We can't have player agency.
"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.
- Thread starter Ian Doncaster
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No, mine had the normal population tick last night.
Unrelated: Is it possible to get the 'Wealthy' station interior if you have enough 'wealth' points? Not that I mind the extraction one, but between the two there's a clear winner.
Not unless you flip the economy to tourism, because apparently the wealthy interior has been repurposed. Just like the interior used for Refinery has never been used for refineries until now...
Thanks but that really sucks lol.
I swear I've had days where I didn't see any pop growth, but I wasn't as on top of it as I am now. Maybe you should wait a day or two to see if it really stopped.
Have you built anything else? What station is it, what's the pop now, and how long has it been growing? I'm thinking it would make sense for the population to settle at some point and just stop growing, but it would also make sense to me if that happened on a per-asset level and not on a per-system level.
Did you build a coriolis in system? Recently.
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I built a T1 planetary port and an commercial outpost after finishing the T3 Orbis.
My friend's system next to mine had also no pop tick.
But the tick happened some time tonight between 10:30p.m. UTC and 7:30a.m. UTC.
Was getting nervous. Raised slightly to 26.2m per tick for the Tourism/Agri T3.
Seems like it's just a bit irregular since mine didn't happen now lol
Honest? I suspect it's part of the procedural generation.
Think about it. Over 10 years ago, all populated systems got generated with a "Primary" facility, and not all are the "biggest" in the system.
That concept still exists today. And, something I've talked about for a while... "Colonisation" existed as an unused BGS state for a very long time... this suggested FD wanted this to be an outcome of natural BGS activity. I suspect FD couldn't work out a way to do it without causing a massive cascade event, and so they made it a player-run thing.
But they had to overlay that over mechanics that have been core to the BGS for over a decade... and that we know FD themselves are somewhat fearful of themselves[1].
I suspect that Colonisation is simply something that, instead of having the defined slots for a system be "empty", they are instead "occupied" with "empty slots you can build in"... which are generated at the time a system is generated[2]. And at the core of that, is the designation of the primary system, which is likely coupled to some very old mechanics that simply don't factor it to be in a different slot[3], and simply can't be undone today.... the genie is out the bottle so to speak.
[1] Owing to the number of times Dav & others have reacted along the lines of "I really really wouldn't like to do that" in streams responding to questions about the BGS.
[2] Not wanting to go into that one right now...
[3] This is one of those things which, to a human, would sound pretty ridiculous, but there's lots of systems, particularly where they're designed for optimisation for something like, i dunno, a galaxy of 400b star systems and resultant planets, that it would make a lot of sense.
Had one pop tick since Thursday.
No tick today either....
I had it later. I think sometimes it takes so long it might as well skip a day. Or two. But it isn't really skipping a day, just, being very slow.
Unrelated, again... what are the body types that have a population boost? ELW's are the obvious answer. Terraformable water worlds, too. Do non-terraformable water worlds have it? Do terraformable HMC's have it, too?
A lone outpost I built around a non-terraformable WW as the primary body with 3M pop when I last checked, suggests they do.
By comparison, an outpost which is the primary around a HMC in a system with non-terraformable WW had around 106k when I last looked and that was at least a couple weeks following establishment. That was before I took the system with the primary around non-TF WW.
yep - before 3.3 dropped I had a perfect allrounder-system, suppling (except ECells and Muon-Imager) ALL stuff needed for colonization - now its just a mess.
Hence going forward I only construct dedicated systems Agri/HT/Ind/Ref only and avoid Mil-Installations/Settlements for security like hell....
Thanks, that's a really useful reply (As are all of your replies to my silly questions so far).
I guess the last piece is figuring out if terraformable HMC's give a population boost by just being terraformable (I assume your primary outpost on a HMC is non-terraformable)
For what it's worth, I've asked (And found by myself later) that it's not hard to get security up. Doesn't ask you for a lot, 6 was enough for medium security in a system with 6 million pop. I imagine something like 10 is high security, a little more assuming that pop increases might increase the necessary threshold.
This means I could get high security with nothing but government installations and comms installations, neither of which have any economy influence. Bonus is that they're giving a lot of other things such as development level, standard of living and tech level.
Single economy systems seem fairly achievable now beyond the planetary influence for some things. While it's easy to have a 100% extraction or refinery economy that also has high 'sliders' of everything, it might be harder with agriculture or high tech since the planetary overrides for them also have other economies. I guess the trick is simply to give them all the strong links you can get, and then further develop the system with tons of weak links.
