Maybe - but I have a system with 22k pop (HIP 93722 only has 17k), so I would have expected my Outpost to also have Refinery if that was the only influence on economies spreading.
"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.
- Thread starter Ian Doncaster
- Start date
I've had my ice moon with 2 refinery hubs and a t1 ground port since the first few days of the beta. At first the two hubs flipped the system economy to refinery but the week after it flipped to colony with no mention of refinery. At no point did the t1 port report any trace of refinery influence. I'm still waiting. It's a terrible feeling to not know if I did something wrong or if the system is just bugged and not working. I have a 2nd system with nothing but an Ind outpost and it's full of big HMC worlds, but I don't want to touch it until I know I won't be wasting my time blindly hoping that get a refinery influence working.
I can add more supporting evidence to this. Last night I completed my security installation. That brings my system up to a 8 on security. I then started building a Coriolis which is -2 security. This morning I took a peek and the system went from low to medium security along with a population increase.
From the graphic having 10 arrows on security as a possibility my system being at 6 would be about the middle so medium security makes sense. I did not see the change to the system security until overnight so I think it adjusts on the daily tick after a construction is finished. Going to super cruise and even leaving the system for another after construction completion didn't change anything for security level or population count.
Furthermore it appears an increase happens on construction finish but a decrease may happen on construction start. I say this because otherwise I would have had 8 security and that might have put it into the high level. It could also be as you say and only maxing the value gets a high level. I would think that wouldn't be the case because almost any outpost or starport would drop the level. Unless you go over the max, which seems to be effort but no reward, it would be hard to keep high security. Stranger things have happened though.
More to learn but seems some things are being narrowed in on.
This does at least suggest something to do with Colonisation happens at the weekly restart. Hope it's not 3 hours every week from now ...
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I got a single-star system with a neat name in the Lyonesse system, but only 1 building slot. I put a coriolis station in because the T3 with ringworld segments feel like rotisserie that close to the star. It has a Power Play and Interstellar Factors contact if that info is relevant here.
I want to get a shipyard in the system, so from what I've read I want to get the system's tech level from 3 to 6. I've got 3 options and 1 shot, so I want to get the most out of it. Getting the station to sell anything other than biowaste would be great, but station services are the top priority.
T1, Orbital, +3 Tech Level:
Industrial Outpost: Industrial Economy, +2 Development Level (4)
Scientific Outpost: HighTech Economy
Communication Station: +1 Security (-1)
Any thoughts?
Edit
I just realized I've been looking at the Asteroid Base stats. I can only get the system up to 4 tech so a shipyard may be out of reach.
I want to get a shipyard in the system, so from what I've read I want to get the system's tech level from 3 to 6. I've got 3 options and 1 shot, so I want to get the most out of it. Getting the station to sell anything other than biowaste would be great, but station services are the top priority.
T1, Orbital, +3 Tech Level:
Industrial Outpost: Industrial Economy, +2 Development Level (4)
Scientific Outpost: HighTech Economy
Communication Station: +1 Security (-1)
Any thoughts?
Edit
I just realized I've been looking at the Asteroid Base stats. I can only get the system up to 4 tech so a shipyard may be out of reach.
Last edited:
So you only had two building slots total in your system? I wonder what controls that? I haven't looked at that many but I think the 1-body systems I glanced at generally had four slots available.
Correct, primary port + 1. Most of the small systems I saw had a primary port and 0-3 construction sites per star. The only time I saw 0 was a single star system with only the primary port available. I've had my eye on a system with 5 stars, a primary port, and 13 more construction sites. That should be just enough to get a 2nd T3 port in it.
From what i read so far my assumption is that +10 or more = high security. Need to test that, though.
I have a Coriolis and a Communication Station, among other things, the comms station gives +3 Tech Level and my Coriolis got the shipyard up and running after the comms station was completed.
