Different mindsets when playing Elite: Dangerous

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Hey there. I've had a thought recently and wanted to see what other players think. Bear with me for a longish introduction to my opinion piece . I've kept this post in the VR section although it theoretically concerns all players, but... hey. This isn't some kind of elitism, it's about how VR is a game changer (big news, we all knew that before ).

The other day I watched a review of another space exploration game by an ex-Elite content creator (I know, I shouldn't have). While trying really hard not to mention (and compare to) Elite by name, it was quite clear that that's what he was referring to in his descriptions how this other game did everything better than any other space game out there (I'm paraphrasing). But this review is not what this post is about; it's about two specific expressions that were used in the video over and over: The first was "respecting the player's time" (referring to the amount of "grind" the player is forced to do), and the second was "the tediousness of space flight". That last one especially stuck with me.

Concerning the "grind" part: I am around 1700 hours into the game and have not really done the "grind". Of course I have done things to come to where I am now that can be seen as grind; yes, I recently spent hours going back and forth hauling tritium to fill my pockets at the cash grab CG, I've done the Robigo passenger route, I've spent hours in icy rings mining LTDs, I've played mailman to gain superpower rank... but I never felt I was grinding. But then again I didn't really follow any of the "best start", "fastest this" and "most efficient that" guides on the internet and especially Youtube (although I did play the Dav's Hope game in the beginning of my Pilot's carrer, but it quickly turned from collecting mats to seeing how fast I can do a round on the course). I'm no saint, but from some point on I refused to play the relog game, and I regularely skip those CGs that promote this no matter how sweet the reward.

And then, when I thought again about the odd expression "tediousness of space flight" (in a game about space ships... ) I think I figured out why I never really felt the "grind". Maybe not everyone sees ED as a game about space ships... (cue the Odyssey-strap-on-FPS comments).

I think I never felt grind or got bored in supercruise was because I have a different view on the game, coming specifically from playing in VR. When I play Elite, I am sitting in a frickin' space ship! I don't care what I do as long as I can fly it. Sitting in the cockpit and flying around (or, by extension, driving around in the SRV) is my sole purpose. Everything else is a bonus.

So this is where I thought about two possible mindsets when it comes to playing ED. The one is (and that would be the one I would attribute to most players in pancake) seeing the different activities in ED as the core element, and that's what one expects to be kept entertaining and diversifying by Frontier to keep the game worth playing. The ships and the spaceflight is just a means to an end, a tool to enable them doing missions, gaining rank, earning credits, engage in competition, and so on.

The other one, the mindset I subscribe to, is: Flying the ship is the core element. Everything else is just something to give me a reason to fly somewhere. I don't care if I deliver a letter, blow up rocks or chase a criminal... I'm in a space ship. Flying in space. Looking at space stuff. I never really got the fascination with (real life) flight simulators. Yay, you get to fly a 747 across the atlantic. How boring, sitting in a chair watching the clouds roll by (and on a single flat screen I still think it is very boring ). But with ED, I get it. I'm flying in space. Nothing else around me. Everything else I get to do is just a bonus.

What do you think?

 

[Old Duck]

[...]it's about how VR is a game changer [...]

I think I never felt grind or got bored in supercruise was because I have a different view on the game, coming specifically from playing in VR. When I play Elite, I am sitting in a frickin' space ship! I don't care what I do as long as I can fly it. Sitting in the cockpit and flying around (or, by extension, driving around in the SRV) is my sole purpose.

[...]
I never really got the fascination with (real life) flight simulators. Yay, you get to fly a 747 across the atlantic. How boring, sitting in a chair watching the clouds roll by (and on a single flat screen I still think it is very boring ). But with ED, I get it. I'm flying in space. Nothing else around me. Everything else I get to do is just a bonus.

I'm in the opposite camp, where flying a flight sim is more engaging to me than flying a spaceship in Elite. There are two reasons for this. First, there is usually more to see in a flight sim (though I rarely do trans-Atlantic flights, you picked an easy "target" there). Scenery, clouds, weather, water, atmospheric phenomena, and if you fly at night, gorgeous stars! In Elite in supercuise, you see - gorgeous stars. Yes, I know you can also see amazing suns and planets at the beginning and end of your journey, just like you can see amazing cities and airports at the end of your trans-Atlantic flight in a sim. But for a long Supercruise journey, I'm just sitting and watching a Windows 95 screensaver, and that gets kinda boring after awhile, even in VR.

