Devs: Please make Engineer upgrades for the hardcore players — explorers and traders

[Vitamin Arrr]

I noticed that with the exception of FSDs, basically all engineer upgrades are combat focused that I've seen so far.

I realize Frontier wants to cater to the kids who play Elite for its casual, arcade-style fighter pilot style combat, which is very cool—I like souping up an Eagle, breaking out a joystick, and on occasion heading out to the Hi Res to snipe kills just as much as the next guy—on the other hand I think it would be nice too if Frontier were to cater to the hardcore players: the explorers and traders.

Y'know, the players who are so hardcore they grind and grind for hundreds of hours through unexciting and seemingly banal tasks, managing spreadsheets, making maps, even writing software—tasks not nearly flashy or pew-pewy enough to excite the arcade crowd, but that are the sole dominion of hardcore players. I mean, you have to be frakkin' hardcore to have written actual software and full websites like EliteGalaxyOnline.com, universalcartographics.org, TradeDangerous, and the countless others of tools for trading and exploring, which really make the Elite Dangerous community something special.

So I find it odd that Frontier chose not to cater to our needs in this update with Engineers. Outside of the FSD upgrades, there appear to be no engineers that offer customizations for the tools of our trades. I realize all the new combat powers are necessary for selling games to the Call of Duty crowd, so I am totally fine with Frontier having tackled the arcade kids first. But as for the mass player base of hardcore adults, the economists and scientists of this game, these combat upgrades are really things that will potentially just make our lives much more difficult and force us out of being able to play the game as we were accustomed, at worst, and at best, they are more or less irrelevant to our lives.

So (and I'm sure I'm not the first, but hey) I'd like to propose some special upgrades that would cater more to the hardcore players than to the combat guys. I propose you add Engineer upgrades to help our abilities to do our chosen in-game professions: mining, trading, exploring, and smuggling, and also, to help counter the new increased threats we face as a result of the other things that you added.

Proposed new upgrades:
Cargo Holds
- Faraday Cage Cargo Holds — reduced capacity but impervious to scans; appears empty to pirates and authorities
- Efficiently Stacked Cargo Holds — increases capacity at the expense that some cargo may be destroyed if your ship overheats

Limpets
- Turbocharged Limpets — faster limpets mods for those Fuel Rats guys (some of the most hardcore players of any game that I've ever seen) or for PowerPlay/Pirate guys in a hurry to grab-n-go
- Self-Confident Collectors — collector limpets that don't commit suicide
- Autonomous Prospector — he's able to take back off from his perch and go to the next asteroid when he reaches zero percent
- Hull-burrowing Limpets — collector limpets that double as shield-penetrating, hull-burrowing droids that collect on the outside hull of a ship and gradually chew through its wiring
- Hull-melting Limpets — collector limpets that burrow through the shield and then release an internal store of antimatter, causing a thermal cascade on the enemy's hull and serious hull damage

Scanners
- Omnidirectional Detail Scanner — works on your target as long as it's in range, no need to point your nose cone at the darn thing
- High Speed Detail Scanner — uses more power but is faster and has a longer range

Sensors
- Scan-Targeting Sensors — Upgraded sensors that automatically target the last NPC who scanned you
- Combat Rating Sensors — now your radar shows a different symbol for each guy's combat rating
- Shield/Hull Sensors — now your radar shows a shield and hull bar above and below each ship reticle

Cargo Hatch
- Trolling Carbon Nanotube Net — cargo hatch with a deployable net so you can just trawl up all the good stuff
- Magnetic Hatch — sucks in anything that magnetic forces would act upon within a 10m range

Ship Computer Firmware
- Intelligent Escape Routines — upgraded control systems that automatically close cargo hatch, retract gear, and retract hardpoints whenever FSD is engaged
- Intelligent Power Manager — automatically rebalances power to prioritize shields in combat and engines out of combat, but intelligently fills in the gaps when you need it
- Intelligent Route Planner — engaging FSD to Hyperspace with no target selected automatically selects the star nearest to the direction your ship is pointed; clicking again selects the farthest along the same direction; if you're low on fuel it limits itself to scoopable stars

