"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

[hutandrei]

Did finish another refinery hub, the fourth on that planet where I finally got Saturday that 0.5 influence.
The 3 items for sale in the local port didn't change.
Also, the supply of H fuel into my Coriolis did not change ( because of the development points associated with the refinery hub).
It's pretty clear that the refinery hub didn't actually go online.
I think every new asset is put into a queue, and when you're lucky, it goes online properly. Until then, although you can see the construction, in terms of BGS - it doesn't exist, it's just a visual placeholder.
This would explain what happened the last few days, the FDev (or better say, the servers) might be overwhelmed by the number of new assets players are creating every day, so this is a way to slow things down.
Why is this bad news (besides the obvious)? It would mean that we have to keep one slot open on any construction area, just to force later on a refresh by building a new asset there. And also, that asset will be basically lost, since we can't force a refresh on it as well.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Depends what you're looking for - at least Colony has a fairly coherent (and high value) set of imports, which is good for obtaining trade missions or doing normal cargo runs to get the station owner a better economic state.

Any single economy type probably has some more interest than that, but if Frontier made good on the "all economic influence finds a route to somewhere" threat you could end up with a five-way hybrid economy where the Military and Tourism parts still eat almost all the production, but the import set is a mess too.

i think one of the things i find hard to get my head around......

in elite it seems building a system where there are specific high demand as well as a specific high supply of something else is everything.

where as building a system where its supply and demand is fulfilled internally appears to me to be absolutely disastrous from any objective point of view.

Now whilst i can see the point in having some good stuff supplied, or something in high demand, i would say we already have tons of such systems in elite. if players want to make more then that is fine and up to them................. but IF i was an architect (the ED definition of one) and i was trying to play the game in as plausible a manner as possible, surely building a system where its own industries all complement each other should be exactly my goal.

where elite colonisation is lacking is any reward for building actual "good" systems which work properly... the biggest rewards we seem to get in elite is deliberately building pretty poor systems which don't work properly (hence end up desperate for some stuff whilst having a glut of others... which is great for traders but is not good for colonists or as an architect .

imo if a system is well balanced then that should make the population boom, the happiness increase and the weekly payout should then increase hugely.

i would then say the architect should probably then get some preferential special trade deals to export outside of the common market which are just for us for doing such a stand up job on building such a great system.

 

[project23]

Of course it goes in a queue, FDEV are british and politely queueing is how we do things dammit!

 

[Born Free]

i think one of the things i find hard to get my head around......

in elite it seems building a system where there are specific high demand as well as a specific high supply of something else is everything.

where as building a system where its supply and demand is fulfilled internally appears to me to be absolutely disastrous from any objective point of view.

Now whilst i can see the point in having some good stuff supplied, or something in high demand, i would say we already have tons of such systems in elite. if players want to make more then that is fine and up to them................. but IF i was an architect (the ED definition of one) and i was trying to play the game in as plausible a manner as possible, surely building a system where its own industries all complement each other should be exactly my goal.

where elite colonisation is lacking is any reward for building actual "good" systems which work properly... the biggest rewards we seem to get in elite is deliberately building pretty poor systems which don't work properly (hence end up desperate for some stuff whilst having a glut of others... which is great for traders but is not good for colonists or as an architect .

imo if a system is well balanced then that should make the population boom, the happiness increase and the weekly payout should then increase hugely.

i would then say the architect should probably then get some preferential special trade deals to export outside of the common market which are just for us for doing such a stand up job on building such a great system.

no "special deals" or bonus benefits.
just haul, dammit. quit spending so much time typing, and get to work. swab those carrier decks and clean out the bilges.

 

[hutandrei]

Something weird is happening in FSS as well, we could still the "planetary construction sites" as Signals, even long after the buildings are done. Maybe that means they are not actually 100% online?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

which is great for traders but is not good for colonists

Ultimately the key thing to understand is that the Pilots Federation and its members are not nice people. So from that perspective, anything which means people need to give us large amounts of money to solve the problems we created is great. From a "nice people" perspective we should be really happy to be creating Colony Orbis stations over picturesque WWs - lots of room for people to live, scenic views, and they can commute ten minutes to another station where the actual heavy industry is for work. But that's not what we're here for.


But in practice you can do both, at least with the current model (when it works), provided your system has a decent number of 3+-slot bodies. Each planet can have a focus on its own economy, the system as a whole can produce everything it needs internally (at least to the extent that players will transport it between stations), each individual station has good production and consumption levels, and the global bonuses (development level etc.) boost everything in the system.

 

[project23]

Something weird is happening in FSS as well, we could still the "planetary construction sites" as Signals, even long after the buildings are done. Maybe that means they are not actually 100% online?

I reckon this is part of the implementation. I've a feeling that to lessen the load on the backend, they make certain installations visible/invisible and then wait for the daily or even weekly to remove them (if at all).

Insertion may be less heavy than removal.

Who knows - since the orbital construction sites are all the same, it may even be more efficient to just have every slot filled with one, only to make the active ones visible/invisible. Certainly a lot less messing around in the background.

In one recent bug fix they talked about visibility, not presence. So I'm sure theres something to this, makes sense.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Unfortunate that I can’t build on it because [presumably] it’s too close to the star, despite remaining landable. You would figure building a fully sealed structure (like a hub), it wouldn’t care too much if the outside is scorching hot - but not melting point - just provide safe underground areas for anybody coming inside/that needs to come inside.

That's funny considering I am allowed to build this installation. I wonder how hot it is here, 1.28Ls from the sun center?
- Supercruise drops out at 1.00 Ls from the center.

 

[Xenia_K]

That's funny considering I am allowed to build this installation. I wonder how hot it is here, 1.28Ls from the sun center?
- Supercruise drops out at 1.00 Ls from the center.

