"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

[Ned Flandalorian]

It's not just the population, the tick in general is back to being unstable along with conflicts not progressing.
I'm also seeing factions having "invisible" conflicts where neither of them have assets and shouldn't be locked when their influence matches, but instead they get stuck together for several days with no active state and then split with one gaining 5% and the other losing it.

 

[Frankymole]

Unrelated, again... what are the body types that have a population boost? ELW's are the obvious answer. Terraformable water worlds, too. Do non-terraformable water worlds have it? Do terraformable HMC's have it, too?

Have Earthlikes in colonized systems started showing illuminated cities on their night sides? I.e. some of the population is actually living down there on the surface?

 

[Frankymole]

Not unless you flip the economy to tourism, because apparently the wealthy interior has been repurposed. Just like the interior used for Refinery has never been used for refineries until now...

I've got Tourism/agriculture in my Orbis. What is the "wealthy" interior meant to look like? Is it the palm trees one like at Mikhail Gorbachev?

 

[_Flin_]

I've got Tourism/agriculture in my Orbis. What is the "wealthy" interior meant to look like? Is it the palm trees one like at Mikhail Gorbachev?

It looks like Leonard Nimoy around Vulcan.
Looks like this:

Spoiler: Wealthy Interior

Palm trees, but not white/green, instead grey/red. No silver statues.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

I've got Tourism/agriculture in my Orbis. What is the "wealthy" interior meant to look like? Is it the palm trees one like at Mikhail Gorbachev?

It's been a while since I've been to M. Gorbachev but yes, I believe it is.
Originally the wealthy interior was the one that has lines of trees on the sides of pads and covered parks. Tourism was the one with the chrome statues, open parks and a big arch in front of the elevators on the concourse. But now tourism stations get the wealthy interior and military stations get the "old" tourism interior.

I suspect fdev did this on purpose to a) make it easy to get the statue interior (just drop a large station around a normal star) and b) make each interior have a clear economy associated with it rather than system stats.

 

[_Flin_]

Having an issue with agri settlements and installations. Space Farm above non-tidally locked, terraformable HMC. Assumption is that it should give 0.4 base + terraformable bonus = 0.6 agri economy. M settlement on tidally locked HMC gives 0.1 economy.

But the Space Farm only gives 0.4. which is a strange value. Was under the impression that bonus is 50% base value.

Any new known values for M settlements and space farms, and how the strong link bonuses work?

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Having an issue with agri settlements and installations. Space Farm above non-tidally locked, terraformable HMC. Assumption is that it should give 0.4 base + terraformable bonus = 0.6 agri economy. M settlement on tidally locked HMC gives 0.1 economy.

But the Space Farm only gives 0.4. which is a strange value. Was under the impression that bonus is 50% base value.

Any new known values for M settlements and space farms, and how the strong link bonuses work?

A bonus is always 0.4. Reduction is the same but cannot reduce the link below a minimum of 0.1.
I've said before I don't think the terraformable bonus for ag is working, this seems to line up with that.

 

[_Flin_]

A bonus is always 0.4. Reduction is the same but cannot reduce the link below a minimum of 0.1.
I've said before I don't think the terraformable bonus for ag is working, this seems to line up with that.

Thank you. I have opened an issue for the agri terraformable bonus. In case you encountered the same, please upvote the issue.

Issue Tracker

issues.frontierstore.net

 

[Jmanis]

Anyone else feel a little like we're giving up, or is it just my own funk? That it's actually hard to control what happens so we just revert to throwing down the least we can in each system? Like trying to do more than the minimum to get the commodities we want is punished?

We can design big high pop systems but mostly they're for show or occasional BGS trading/mission fun? I guess maybe I'm butting up against the cold reality that is always there in elite. The economy doesn't really matter

I stopped doing things when they started (albeit unsurprisingly) making big changes to how the economies are formed and how the different facilities interact.