SRV
- Base Jumper — gives you longer boost but generates heat
- Ice Tires — metal studded tires for ice worlds, better traction but lower speed
- Grappling Hook — helps you get up any slope too steep
- Directional boost — if you fire the boost while throttle forward is pressed, the booster shoots backwards instead of down, for a speed boost that generates heat
- Extra Cargo Rack — Puts 3 tons of cargo instead of 2, at the expense of speed

Docking Computer
- Hover Controller — your ship hovers over your position on the ground and offer supporting fire on your target or deploys limpets to pick up cargo you designate
- High-G Lander — a docking computer that can negotiate those tricky planetary landings especially useful on high-G worlds.. downside is it plays death metal

Defensive Weapons
- Wide Arc Turrets — on the big slow Anacondas the weapon placement is ridiculous, how about turrets with a much wider arc that are all positioned around the perimeter of the ship instead of coming out of the top and bottom?
- Rear-facing weapons — for traders and explorers, fleeing is the new black, so how about some rear-facing huge and medium weapons to make suckas think twice

Defensive Thrusters
- Sideways Boost — "turn boosters" that make your boost give you a quick, super-fast turn if you are in the midst of turning when they fire, so that big slow ships can pull a quick maneuver to face that annoying ship that's in their blind spot
- Backwards Boost — kind of the engines version of rear-facing weapons. Now you can boost in reverse so that you're able to lay down massive fire while escaping

Defensive Measures
- Extended Duration Chaffs — 'nuff said
- Extended Duration Sensor Jammer — mods your ECM to jam the other guy's sensors so he can't target you for 10 seconds
- Negative Energy Capacitor — a capacitor that stores a massive amount of negative energy, which can be fired off to get out of an interdiction. sends the guy interdicting you through a wormhole to a random system somewhere in the galaxy

So yeah, these are just some thoughts.

Many of these powers are things that could be special effects of other more plain upgrades. In terms of lots of special powers and abilities, it seems that it would not be balanced unless they are available for not just the for-fun, casual combat guys but also the hardcore explorers and traders, smugglers and miners—all the different professions—so there are just as many for defensive as for offensive purposes. Considering that most of the hardcore players of this game are not so much into combat (it's only a third of the three "Elite" things you can get ranked in, in the main game, are combat-related), it would be nice to see some more balance to what you can upgrade.

I just think it will be fun to see some pirates attack a miner and end up with their hull melting off. Or to send the next guy who interdicts me to the Formidine Rift

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Yes, Just, yes... to everything here

 

[CMDR Goldenboyjim]

Can any of these be correlated to existing in-game technology, components, machinery, etc? What I am asking is, are there descriptions for these things that already exist in game, you just need to make them an equitable item.

That said, I like a lot of your ideas. I really like the way you modified limpets. I was thinking of writing up a limpet that actually collects passengers, escape pods, and cry chambers, so pirates can mine for slaves from passenger ships, what do you think, worthwhile to write up or a little too dark?

 

[Lestat]

Ok some of the ideas look pretty good. Let take the scanners. Power usage on a explorer ship kinda funny. Most are very little power. People are disabling things they don't need. Why not add slight Heat damage or extra Wear and tear for the module. You might have to repair more. But people get planet and such scan faster.

Now the SRV. Ice tires. What about Sand Dune tires. If you don't know what I talking about type in ATV Sand Dune Tires

 

[Mengy]

Yeah I was disappointed to see a lack of blueprints for non combat players too, but it was expected with FDev’s intense focus on combat at all times. Good ideas OP, but they don’t seem to care judging by the direction of content delivered by each major update. Maybe one day it will change.

 

[Lestat]

My guess it will come it just going to take time.

 

[Killing Joke]

I realize Frontier wants to cater to the kids who play Elite for its casual, arcade-style fighter pilot style combat

I'll be honest, this is where I stopped reading. You may well raise some excellent points and have some fantastic ideas but opening with a derogatory statement removes any credibility. Additionally based on the thread title you're potentially alienating a significant portion of the playerbase by catering to those you would deem as "hardcore".

