassive ships like the T9.
a karma system needs to be implemented ASAP. Beeing marked as wanted criminal for a stray shot of a pair of burst laser (how had the idea that the limit for accidental hits has to be 3?) is unacceptable.
So being marked as a criminal for assaulting a ship is unacceptable...?
Oh no: I'm going to be in the malicious parking fine trend bucket! I always forget to ask for docking request :|
Serial offender; racking up those parking fines!
Hi Sandy,
Thanks for your feedback.
From personal experience, on multiple ships, if you hit boost then immediately zero throttle, the DC kicks in. The scenario where you can deliberately target someone with a ram then turn on the DC just before impact is a real one. Hard to time, but very possible.
My whole concept was to have a series of parameters. The more that are ticked, the higher the possibility of malicious play. When tied into long-term stat gathering as you mentioned, that paints a picture of the player. If the DC is left as a universal "Get out of jail free" card when used, then it will be used to circumvent any Karma system and nothing will change from today.
Cheers.
That's too simple.
You'll confuse people with basics like that.
We need 11 flow charts and spreadsheet to monitor while we dock, otherwise it's an arcade game y'know.
YES! Please introduce a karma system sooner rather than later.
If possible, can this (or a separate/similar system) include a distinction between "in-game this commander is a bit naughty" and "this player engages in anti-social behaviour we as a community want to discourage". Falling to the former category would be things like Piracy and Murder. Falling in to the latter category is anything which breaches the TOS but also other actions like the recently seen/addressed "joining a multi-crew ship, expending all the heatsinks and/or SCBs, laughing and leaving".
I realise that this distinction will be very hard to make with an automated system but I am hoping that with the collection of enough data points and some sort of pattern recognition/analysis it might be possible to identify players whose behaviour routinely falls into the latter category. If that behaviour can then be said to violate the TOS Frontier could then take action to discourage it. I'm not talking about in-game bounties/cr losses as I see these as being ineffective deterrents in these cases. Instead, warnings (in the form of emails) which if ignored result in a ban from Open play for some length of time. An increased ban period for subsequent infractions, perhaps even going as far as a permanent ban.
I can understand that some might see this as overly harsh but I feel that the sorts of behaviour which would warrant the reaction I'm suggesting are currently harming the community and game as a whole. Banning players is effectively a "digital prison" of sorts and it seems, to me, the right place to put people who are actually a danger to our digital society.
There seems to be some sound ideas there.
I think that with the ramming trick, the station should recognise, my rank and reputation, how often I have ramming in my history and tell the offender that 'Commander Arry' could not be a fault. of such an error of flying; so you can just pay for your own re-buy and he will be landing uninterrupted; thank you'.
I think that with the ramming trick, the station should recognise, my rank and reputation, how often I have ramming in my history and tell the offender that 'Commander Arry' could not be a fault. of such an error of flying; so you can just pay for your own re-buy and he will be landing uninterrupted; thank you'.
Hello Commander nrage!
Discerning naughty from undesirable would really be such a system's prime function.
so, to spitball a little, here are some potential examples:
* Attacking a wanted ship, no matter how overpowered you were compared to it, would be fine
* Attacking a clean ship when massively overpowered would get minor bad karma
* Repeatedly attacking clean ships that you massively overpowered would get you major bad karma
* Stealing cargo from a clean ship would be fine.
* Being involved in an occasional starport collision would gain you minor bad karma
* Being repeatedly involved in starport collisions over time would get you major bad karma
* Occasionally disconnecting ungracefully in danger would be fine
* Repeatedly disconnecting ungracefully in danger over time would get you major bad karma
* Attacking starports as crew would get you major bad karma
This sort of thing.
Such a system might not be perfectly right in very instance, but punitive measures would increase based on trends over time, which in the end become fairly accurate indicators of intent.
In general, we want to minimise out of game intervention. However, that does not mean that punitive measures would be toothless. We could make life *very* challenging, in ways we currently have not employed, for repeat offenders.
But please remember, as of this moment, this is just discussion, and although we have very positive vibes, there's currently no ETA or guarantee for such a system's arrival.
Discerning naughty from undesirable would really be such a system's prime function.
so, to spitball a little, here are some potential examples:
* Attacking a wanted ship, no matter how overpowered you were compared to it, would be fine
* Attacking a clean ship when massively overpowered would get minor bad karma
* Repeatedly attacking clean ships that you massively overpowered would get you major bad karma
* Stealing cargo from a clean ship would be fine.
* Being involved in an occasional starport collision would gain you minor bad karma
* Being repeatedly involved in starport collisions over time would get you major bad karma
* Occasionally disconnecting ungracefully in danger would be fine
* Repeatedly disconnecting ungracefully in danger over time would get you major bad karma
* Attacking starports as crew would get you major bad karma
This sort of thing.
Such a system might not be perfectly right in very instance, but punitive measures would increase based on trends over time, which in the end become fairly accurate indicators of intent.
In general, we want to minimise out of game intervention. However, that does not mean that punitive measures would be toothless. We could make life *very* challenging, in ways we currently have not employed, for repeat offenders.
But please remember, as of this moment, this is just discussion, and although we have very positive vibes, there's currently no ETA or guarantee for such a system's arrival.
Does disconnecting mean logging out with the timer or is plug-pulling/task-killing included?
Note the term "Disconnecting Ungracefully" this implies pulling the cord. The "graceful" exit through the menu would still perfectly fine, even though it can be used in the same way...
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So how could 'Karma' be defined in such a game as Elite? Hypothetically of course.
Yeah, just wanted to make extra sure, because Sandro rarely talks about mechanics that punish combat loggers. It's nice to see they have something planned.