Though if you're able to build cheap decoys, you no longer need to worry about putting T1 settlements down everywhere they might be useful.
The cheapest T1 settlement + T2 hub is still only just over half the price of a proper decoy outpost.
"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.
- Thread starter Ian Doncaster
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The cheapest T1 settlement + T2 hub is still only just over half the price of a proper decoy outpost.
If the outpost hub potentially is behind absorbing weak links, what about the civilian hub with its rather stringent -3 security penalty?
Unless it has some kind of hidden benefit to it as well, it doesn’t seem like a very sensible structure to build aside from “I want to”. Or for the purposes of testing. Currently don’t have any system where I could put one down and see what effects it might or might not have though.
Unless it has some kind of hidden benefit to it as well, it doesn’t seem like a very sensible structure to build aside from “I want to”. Or for the purposes of testing. Currently don’t have any system where I could put one down and see what effects it might or might not have though.
A population booster maybe? To boost the markets? That could explain the -3 security...
I've certainly heard that suggested before... is there ANYONE who's built one whose system we can check?
The -3 security perk. Not everyone wants their security to increase but they may want to build some of the stuff that does increase security.
I have a future project where I can test the civilian hub out but as it requires an Odyssey settlement I will not build one at this stage. There's so many variables however how would we actually test it? Build 2 mirror systems one with a civilian hub one without or just one system wait for it to stabilise and then add the hub.
What do we need on the planet. t1 outpost + civilian hub + orbital outpost + the required agriculture settlement so we actually have a link? Something else that makes more sense.
I also wonder about the scientific hub vs high tech hub. From a raw pips standpoint High tech needs a secondary perk for reducing both wealth and security but what could it be?
I have a future project where I can test the civilian hub out but as it requires an Odyssey settlement I will not build one at this stage. There's so many variables however how would we actually test it? Build 2 mirror systems one with a civilian hub one without or just one system wait for it to stabilise and then add the hub.
What do we need on the planet. t1 outpost + civilian hub + orbital outpost + the required agriculture settlement so we actually have a link? Something else that makes more sense.
I also wonder about the scientific hub vs high tech hub. From a raw pips standpoint High tech needs a secondary perk for reducing both wealth and security but what could it be?
Those two at least have different service-enabling setups (Vista Genomics for the Scientific, Shipyard and Outfitting for the High-Tech)
"Enabling" Vista Genomics is pointless. All it does is make vista show up in the features shown for the station in the system map. The actual facility on the concourse is always accessible regardless.
My suspicion is that economies which are water intensive, like refineries or industrial economies, leave very little leftover for sanitation (or toilets for that matter).
Ironically, agricultural economies tend to generate excess water supplies unless there is a drought or blight condition.
These are just guesses, the dynamics of system economics don't always follow the logical path
There's two major causes of the Outbreak state
- it tends to be a side-effect of the War state (though has a Pending period such that it tends to come in after the War itself is completed)
- Biowaste delivery missions reliably cause it at the destination, so systems with major Agricultural stations in busy areas can get it as an almost clockwork event
It can happen through other routes too, but those are the two most obvious ones.
- it tends to be a side-effect of the War state (though has a Pending period such that it tends to come in after the War itself is completed)
- Biowaste delivery missions reliably cause it at the destination, so systems with major Agricultural stations in busy areas can get it as an almost clockwork event
It can happen through other routes too, but those are the two most obvious ones.
@Ian Doncaster quick question: got a nice system with rocky worlds. at A1 currently I am building a civilian outpost which should deliver a refinery-market.
At A4a I´ll build a T1 civilian port so I get the surface refinery-mats (its a rocky as well) which will be followed by a Coriolis around that one (besides of 3 Comms and a Government Installation at other places for the T2 points and sec).
Now A2 is a terrestrial Waterworld, I´d like to place a civilian outpost there as well (for the 500k population boost) which will result in an Agri eco. Terrible Idea or will that have no effect on the refineries (I really don´t care for the agri products though, got an Agri Eco in the direct vincinity...)
At A4a I´ll build a T1 civilian port so I get the surface refinery-mats (its a rocky as well) which will be followed by a Coriolis around that one (besides of 3 Comms and a Government Installation at other places for the T2 points and sec).