Just a couple of thoughts.

 

[Halfmuh]

Great that i'm not alone in feel that explorers recive much less than pew pew
my thread on reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/eliteexplo...ploration_modules_modifications_there_is_too/
[upd]
also
thought about FSD experimental effects
-stealth supercruise
the lighter is your ship compared to the optimal mass of fsd the less chance of npc interdiction/ smaller detection radius on supercruise radar.

- supercruise accelleration/moblity/less effected by massive objects? (yep i know lots of people already thought of that, dont knoq why FDevs listen to whiners about hard AI but do nothing to make engeneers as diverse for explorers as for pew pew)

-faster charge (based on mass to oplimal mass relation)

What about hangar lesser mass upgrade
there can be refuel srv on boarding experimental effect or may be more rares from stones (also solves whines about how is it hard to find materials)

what about heatsink upgrades for ammo (it can make use for everyone) with experimental
-no ammo->no on use effect->passive hean efficiency(or just less close-to-mass-jump heat)

where are fuel scoop upgrades with less heat? more tonns per second?

where are surface scanners experimental with material determination (grade 1 for 2 leaf mats for example)

(ispired by thread about full system scan quests)all those shiny new quest sys, but still no exploration quests. even simple ones (go and pulse with discovery scanner in 130ly from here, in 1k from here. do it in some specific system)


where are shiny anomaly signal sources near BH required for good discoery/surface sacnner upgrades?

 

[Vitamin Arrr]

I'll be honest, this is where I stopped reading. You may well raise some excellent points and have some fantastic ideas but opening with a derogatory statement removes any credibility. Additionally based on the thread title you're potentially alienating a significant portion of the playerbase by catering to those you would deem as "hardcore".

Just a couple of thoughts.

Sorry mate, it wasn't intended as an insult at all. I too love the arcade style play, it takes me back to Gradius on NES with its powerups. I figured that's what they were going after with all these new powerups in 2.1. It's pretty clear with heal lasers and such that they're making a clean break from the realistic simulation type play this game has been known for and heading off in more of a Star Trek Online direction in terms of the moddable powers and role-based combat (healer/DPS/tank etc.). But I guess if combat type players consider themselves hardcore too, then I suppose I could see how that might seem offensive.

Lets just consider that we're all hardcore... just in different ways.

 

[Killing Joke]

I agree with you 100% about crap like the healing lasers.

I loved the 'simulation' side of the game, if anything I'd have loved for a harsher more realistic simulation using full Newtonian physics as opposed to what we have at the moment.

I think that the modifications available fail to cater for all playstyles, as you've already pointed out but from a combat perspective even the combat mods make little sense on many levels I.e. incendiary rounds should be an ammo option. Not a weapon mod.

I could go on but it's awkward on my phone ��

I'll read your post later from the comfort of my computer. ��

 

[Sandmann]

I'm not 100% on board with every single one of them, but there's some damn fine ideas in here and I'd back it in principle. +1 to you sir, hope the devs pay attention/care about the non pew-pew game.

 

[Fosdyke]

I noticed that with the exception of FSDs, basically all engineer upgrades are combat focused that I've seen so far.

I realize Frontier wants to cater to the kids who play Elite for its casual, arcade-style fighter pilot style combat, which is very cool—I like souping up an Eagle, breaking out a joystick, and on occasion heading out to the Hi Res to snipe kills just as much as the next guy—on the other hand I think it would be nice too if Frontier were to cater to the hardcore players: the explorers and traders.

Y'know, the players who are so hardcore they grind and grind for hundreds of hours through unexciting and seemingly banal tasks, managing spreadsheets, making maps, even writing software—tasks not nearly flashy or pew-pewy enough to excite the arcade crowd, but that are the sole dominion of hardcore players. I mean, you have to be frakkin' hardcore to have written actual software and full websites like EliteGalaxyOnline.com, universalcartographics.org, TradeDangerous, and the countless others of tools for trading and exploring, which really make the Elite Dangerous community something special.

