"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

[Ian Doncaster]

Weak links are slightly complicated.

- any asset with an economy type is capable of generating a weak link
- it will generate a weak link equal to its own economy type
- settlements, installations and hubs always generate weak links
- outposts and larger ports generally do not generate weak links unless they are in the same place as a "more important" port, and then they will
- a place in this case is "body+surface" or "body+orbital"
- a port is more important if it is of a higher tier, or the same tier but built earlier

 

[Cymoril]

Thank you... so I take it from that relays etc will not generate weak links when orbiting around a non-port planet? (wanting to build up security and also get construction points).

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Thank you... so I take it from that relays etc will not generate weak links when orbiting around a non-port planet? (wanting to build up security and also get construction points).

They will. Relays are an installation, they always make weak links.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Yes - if you want security and construction points without weak links, you need to use the Comms Installation (T1 to generate T2) or Government Installation (T2 to generate T3) which doesn't have an economy type, so doesn't generate any weak links.

 

[PilotB]

You can also use Military outposts for security if you make sure not to place a more important port around that body. It's more expensive than a comms installation but provides more security. Depending on how many slots you have to work you can mix and match the options. Each has it's own trade off.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Here's a fun bug:

• built an industrial ground port
• built an industrial outpost above it

Instead of the ground port linking to the orbital outpost, the outpost receives no links and instead puts out weak links all over the system - with the exception of linking to the ground port directly under it.

 

[Three Stars]

Here's a fun bug:

• built an industrial ground port
• built an industrial outpost above it

Instead of the ground port linking to the orbital outpost, the outpost receives no links and instead puts out weak links all over the system - with the exception of linking to the ground port directly under it.

It’s no consolation to you at all, but that is consistent with the behavior of putting two outposts with assigned economies together. The first one remains a receiver of links. The second one becomes a broadcaster of links.

I guess it makes sense that that behavior would not be solely restricted to two outposts in orbit together, but any two ports that have assigned non-colony economies within the same body economic sphere.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

It’s no consolation to you at all, but that is consistent with the behavior of putting two outposts with assigned economies together. The first one remains a receiver of links. The second one becomes a broadcaster of links.

I guess it makes sense that that behavior would not be solely restricted to two outposts in orbit together, but any two ports that have assigned non-colony economies within the same body economic sphere.

I know that's how orbital outposts work. We got given a diagram showing it and the in-game codex even says that's how they work. But it also says planetary ports will always link to orbital stations above them - which, in past experiences, they have. But it seems something is wrong with the economy-specific planetary ports.

 

[Three Stars]

I know that's how orbital outposts work. We got given a diagram showing it and the in-game codex even says that's how they work. But it also says planetary ports will always link to orbital stations above them - which, in past experiences, they have. But it seems something is wrong with the economy-specific planetary ports.

What are the actual economy percentages at each place?

My point is that the “orbital” part may be us misinterpreting how the rules work. Economy specific outposts aren’t all orbital, as you’re well aware.

The actual rule seems to be: “Two economy-specific outposts with identical economies, orbital or planetary, within the same body’s economic sphere will result in the newer outpost becoming a transmitter of weak links”. A T1 Industrial Planet Port would appear to be the same structure economically speaking as a T1 Industrial Outpost in orbit.

I can’t imagine a lot of people have tried this before, so we were missing data points on how the system really worked. Or this is really just a bug.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

The actual rule seems to be: “Two economy-specific outposts with identical economies, orbital or planetary, within the same body’s economic sphere will result in the newer outpost becoming a transmitter of weak links”.

That's not correct because they don't need to be economy-specific builds. You can put two colony outposts next to each other (not above/below!) and one will turn into a "facility" receiving no links/generating weak links (based on the economy of the planetary influence from the host body).

On the other hand, you can put a colony outpost on the surface and another in orbit and the one on the surface will link to the one in orbit. Neither will generate weak links.

 

[PilotB]

Instead of the ground port linking to the orbital outpost, the outpost receives no links and instead puts out weak links all over the system - with the exception of linking to the ground port directly under it.

There's no UI for the links it gets from the ground port. Check the journal file and you should see they're all there.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

There's no UI for the links it gets from the ground port. Check the journal file and you should see they're all there.

The only economy the orbital outpost has is 1.4 industrial - it's not getting any links from anything at all in the system, despite being the only thing in orbit at that body. The planetary port receives links from a couple of hubs on the same body, nothing is being passed up (or down).