If you have enough strong and weak links of your desired economy, I'm guessing a weak link from a security station or just a lone exploration hub or anything, just won't be enough to actually harm your economy. This does push you to actually develop a system though instead of only building the one station and a couple of installations or settlements.
All that being said it's a bit silly from Frontier to change the rules without giving us the ability to delete constructions, 'upgrade' them or repurpose them into another kind of construction, given any change in how economies work will inevitably end up bricking some systems forever.
Sure, but I figured that the more delicate HT Products, such as HE Suits, Microcontrollers etc., are most immediatly consumed by any other influence... so I stick with one system one eco....
edit: especcially because I now start the core of my colonization-Bubble and want to be autonomous with supplies )(xcept the usual suspects....)
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Indeed. I’ve also yet to build anything on or around a terraformable HMC to give info on that. Which might not happen for some time, thanks to both my hauling energy being relatively low, and a relative lack of interest in intricate system building because planetary influences (and more limitedly weak links) just make it a useless mess actually trying to do that.
Mostly the former though, because I do have things which I could be doing and one ‘primary’ system which to focus on and for which the plan is effectively unchanged despite update 3’s havoc. It does not contain any terraformable HMCs (or rocky bodies, rare as they may be) however.
Yup, this is all pretty true. It's very annoying and I'm with you. What I'm thinking though, is that 1 weak link from a military/security installation surely doesn't just eliminate all supply if you have the market already with 2-3 strong links (Ideally more) and 10 weak links or something. Which is why this system is better suited for people trying to develop a system long term rather than doing little work and leaving it as-is.
Not really trying to 'justify' the workings of the current system though, just saying it might not be as bad as it appears, as long as you focus 99% of your time on a single economy with tons of installations and settlements dedicated to it.
More complex systems are pretty much out of the question though lol. Having a really big system can feel a bit like a waste if you can't really build multiple economies on it. Like a one-system trading route isn't really possible right now
you are absolutely right.
My intention is to develope the core-functionality first (in 4 dedicated systems HT/Agri/Ref/Ind) so that I have all needed supplies available locally (the special stuff I will deposite on my 3 FC) so that from there I can go without the need of ferrying all that stuff by FC.
My goal is to establish a Colonia-Size bubble (some 30-40 Systems) well out of reach (for the foreseeable future) of PP....
Still no pop tick. Had double tick the evening of 11/06, then during the weekly update on 12/06, then the morning of 14/06, now nothing since then.
So it's basically one population tick for the last 4 days for me, when it was daily before.
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What i know about population:
The planetary relation - from my observations - is Earth Like > Water World > other. I have not yet figured out relevant differences between HMC, rocky, ice and rocky/ice, but i haven't investigated thoroughly.
Regarding population boosts: it isn't only planet related, but also economy related. e.g. I have watched a 3m pop tick in Wregoe SJ-J B50-6 on the third day after building a T3 planetary starport. This changed to 5m when the economy of the port changed to High Tech (Edit: i did not observe changes to pop rate increase on the 4th day with other stations, but constant pop changes since the third day). This is in line with the observation that agricultural systems have higher population. My current assumption regarding economy boost is agri > high tech > industrial, refinery > extraction.
Also, it is port related. T3 > T1 planetary port > T2 port > outpost. Have not seen any significant differences between the T3 planetary starport and the T3 orbitals. Both give mid-doubledigit-millions (edit: with population ticks in the low-mid single digit values). If anything, my impression was that T3 orbitals are more powerful. Therefore: make use of planetary T1 ports. These give significant population boosts compared to outposts and Coriolis. e.g. one of my squad mates built 2 T1 ports and a Coriolis on and around an ice world in Col 285 Sector TY-H c10-7. The system is industrial and has a population of 7.4 million.
Regarding station population: Population is station specific, as can be seen by the supply numbers (Hydrogen Fuel is the best indicator). It is roughly a square root relation. Massive increases in a system's population do, however, hardly affect other stations than the station where the population increase is happening. In my Wregoe KP-E c25-11 system the Refinery "Victoria Wolf Steel" saw it's Steel production increase from around 128k tons to around 143k tons over the last 1.5 weeks. While the population increased from 500k to 118m. This is negligible and can be fully explained with the additional dev and wealth from Orbis + commercial outpost + tourist installation + T1 planetary port + security station.
Edit: all observed changes were for systems with decent standard of living, with low to mid double digit system wide values)
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