So I find it odd that Frontier chose not to cater to our needs in this update with Engineers. Outside of the FSD upgrades, there appear to be no engineers that offer customizations for the tools of our trades. I realize all the new combat powers are necessary for selling games to the Call of Duty crowd, so I am totally fine with Frontier having tackled the arcade kids first. But as for the mass player base of hardcore adults, the economists and scientists of this game, these combat upgrades are really things that will potentially just make our lives much more difficult and force us out of being able to play the game as we were accustomed, at worst, and at best, they are more or less irrelevant to our lives.

So (and I'm sure I'm not the first, but hey) I'd like to propose some special upgrades that would cater more to the hardcore players than to the combat guys. I propose you add Engineer upgrades to help our abilities to do our chosen in-game professions: mining, trading, exploring, and smuggling, and also, to help counter the new increased threats we face as a result of the other things that you added.

Proposed new upgrades:
Cargo Holds
- Faraday Cage Cargo Holds — reduced capacity but impervious to scans; appears empty to pirates and authorities
- Efficiently Stacked Cargo Holds — increases capacity at the expense that some cargo may be destroyed if your ship overheats

Limpets
- Turbocharged Limpets — faster limpets mods for those Fuel Rats guys (some of the most hardcore players of any game that I've ever seen) or for PowerPlay/Pirate guys in a hurry to grab-n-go
- Self-Confident Collectors — collector limpets that don't commit suicide
- Autonomous Prospector — he's able to take back off from his perch and go to the next asteroid when he reaches zero percent
- Hull-burrowing Limpets — collector limpets that double as shield-penetrating, hull-burrowing droids that collect on the outside hull of a ship and gradually chew through its wiring
- Hull-melting Limpets — collector limpets that burrow through the shield and then release an internal store of antimatter, causing a thermal cascade on the enemy's hull and serious hull damage

Scanners
- Omnidirectional Detail Scanner — works on your target as long as it's in range, no need to point your nose cone at the darn thing
- High Speed Detail Scanner — uses more power but is faster and has a longer range

Sensors
- Scan-Targeting Sensors — Upgraded sensors that automatically target the last NPC who scanned you
- Combat Rating Sensors — now your radar shows a different symbol for each guy's combat rating
- Shield/Hull Sensors — now your radar shows a shield and hull bar above and below each ship reticle

Cargo Hatch
- Trolling Carbon Nanotube Net — cargo hatch with a deployable net so you can just trawl up all the good stuff
- Magnetic Hatch — sucks in anything that magnetic forces would act upon within a 10m range

Ship Computer Firmware
- Intelligent Escape Routines — upgraded control systems that automatically close cargo hatch, retract gear, and retract hardpoints whenever FSD is engaged
- Intelligent Power Manager — automatically rebalances power to prioritize shields in combat and engines out of combat, but intelligently fills in the gaps when you need it
- Intelligent Route Planner — engaging FSD to Hyperspace with no target selected automatically selects the star nearest to the direction your ship is pointed; clicking again selects the farthest along the same direction; if you're low on fuel it limits itself to scoopable stars

SRV
- Base Jumper — gives you longer boost but generates heat
- Ice Tires — metal studded tires for ice worlds, better traction but lower speed
- Grappling Hook — helps you get up any slope too steep
- Directional boost — if you fire the boost while throttle forward is pressed, the booster shoots backwards instead of down, for a speed boost that generates heat
- Extra Cargo Rack — Puts 3 tons of cargo instead of 2, at the expense of speed

Docking Computer
- Hover Controller — your ship hovers over your position on the ground and offer supporting fire on your target or deploys limpets to pick up cargo you designate
- High-G Lander — a docking computer that can negotiate those tricky planetary landings especially useful on high-G worlds.. downside is it plays death metal

Defensive Weapons
- Wide Arc Turrets — on the big slow Anacondas the weapon placement is ridiculous, how about turrets with a much wider arc that are all positioned around the perimeter of the ship instead of coming out of the top and bottom?
- Rear-facing weapons — for traders and explorers, fleeing is the new black, so how about some rear-facing huge and medium weapons to make suckas think twice