The second reason is that I am usually responsible for a lot more when flying a sim rather than my Elite spaceship (again, comparing Supercruise to a cross-country flight). Even with the plane / jet on autopilot, I've got to watch weather conditions, icing, manifold temperature and pressures, fuel consumption, etc. I also am handing off from one ATC to the next while traversing different airspace, which may require altitude and heading changes. In Elite, I just point my ship at my destination and sit back and wait. Granted, there may be rare occasions when I need to "fly around" the gravity well of a planet that's in my path, or shake an interdiction (which gets real old real after awhile), but for the most part I'm just sitting and watching a Windows 95 screensaver... Wait, I already said that!

So this is where I thought about two possible mindsets when it comes to playing ED. The one is (and that would be the one I would attribute to most players in pancake) seeing the different activities in ED as the core element, and that's what one expects to be kept entertaining and diversifying by Frontier to keep the game worth playing. The ships and the spaceflight is just a means to an end, a tool to enable them doing missions, gaining rank, earning credits, engage in competition, and so on.

The other one, the mindset I subscribe to, is: Flying the ship is the core element. Everything else is just something to give me a reason to fly somewhere. I don't care if I deliver a letter, blow up rocks or chase a criminal... I'm in a space ship. Flying in space. Looking at space stuff.

What do you think?

I do both. If I'm hauling (which I tend to get bored with relatively quickly so I don't do it much), I do this on my 2D screen as it allows me to get up and walk around IRL, check the forum, or do some chores while my game is in Windows 95 screensaver mode. Hauling is indeed a means to an end. I also explore in 2D, but for a different reason. Exploring is where I do care about what I am seeing, and I'd rather explore with a crisp starfield in 2K or 4K ultra graphics settings rather than the more blurry experience of my Rift S. Also, the FSS is a 2D tool, so it just makes sense to me to use it on a 2D screen and spare myself having a hot box strapped to my head. Now if I find a really cool planet to land on, then I might switch to VR to "be there in person", but usually my brain can "interpolate" that feeling from a big high-def screen, especially since I've been in VR enough to know what it would be like in VR.

Where I totally agree with you is when it comes to space combat. That's when I am truly "flying my spaceship", and VR provides an experience unparalleled in any other game I own. I love installation defense, because the installation provides a really nice frame of reference, usually in orbit of a nice planet, and you get fleet-vs-fleet combat which I find more immersive than small me-vs-pirate fights. Flying and dodging through enemy ships, whipping my head around as my target flies past me (sometimes literally ducking if he comes too close), flying through the explosions and debris of destroyed ships, and just looking around and taking in the battle from all directions, that's an experience! And while it's nice to get credits to pay off my fleet carrier, I defend installations purely for the thrill of flying my ship (which usually is an engineered Cobra or Eagle, because those ships are actually fun to fly).

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Thanks for your input!

[...] trans-Atlantic flights, you picked an easy "target" there). [...]

Of course I did pick an easy target, that's how hyperbole works . But partly that's what I always thought about flight sims. I have rectified this opinion a bit lately though, als I finally bought FS2020. As I know nothing about planes and flying them I'm still in the "overwhelmed" phase (though got a Cessna to take off and land again and was mighty proud of myself!), and I'm struggling with performance (more than with Elite). I still wouldn't do it on a flat screen though; in VR it's actually intriguing. Which actually buys into my point above, I approach it with a different mindset in VR.

I do both. If I'm hauling (which I tend to get bored with relatively quickly so I don't do it much), I do this on my 2D screen as it allows me to get up and walk around IRL, check the forum, or do some chores while my game is in Windows 95 screensaver mode. Hauling is indeed a means to an end. I also explore in 2D, but for a different reason. Exploring is where I do care about what I am seeing, and I'd rather explore with a crisp starfield in 2K or 4K ultra graphics settings rather than the more blurry experience of my Rift S. Also, the FSS is a 2D tool, so it just makes sense to me to use it on a 2D screen and spare myself having a hot box strapped to my head. Now if I find a really cool planet to land on, then I might switch to VR to "be there in person", but usually my brain can "interpolate" that feeling from a big high-def screen, especially since I've been in VR enough to know what it would be like in VR.

I care more about the sense of space and scale than visual fidelity. I agree that the Rift S tends to be a blurry mess though, at least compared to more modern headsets. When I moved to the Reverb G2 I had some real "wow" moments. Also I felt that the world scale was wrong in the Rift S. When I put on the G2 for the first time I felt like everything had finally the right size (including my hands and feet).