Now A2 is a terrestrial Waterworld, I´d like to place a civilian outpost there as well (for the 500k population boost) which will result in an Agri eco. Terrible Idea or will that have no effect on the refineries (I really don´t care for the agri products though, got an Agri Eco in the direct vincinity...)
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It doesn't sound like you're building anything in this system which will generate weak links, so you should be able to keep your Agri/Tourism at the WW separate from your Refineries elsewhere.
Fwiw, although it's never been determined if standard market- trade of biowaste causes outbreak, supply and delivery missions for biowaste definitely does, and since agri is the only economy that has biowaste as an import, its the only economy to generate missions to source/ deliver biowaste to them... and therefore are more susceptible to outbreak.My suspicion is that economies which are water intensive, like refineries or industrial economies, leave very little leftover for sanitation (or toilets for that matter).
Ironically, agricultural economies tend to generate excess water supplies unless there is a drought or blight condition.
These are just guesses, the dynamics of system economics don't always follow the logical path
The current interface doesn't show these effects anymore, but they still happen.
Side-effect of War state, but not in the way we think it first. Remember the official "Dav's Sheet", Combat Bonds = Outbreak up
Public Holliday state is similar, based on Wine delivery missions.
That seems dubious? I thought if nothing else Wine delivery might cause security down (or economy down? I forget which), but I'd never seen wine cause outbreak up?
EDIT: Dammit, you're making me install LEGACY Horizons to check now. LEGACY! What is the world coming to?!?
Yes, economy down, like all other Legal Drugs, like Beer. But not Outbreak up, its about the Biowaste delivery missions.
A T1 Science Ground Outpost strong linked to a large Tourism settlement got me 1658 HE Suits, 671 Robotics, and Gold demand of 9838 with a price of 51179 credits. Palladium is 15192 demand with a price of 53975. I have all the high tech goodies in stock.
Great idea, @Ian Doncaster !
Great idea, @Ian Doncaster !
Since there's some speculation but nobody seems to actually know about them, I've built a Civilian Hub (plus prerequesite small Agri settlement) in the previously single-outpost Col 285 Sector YX-R b5-3. Population today is 122k from the outpost being there for a couple months, let's see what happens tomorrow/over this week.
Ah sorry, your wording seemed to imply that wine deliveries caused outbreak. Thanks for clarifying!
I have inadvertantly tested THAT.
I have two systems that contain a T3 orbital and (almost) nothing else. One orbits an icy world; the other an ELW. The one over the icy world also has a couple of agricultural settlements in the system.
The icy one was claimed in the first minutes of trailblazers, so started gaining population as soon as the increased pop growth rates started, and is now up to 26.2 million, presumably towards the end of it's pop gain decreasing returns.
The ELW one came online almost two weeks ago, and has been gaining ~43 million per tick, and is now up to 564.7 million. It has yet to hit decreasing returns, although if 13 turns is when that starts then it might be about to.
If this is what you meant by a "water world bonus" then there is definitely an ELW bonus.
I would say it’s a combination of station and planet but possibly also economy. Not totally sure on economy side but one refinery system of mine has around 4 million pop at this point with a Coriolis and T1 planetary (regular non-atmospheric HMC with geologicals) while another on an also non-terraformable world with organics, giving it agriculture (and terraforming) on top of extraction and refinery has a population of 10+ million. Someone mentioned agriculture might have higher populations anyway.
Saying that the second refinery was also built post-update 3, which may play into things.
Meanwhile my pre-U3 Orbis primary around a (terraformable) water world is either approaching or just about crossed 800 million with relatively little else in the system yet. One space farm, and some installations(relay station + either 2 satellites or 1 satellite and 1 comms). I’ve yet to put anything on the terraformable high-metal contents to ascertain their value, but also not likely to happen until we have more info on the future of economies in this ‘beta’.
Saying that the second refinery was also built post-update 3, which may play into things.
Meanwhile my pre-U3 Orbis primary around a (terraformable) water world is either approaching or just about crossed 800 million with relatively little else in the system yet. One space farm, and some installations(relay station + either 2 satellites or 1 satellite and 1 comms). I’ve yet to put anything on the terraformable high-metal contents to ascertain their value, but also not likely to happen until we have more info on the future of economies in this ‘beta’.