Defensive Thrusters
- Sideways Boost — "turn boosters" that make your boost give you a quick, super-fast turn if you are in the midst of turning when they fire, so that big slow ships can pull a quick maneuver to face that annoying ship that's in their blind spot
- Backwards Boost — kind of the engines version of rear-facing weapons. Now you can boost in reverse so that you're able to lay down massive fire while escaping

Defensive Measures
- Extended Duration Chaffs — 'nuff said
- Extended Duration Sensor Jammer — mods your ECM to jam the other guy's sensors so he can't target you for 10 seconds
- Negative Energy Capacitor — a capacitor that stores a massive amount of negative energy, which can be fired off to get out of an interdiction. sends the guy interdicting you through a wormhole to a random system somewhere in the galaxy

So yeah, these are just some thoughts.

Many of these powers are things that could be special effects of other more plain upgrades. In terms of lots of special powers and abilities, it seems that it would not be balanced unless they are available for not just the for-fun, casual combat guys but also the hardcore explorers and traders, smugglers and miners—all the different professions—so there are just as many for defensive as for offensive purposes. Considering that most of the hardcore players of this game are not so much into combat (it's only a third of the three "Elite" things you can get ranked in, in the main game, are combat-related), it would be nice to see some more balance to what you can upgrade.

I just think it will be fun to see some pirates attack a miner and end up with their hull melting off. Or to send the next guy who interdicts me to the Formidine Rift

Quite a bunch of neat ideas other there i think FD concentrate on combat first then we get some nice things like you suggest but later in the season and subsequent ones.

 

[Vitamin Arrr]

I noticed that with the exception of FSDs, basically all engineer upgrades are combat focused that I've seen so far.

I realize Frontier wants to cater to the kids who play Elite for its casual, arcade-style fighter pilot style combat, which is very cool—I like souping up an Eagle, breaking out a joystick, and on occasion heading out to the Hi Res to snipe kills just as much as the next guy—on the other hand I think it would be nice too if Frontier were to cater to the hardcore players: the explorers and traders.

Y'know, the players who are so hardcore they grind and grind for hundreds of hours through unexciting and seemingly banal tasks, managing spreadsheets, making maps, even writing software—tasks not nearly flashy or pew-pewy enough to excite the arcade crowd, but that are the sole dominion of hardcore players. I mean, you have to be frakkin' hardcore to have written actual software and full websites like EliteGalaxyOnline.com, universalcartographics.org, TradeDangerous, and the countless others of tools for trading and exploring, which really make the Elite Dangerous community something special.

So I find it odd that Frontier chose not to cater to our needs in this update with Engineers. Outside of the FSD upgrades, there appear to be no engineers that offer customizations for the tools of our trades. I realize all the new combat powers are necessary for selling games to the Call of Duty crowd, so I am totally fine with Frontier having tackled the arcade kids first. But as for the mass player base of hardcore adults, the economists and scientists of this game, these combat upgrades are really things that will potentially just make our lives much more difficult and force us out of being able to play the game as we were accustomed, at worst, and at best, they are more or less irrelevant to our lives.

So (and I'm sure I'm not the first, but hey) I'd like to propose some special upgrades that would cater more to the hardcore players than to the combat guys. I propose you add Engineer upgrades to help our abilities to do our chosen in-game professions: mining, trading, exploring, and smuggling, and also, to help counter the new increased threats we face as a result of the other things that you added.

Proposed new upgrades:
Cargo Holds
- Faraday Cage Cargo Holds — reduced capacity but impervious to scans; appears empty to pirates and authorities
- Efficiently Stacked Cargo Holds — increases capacity at the expense that some cargo may be destroyed if your ship overheats

Limpets
- Turbocharged Limpets — faster limpets mods for those Fuel Rats guys (some of the most hardcore players of any game that I've ever seen) or for PowerPlay/Pirate guys in a hurry to grab-n-go
- Self-Confident Collectors — collector limpets that don't commit suicide
- Autonomous Prospector — he's able to take back off from his perch and go to the next asteroid when he reaches zero percent
- Hull-burrowing Limpets — collector limpets that double as shield-penetrating, hull-burrowing droids that collect on the outside hull of a ship and gradually chew through its wiring
- Hull-melting Limpets — collector limpets that burrow through the shield and then release an internal store of antimatter, causing a thermal cascade on the enemy's hull and serious hull damage