The barriers to experiment and find out what works are just too high for a system that's changes how it works frequently.

Reality is, economy hasn't mattered since Nu mining, maybe even before that. It's just cooked.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

I stopped doing things when they started (albeit unsurprisingly) making big changes to how the economies are formed and how the different facilities interact.

The barriers to experiment and find out what works are just too high for a system that's changes how it works frequently.

Reality is, economy hasn't mattered since Nu mining, maybe even before that. It's just cooked.

Gotta be honest with you I have absolutely no clue what 'nu mining' is supposed to mean

 

[Steve the Red]

Indeed. I’ve also yet to build anything on or around a terraformable HMC to give info on that. Which might not happen for some time, thanks to both my hauling energy being relatively low, and a relative lack of interest in intricate system building because planetary influences (and more limitedly weak links) just make it a useless mess actually trying to do that.

Mostly the former though, because I do have things which I could be doing and one ‘primary’ system which to focus on and for which the plan is effectively unchanged despite update 3’s havoc. It does not contain any terraformable HMCs (or rocky bodies, rare as they may be) however.

Ridgeway Base in Col 285 Sector VF-N c7-29 is on a terraformable HMC (with biologicals). The update added terraforming and agricultural to the existing extraction/refinery (refinery from 2 refineries) and ate all the polymers.

 

[Kira Goto]

If it's of interest to anybody, an Outbreak state seems to result in a -8% happiness rating [no other states look to be active]. Not sure if it's been documented as a figure, or exactly what would've caused it in one of my systems (the first one near a Titan wreck in fact), but there it is.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

Do stations that are not linked affect the markets of other stations?

I have an Extraction Coriolis named Cleaver Mine. (335% extraction, 0% anything else). When I checked the market earlier, everything was in green (3 bars) supply AND demand. Everything on the list, no exceptions.

I recently finished another Coriolis in the system, around a water world, for extra population. I don't care about the market of this station. But for what it's worth it's 140% agriculture, 140% tourism and 45% extraction (The latter from the weak links, the former two from the planet overrides).

But I noticed that on Cleaver Mine, supply and demand has changed. I don't have the numbers, but I notice the bars are different.

Silver, Biowaste and Palladium production no longer have 3 green bars of supply.

Silver and Palladium are consumed by Tourism, while Biowaste is consumed by agricultural.

As far as demand in Cleaver Mine goes, it's now either no bars or 1 red bar for Grain, Animal Meat, Water, Tea, Fruit and Vegetables and Coffee.

Seems pretty clear cut there's some commodity cannibalization, even though Cleaver Mine exclusively has extraction strong and weak links. Or maybe it just affects the green/yellow/red bars, and not the supply/demand numbers? I wish I had taken a screenshot of the actual supply/demand numbers, but it was growing anyway as the system population just kept growing.

This tells me not only are multiple economy stations bad (This was known), but that multi-economy systems at all, even by just building an unrelated colony station you don't care about for anything other than the stats and population, are going to mess up the supply and demand everywhere. Maybe this was known but I didn't know about it.

 

[Three Stars]

Do stations that are not linked affect the markets of other stations?

I have an Extraction Coriolis named Cleaver Mine. (335% extraction, 0% anything else). When I checked the market earlier, everything was in green (3 bars) supply AND demand. Everything on the list, no exceptions.

I recently finished another Coriolis in the system, around a water world, for extra population. I don't care about the market of this station. But for what it's worth it's 140% agriculture, 140% tourism and 45% extraction (The latter from the weak links, the former two from the planet overrides).

But I noticed that on Cleaver Mine, supply and demand has changed. I don't have the numbers, but I notice the bars are different.

Silver, Biowaste and Palladium production no longer have 3 green bars of supply.

Silver and Palladium are consumed by Tourism, while Biowaste is consumed by agricultural.

As far as demand in Cleaver Mine goes, it's now either no bars or 1 red bar for Grain, Animal Meat, Water, Tea, Fruit and Vegetables and Coffee.