View attachment 426224

I think FDev generally calculates the Orbits at least factor two to small - all Stations I built until now are extremely near to exclusion-zone, Orbit-cruise-zone or, at stars, very near to or even in scooping-zone....

 

[Greasetrap42]

Unfortunate that I can’t build on it because [presumably] it’s too close to the star, despite remaining landable. You would figure building a fully sealed structure (like a hub), it wouldn’t care too much if the outside is scorching hot - but not melting point - just provide safe underground areas for anybody coming inside/that needs to come inside.

If you and passengers can live indefinitely inside even the cheapest spaceship landed on a planet you would think a permanent structure could do the same.

 

[Born Free]

i would name it Burns Station

 

[Kira Goto]

I think FDev generally calculates the Orbits at least factor two to small - all Stations I built until now are extremely near to exclusion-zone, Orbit-cruise-zone or, at stars, very near to or even in scooping-zone....

I sure have noticed it when I built a large orbital station (which admittedly is two so far, with a Coriolis half-finished in the system which I first started my colonization adventures in but part of the reason I have not continued to build it is a bug or server nonsense that resulted in two industrial surface ports landing in exactly the same place and Frontier have not resolved/were not able to immediately do anything about after a support request because apparently they can’t just hit a “delete” button for a build site… that and inability to - legitimately - use asteroid fields as a build location for non-asteroid structures, bugs excluded) and they whizz around the place like they’re being chased after by the devil because the orbital placement has them so close to the surface. I’ve seen that with outposts on occasion but I kept thinking “This is closer than the Frontier-built systems have their large starports to planets”.

… as for the stars, yeah, maybe it’s a bit toasty when I can’t charge the FSD of some poor heat-performing ships because the station/construction is placed so close to the sun. Not all are though, I’ve had a few more ‘reasonable’ primary port placements around a star where it’s a couple light seconds from it rather than nearly in the scooping zone (I feel like one of the updates accidentally put the orbits too close, but cannot tell since I didn’t observe too closely until after Corsair dropped). Still, I guess we can know how Lantern Light possibly happened, given this.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

This is closer than the Frontier-built systems have their large starports to planets

They used to be closer, then they hit some bug fairly early on and moved them all a lot further out to avoid it, and never moved them back after fixing it (also fairly early on).

If you go to their hand-placed systems those generally have fairly tight station-body orbits, though - the ones I'm building now seem about the same sort of relative positions as most of the orbital stations out in Colonia are.

 

[Tharrn]

Built a medium agricultural settlement on a HMC before the "accidental" patching of planetary influence on the eco. Finished a Coriolis in slot 0 after that patch and the eco turned out as "Extraction" (1.15). Today I finished a space farm in slot 1 and the station eco switched to "Colony" (1.0). I expected it to either remain extraction 1.15 till the tick or thursday or to turn agricultural...

 

[photomankc]

its all broken right now. influence on economy is busted completely.

 

[vicwarrior]

Yeah, in their haste to stamp out planetary eco influences, they broke ALL sources of economy influences, so dont trigger any economy updates yet, its poop factories for everyone right now.

 

[project23]

Great little data point here if anyone is interested...

Just finished my coriolis. I can provide pics if its easier but don't have the time right this sec...

Okay so, briefly explained - I have a HMC with a refinery hub, and the primary civilian outpost orbiting it. I built both of these before all the recent updates/'downdates'. The outpost had a healthy 0.5/0.5 colony/refinery market.

I just finished a coriolis around the SAME planet, in slot 0. So now there is the following:

Refinery Hub -> Primary Outpost -> Coriolis.

The Coriolis has only biowaste and hydrogen fuel, and a 1.0 colony economy.
The Outpost has RETAINED (for the time being) its 0.5/0.5 Colony/Refinery economy - everything is the same.

I should note the Coriolis is still in deployment, so this may change once it gets fully deployed. But at the very least it seems that finishing the Coriolis has had no effect on the pre-existing market of the outpost.

John

 

[hutandrei]

Its more than that, I'm afraid you hit a known bug.
See this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...8AmTmflkMOu3hO84pVMFq02ThWYtIdFdETPStDey3/pub

A station built in slot zero at the same planetary body as the Primary Port will not receive influence.

A colony that will never detect a new influence type is doomed to being a poop station forever. This can happen for three reasons:

• The colony was built in the last (or only) free slot at the planetary body.
• The colony is an orbital or space outpost that was not built in slot zero.
• The colony is an orbital or space outpost that was built at the same planetary body as the primary port

 

[project23]

Its more than that, I'm afraid you hit a known bug.
See this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...8AmTmflkMOu3hO84pVMFq02ThWYtIdFdETPStDey3/pub

Thanks, that clears that up... i'm sure it'll be fixed at some point.

I had expected the build to at least refresh the economy that already existed - people have reported losing a healthy market due to it being 'updated' by a build.

I'm probably gunna leave this system alone now until it gets fixed. Interestingly, it is only the last of the three reasons listed that applies here. It was in slot zero, and i do have remaining slots.

Cheers,

John

 

[Greasetrap42]

Its more than that, I'm afraid you hit a known bug.
See this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...8AmTmflkMOu3hO84pVMFq02ThWYtIdFdETPStDey3/pub

A station built in slot zero at the same planetary body as the Primary Port will not receive influence.

A colony that will never detect a new influence type is doomed to being a poop station forever. This can happen for three reasons:

• The colony was built in the last (or only) free slot at the planetary body.
• The colony is an orbital or space outpost that was not built in slot zero.
• The colony is an orbital or space outpost that was built at the same planetary body as the primary port

If this is true, and remains long without being fixed... that would be completely ridiculous.