Okay, a basic question here - do we have a comprehensive list of colonized systems at this point? I'd tend to think that by now approximately all of the newly inhabited systems have been visited (not necessarily docked at) by someone sending data to EDDN, so it ought to be possible to pull them out?
You mean of the 8000?
Nope.
Dropping this here. I posted this elsewhere.
For those of you concerned about how to build a system. I had refused to expand my system until I knew more myself. I did some digging and In the Elite Wiki I found this explanation. Now I believe that materials will "spawn" as a part of the game economy itself but you can likely influence for more specific materials of higher value? So here is what I found and I will follow up by simplifying it:
"Each economy supports each other with their commodities. Knowing where each commodity lies in the production chains is a good way to figure out what goes where, increasing your profits and allowing you to better immerse yourself in the game's world.
The first part of a typical chain is usually Extraction, which mines raw materials. These are then taken to Refinery, which refines the materials into metals. These metals are taken to either Industrial or High Tech. Industrial uses these metals to produce machinery for High Tech and Agriculture. High Tech creates technology and electronics for Agriculture, Colony, Terraforming, Damaged, Repair, and Service, as well as medicines for all economies, and Agriculture produces food for all economies."
So in short:
Extraction+ Refinery+ Industrial= Machinery used for High Tech & Agricultural
Extraction+ Refinery+ High Tech= Tech, Electronics & Medicine for most economies
Extraction+ Refinery+ High Tech AND Industrial+ Agricultural= Food type supplies
Types of out posts and settlements not listed merely offset losses of things like security and population drops form other types of bases while anything orbital I believe is able to offer those materials based on it's type while larger orbitals are merely a colony that handles all trade in your system in one location. Granted this is supposition based on what we CAN build and knowing this is enough for me to be ok building out my systems now. I also believe without evidence that the type of planet you place an extraction site on determines the quality of the materials it mines.( I.E. A high metal world will get you titanium from the refinery while an ice world may get you copper from the refinery or something like that). You probably should do your best to align your outpost type with the settlement types as well but my theory is if you put down extraction and refineries to cap your output first then expand into High Tech and Industrial then Agricultural after you will set yourself up to generate a ton of commodities and have a self sustaining system. IF it works as intended.
For those of you concerned about how to build a system. I had refused to expand my system until I knew more myself. I did some digging and In the Elite Wiki I found this explanation. Now I believe that materials will "spawn" as a part of the game economy itself but you can likely influence for more specific materials of higher value? So here is what I found and I will follow up by simplifying it:
"Each economy supports each other with their commodities. Knowing where each commodity lies in the production chains is a good way to figure out what goes where, increasing your profits and allowing you to better immerse yourself in the game's world.
The first part of a typical chain is usually Extraction, which mines raw materials. These are then taken to Refinery, which refines the materials into metals. These metals are taken to either Industrial or High Tech. Industrial uses these metals to produce machinery for High Tech and Agriculture. High Tech creates technology and electronics for Agriculture, Colony, Terraforming, Damaged, Repair, and Service, as well as medicines for all economies, and Agriculture produces food for all economies."
So in short:
Extraction+ Refinery+ Industrial= Machinery used for High Tech & Agricultural
Extraction+ Refinery+ High Tech= Tech, Electronics & Medicine for most economies
Extraction+ Refinery+ High Tech AND Industrial+ Agricultural= Food type supplies
Types of out posts and settlements not listed merely offset losses of things like security and population drops form other types of bases while anything orbital I believe is able to offer those materials based on it's type while larger orbitals are merely a colony that handles all trade in your system in one location. Granted this is supposition based on what we CAN build and knowing this is enough for me to be ok building out my systems now. I also believe without evidence that the type of planet you place an extraction site on determines the quality of the materials it mines.( I.E. A high metal world will get you titanium from the refinery while an ice world may get you copper from the refinery or something like that). You probably should do your best to align your outpost type with the settlement types as well but my theory is if you put down extraction and refineries to cap your output first then expand into High Tech and Industrial then Agricultural after you will set yourself up to generate a ton of commodities and have a self sustaining system. IF it works as intended.