Scanners
- Omnidirectional Detail Scanner — works on your target as long as it's in range, no need to point your nose cone at the darn thing
- High Speed Detail Scanner — uses more power but is faster and has a longer range

Sensors
- Scan-Targeting Sensors — Upgraded sensors that automatically target the last NPC who scanned you
- Combat Rating Sensors — now your radar shows a different symbol for each guy's combat rating
- Shield/Hull Sensors — now your radar shows a shield and hull bar above and below each ship reticle

Cargo Hatch
- Trolling Carbon Nanotube Net — cargo hatch with a deployable net so you can just trawl up all the good stuff
- Magnetic Hatch — sucks in anything that magnetic forces would act upon within a 10m range

Ship Computer Firmware
- Intelligent Escape Routines — upgraded control systems that automatically close cargo hatch, retract gear, and retract hardpoints whenever FSD is engaged
- Intelligent Power Manager — automatically rebalances power to prioritize shields in combat and engines out of combat, but intelligently fills in the gaps when you need it
- Intelligent Route Planner — engaging FSD to Hyperspace with no target selected automatically selects the star nearest to the direction your ship is pointed; clicking again selects the farthest along the same direction; if you're low on fuel it limits itself to scoopable stars

SRV
- Base Jumper — gives you longer boost but generates heat
- Ice Tires — metal studded tires for ice worlds, better traction but lower speed
- Grappling Hook — helps you get up any slope too steep
- Directional boost — if you fire the boost while throttle forward is pressed, the booster shoots backwards instead of down, for a speed boost that generates heat
- Extra Cargo Rack — Puts 3 tons of cargo instead of 2, at the expense of speed

Docking Computer
- Hover Controller — your ship hovers over your position on the ground and offer supporting fire on your target or deploys limpets to pick up cargo you designate
- High-G Lander — a docking computer that can negotiate those tricky planetary landings especially useful on high-G worlds.. downside is it plays death metal

Defensive Weapons
- Wide Arc Turrets — on the big slow Anacondas the weapon placement is ridiculous, how about turrets with a much wider arc that are all positioned around the perimeter of the ship instead of coming out of the top and bottom?
- Rear-facing weapons — for traders and explorers, fleeing is the new black, so how about some rear-facing huge and medium weapons to make suckas think twice

Defensive Thrusters
- Sideways Boost — "turn boosters" that make your boost give you a quick, super-fast turn if you are in the midst of turning when they fire, so that big slow ships can pull a quick maneuver to face that annoying ship that's in their blind spot
- Backwards Boost — kind of the engines version of rear-facing weapons. Now you can boost in reverse so that you're able to lay down massive fire while escaping

Defensive Measures
- Extended Duration Chaffs — 'nuff said
- Extended Duration Sensor Jammer — mods your ECM to jam the other guy's sensors so he can't target you for 10 seconds
- Negative Energy Capacitor — a capacitor that stores a massive amount of negative energy, which can be fired off to get out of an interdiction. sends the guy interdicting you through a wormhole to a random system somewhere in the galaxy

So yeah, these are just some thoughts.

Many of these powers are things that could be special effects of other more plain upgrades. In terms of lots of special powers and abilities, it seems that it would not be balanced unless they are available for not just the for-fun, casual combat guys but also the hardcore explorers and traders, smugglers and miners—all the different professions—so there are just as many for defensive as for offensive purposes. Considering that most of the hardcore players of this game are not so much into combat (it's only a third of the three "Elite" things you can get ranked in, in the main game, are combat-related), it would be nice to see some more balance to what you can upgrade.

I just think it will be fun to see some pirates attack a miner and end up with their hull melting off. Or to send the next guy who interdicts me to the Formidine Rift

Wow FDev actually put in some of these ideas, like the wide range and faster Detailed Surfacr Scanners. What about the rest, guys?