Seems pretty clear cut there's some commodity cannibalization, even though Cleaver Mine exclusively has extraction strong and weak links. Or maybe it just affects the green/yellow/red bars, and not the supply/demand numbers? I wish I had taken a screenshot of the actual supply/demand numbers, but it was growing anyway as the system population just kept growing.

This tells me not only are multiple economy stations bad (This was known), but that multi-economy systems at all, even by just building an unrelated colony station you don't care about for anything other than the stats and population, are going to mess up the supply and demand everywhere. Maybe this was known but I didn't know about it.

View attachment 432643

Someone can double check me on this, but I believe the supply and demand numbers for every market in the system are rerolled every time you add something. Any changes to system property values are taken into account, but there’s also a broad range of potential amounts for each commodity. You could have just gotten a bad roll.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

Someone can double check me on this, but I believe the supply and demand numbers for every market in the system are rerolled every time you add something. Any changes to system property values are taken into account, but there’s also a broad range of potential amounts for each commodity. You could have just gotten a bad roll.

I've built like a dozen things between settlements and installations, including one planetary port. I docked at Cleaver Mine every time, and while prices and supply varied a little bit, they never, ever went below the 3 green bars. They were present for every single commodity on both the sell and buy pages every time.

Considering every affected commodity here is either imported or exported by Agriculture/Tourism, and every other commodity seems unaffected, I don't think it's good data interpretation at all to say it could've been a bad roll when everything correlates to the two new economies being introduced.

If it were a bad roll, with it happening only on the Coriolis instead of the 19 other constructions in the system, and then the change correlating exclusively to Agri and Tourism commodities... lets just say the chances for that are so astronomically low I might as well win the lottery 3 times in a row

 

[Three Stars]

I've built like a dozen things between settlements and installations, including one planetary port. I docked at Cleaver Mine every time, and while prices and supply varied a little bit, they never, ever went below the 3 green bars. They were present for every single commodity on both the sell and buy pages every time.

Considering every affected commodity here is either imported or exported by Agriculture/Tourism, and every other commodity seems unaffected, I don't think it's good data interpretation at all to say it could've been a bad roll when everything correlates to the two new economies being introduced.

If it were a bad roll, with it happening only on the Coriolis instead of the 19 other constructions in the system, and then the change correlating exclusively to Agri and Tourism commodities... lets just say the chances for that are so astronomically low I might as well win the lottery 3 times in a row

Well, you’re such a delightful person that I’m sure that someone will be right along to help you.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

Well, you’re such a delightful person that I’m sure that someone will be right along to help you.

Not sure where that comes from, I was just saying there were 19 other instances of constructions earlier and also that there's a correlation between the affected stuff and the economies of the new stations, something I wasn't very clear about before, but okay

 

[Kira Goto]

My best guess to that change to the bars is that it's because their relative supply/demand level has dropped below the threshold where it qualifies based on population level (and the other variables which affect it?), but that's more me shooting for the stars based on a basic observation thereof in my own systems (eg when a port was just starting its production of a certain good after construction, it would take a little time before it reached a certain level, after which I'd see the green bars next to it, or the red bars of low demand/supply disappear).

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The circumstances in which the green/red bars show up is a bit weird to begin with and I don't think we ever completely pinned that down. It's not impossible that it measures them in some way relative to the system economy rather than the station economy, even if the underyling tonnage number is identical, for example.

When I was testing building Agricultural settlements, I did not see any significant effects on the Ind->Agri outputs of my Ind outpost which is isolated from weak links when measuring numbers, though I didn't think to check the green/red status.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

From info given in another thread: it looks like tier 3 planetary ports do indeed pass planetary influence as 1.2 (0.4 x3) to stations in orbit. So a station built above a rocky world with a tier 3 port would have (1.0 + 0.4) + (1.2 + 0.4) = 3.0 without a single refinery present.