 

[Strunzdesign]

That's not correct because they don't need to be economy-specific builds. You can put two colony outposts next to each other (not above/below!) and one will turn into a "facility" receiving no links/generating weak links (based on the economy of the planetary influence from the host body).

On the other hand, you can put a colony outpost on the surface and another in orbit and the one on the surface will link to the one in orbit. Neither will generate weak links.

I can confirm that a T1 planetary port - outpost civilian combined with an orbital military outpost (Nemesis) works without turning any of them into an installation. That a combination of a defined-economy ground port and a defined-economy orbital outpost creates weak links is... it's disturbing.

 

[Kira Goto]

I can confirm that a T1 planetary port - outpost civilian combined with an orbital military outpost (Nemesis) works without turning any of them into an installation. That a combination of a defined-economy ground port and a defined-economy orbital outpost creates weak links is... it's disturbing.

And also sounds a lot like a bug because planetary ports “technically” don’t visibly pass on the economy of built structures - it never shows up in the UI, only planetary economy - even if the end result is that they do and the values will show up in the journal appropriately.

Now I’m not sure I want to tempt the idea of building a T1 fixed economy surface port only to find it doesn’t pass on the supporting infrastructure influence to an orbital T2 or even T3. But we needed unavoidably forced planet economies, right? (Given how colony T1 planetaries pass on only planetary influence in the UI, I somehow feel like it’s yet again related to that nonsense)

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Perhaps one other important detail: there's an outpost hub on the planet. The economy UI that gets shown when you place one of these hints that they act like a colony station, so I wouldn't discount that it's implicated somehow.

I have another body with a high-tech planetary port and a half-finished high-tech outpost above it, but at this point I cannot risk finishing it in case it forever wipes out my insulating membrane supply elsewhere in the system. As it is, I'm going to have to build a tier 3 surface port to get them back.

 

[Strunzdesign]

Perhaps one other important detail: there's an outpost hub on the planet. The economy UI that gets shown when you place one of these hints that they act like a colony station, so I wouldn't discount that it's implicated somehow.

Yes, that may explain it. It is a T2 facility so it becomes a sink and grabs all the weak and strong links that would normally hit the T1 ground port. I do not understand it fully... but i suspect something in that direction...

If true... then the question remains: does a combination of pre-defined ground port and pre-defined orbital outpost becomes a weak link emitter?

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Yes, that may explain it. It is a T2 facility so it becomes a sink and grabs all the weak and strong links that would normally hit the T1 ground port. I do not understand it fully... but i suspect something in that direction...

Sort of.
The T1 ground port is getting all the links it should. The T2 outpost hub might be acting like a coriolis-equivalent and blocking the T1 orbital from receiving links.

If true... then the question remains: does a combination of pre-defined ground port and pre-defined orbital outpost becomes a weak link emitter?

There's also another question: is there a situation where this could be beneficial? Having the economies on a body isolated from an outpost in orbit at the same body?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

There's also another question: is there a situation where this could be beneficial? Having the economies on a body isolated from an outpost in orbit at the same body?

Since - if it is the hub - it isolates the orbital from receiving any sort of weak links from elsewhere in the system too, then an outpost hub is way cheaper to build than a second orbital T1 outpost is for when you want a sole HT or Ind economy there.

If building the outpost hub first serves to isolate T2 stations as well, then you could stick an outpost hub on a rocky body (or any other planet type with a useful intrinsic economy pattern, for that matter), then put a Coriolis in orbit, then do what you like with the rest of the system without worrying about putting weak links into the refinery but at a fraction of the cost of building a "decoy Coriolis".

(If that is what Outpost Hubs do then that's incredibly good, but proving that is going to need some expensive testing)

 

[Strunzdesign]

There's also another question: is there a situation where this could be beneficial? Having the economies on a body isolated from an outpost in orbit at the same body?

1. Maybe a stronger market in both ports due to more population on / around that body.
2. Maybe a higher economic share in the orbital, if the economic power is relayed upwards.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Since - if it is the hub - it isolates the orbital from receiving any sort of weak links from elsewhere in the system too, then an outpost hub is way cheaper to build than a second orbital T1 outpost is for when you want a sole HT or Ind economy there.

Is it really though, because it's a T2 which means you have to build a T1 to get the point for it.