Absolutely spot on, and I agree with most of your analysis except for two points.
Colony-born stations can, very likely, have their economy and market "changed" depending on the facilities that are "nearby" (what FDev means by nearby is still unknown, probably the same orbit around a body and facilities built on that body).
The interconnection between economies is exactly as you described. I wonder if neighboring systems (within the colonization radius) have an impact on the quality and quantities produced. For example, a system that is entirely industrial, without extraction and refineries in the system, will probably produce little until these facilities are built. But I think the supply of materials takes into account not only what is in the system, but also neighboring systems.
Obviously, this is speculation, but this would theoretically allow for more specialized and productive economies.
Actually comprehensive, no. Approximately, yes.
I have 31667 currently tracked as having completed colonisation, which is about 11200 new systems (many more existing claims having been finalised since Frontier's official count, of course). When Frontier said 8000 I'd only got about 5500 tracked as having completed.
Counting the incomplete claims (or at least, the ones which were incomplete on the last EDDN ping) I'm up to 39730.
Both those numbers have continued to gradually rise so there'll certainly be some systems missed on EDDN.
(A bit over 100 pre-Colonisation inhabited systems haven't been pinged on EDDN since the Colonisation release; 2 of them haven't been pinged since before the Powerplay release, for an idea of just how long it can take to get "everywhere")
Something important here is that the Wiki has picked an arbitrary starting point for the loop - all five of the major production economies provide at least something that all of the other four need (though for a few of the links just a single commodity)
One could equally correctly say
- the first part of a typical chain is an Agricultural system, to provide food and supplies for the other economies
- this then feeds an Industrial system, which provides machinery both for the Agricultural and for more sophisticated manufacturing in High-Tech
- the High-Tech and Industrial economies then allow mining to take place at Extraction systems, which provide raw materials for Refineries, and some metals for Industrial and High-Tech
- metals and other materials from the Refineries then boost the production of the Industrial systems
and conclude that you should start by building up Agricultural production
It'd need some very careful experimentation to separate out inter-economy production boosts from all the other things which could change production levels.
(The economy of pre-colonisation systems is sufficiently abstracted that mixed economy systems do not gain production benefits over single-economy systems, but there are enough observable differences already that it may not work in exactly the same way here)
I don't think there are any CNBs in High Security systems, so pushing the security level up further might change it.
That said, exactly what causes CNBs at all is unclear - they're most common in Low Security (but many Low Sec don't have them) and less common in Medium (but many Med Sec do) - so it may also depend on other system properties, the faction in control, and so on.
Oh my.
That's quite a few more than I was estimating. So in just the initial land rush we've more than doubled the number of inhabited systems then? I can see why the servers were groaning!
Do you have a dataset on colonized systems you'd be willing to share? Or otherwise any tips on how to pull that status out of archived EDDN traffic?
I don't think we've doubled inhabited (>0 population) yet, but we're definitely over +50%. Very slightly behind double on (>0 factions) as a definition and probably ahead once missed items are discovered - though of course a lot of those might drop again soon as the claim expires.
I can put one together - any particular fields you want?
If you want to build your own by replaying the EDDN archive:
- look for FSDJump, Location, and whatever the CarrierJump event is called
- these will all give you the population and faction count of systems
- population > 0 = colonised ; population = 0, faction count > 0 = claimed (or Detention Centre [1], but you can check the controlling faction for those)
[1] Now there's an interesting possibility: can you get a Detention Centre faction to colonise a system via the squadron link, and if so what happens?
(They'd be tricky to get to Allied with but I think it can be done with bounty hunting if you drag a bunch of mission enemies into their jurisdictions)
We had an AEDC bountyhunting CG years ago, where coudn't find enough bounties.
Turned out that when you circled the station below 2m km, signals spawned with pirates in them. Those had bounties from the station owners. Don't know whether this is still the case, though.
Servers are back - not seeing much in the way of economies changing so far ...