When I'm exploring I usually have a desktop window pinned with EDMC and ICARUS. A little "immersion" breaking (I hate that word), but I prefer the practicality. This also gives me access to the browser for 3rd party tools and other stuff. I wish I could make the WMR window look like a ship panel.

Where I totally agree with you is when it comes to space combat. That's when I am truly "flying my spaceship", and VR provides an experience unparalleled in any other game I own. I love installation defense, because the installation provides a really nice frame of reference, usually in orbit of a nice planet, and you get fleet-vs-fleet combat which I find more immersive than small me-vs-pirate fights. Flying and dodging through enemy ships, whipping my head around as my target flies past me (sometimes literally ducking if he comes too close), flying through the explosions and debris of destroyed ships, and just looking around and taking in the battle from all directions, that's an experience! And while it's nice to get credits to pay off my fleet carrier, I defend installations purely for the thrill of flying my ship (which usually is an engineered Cobra or Eagle, because those ships are actually fun to fly).

I agree, but actually I like core mining a bit more than bounty hunting, it's just that I really don't need the credits anymore. I prefer RES sites for NPC combat for the same reason, I love zipping around in between the rocks.

Edit: Oh, and I can't fly in 2D. I couldn't hit the mail slot with the ADC, probably because I never did it. I bought ED after I got my first headset, and wouldn't have bothered with it had it not been for VR. Doesn't help that my VR chair and HOTAS are actually away from my desk either, and I can't get the HOTAS placed comfortably at my desk.

 

[Old Duck]

I agree, but actually I like core mining a bit more than bounty hunting

Oh yes, I forgot to add mining to my "much better in VR" list! I just don't do much mining these days except for Tritium or when I want to stock up on materials, due to not needing the credits.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

The issue as I see it is having learnt how to play the game I struggle to find a good reason to put what I've leant into practice, its all just repeat repeat for no real outcome.

I guess I'm in the 'ships are a means to an end' mindset then, struggling to find what that end is.

I do agree that many of the core mechanics like space flight, FSD jumping and refuelling are much better in VR but it still gets a bit dull after a while.

On the plus side I am genuinely interested to see what becomes of the narrative content being added that could be enough of an incentive to fly again.

 

[Mark Zero]

The other one, the mindset I subscribe to, is: Flying the ship is the core element. Everything else is just something to give me a reason to fly somewhere. I don't care if I deliver a letter, blow up rocks or chase a criminal... I'm in a space ship. Flying in space. Looking at space stuff. I never really got the fascination with (real life) flight simulators. Yay, you get to fly a 747 across the atlantic. How boring, sitting in a chair watching the clouds roll by (and on a single flat screen I still think it is very boring ). But with ED, I get it. I'm flying in space. Nothing else around me. Everything else I get to do is just a bonus.

This. Thisthisthisthis. All of this right here.

I think part of the reason why I look at a lot of the usual complaints ("the game is grindy" "content is shallow" "I want to walk around the interior" "they killed VR by not including on-foot VR at launch") and disagree is exactly what you summed up here. With the exception of getting out and walking around/doing on-foot content, the entire point of Elite Dangerous is being in that cockpit chair.

Every single mission in the game is just a thing I can do while flying my spaceship. Every material gathering task I can do is a reason to fly my spaceship, with the objective of making my spaceship better at whatever I like to fly it for. Every community goal is a narrative-influencing activity for flying my spaceship. My fleet carrier's sole point is so that I can fly more of my spaceships more often, and move them more conveniently. At the end of the day, the core draw and most important thing is how much I love flying my spaceship.

And in VR, it is the coolest freaking thing I have ever done in a game. It's like being on an immersion ride at Disney World but I have the controls. Dogfighting in VR is amazing and I do not care at all that there aren't deep, narrative, "you are the hero-est hero" motivations for doing it. I don't care about having the perfect weapon loadout or full engineering or an on-meta super efficient build. I don't even care if the credit payouts are low. It is awesome by itself.

People who claim VR in Elite Dangerous is dead just because the on-foot FPS experience is not a full VR motion controller enabled immersive experience (YET) are missing the point of what is so unique about Elite in VR. I can play Half Life Alyx, or Pavlov, or Boneworks, or literally almost all the other VR games if I want to immersively shoot people with guns. It'd be neat to do that in Elite someday but I can fly a freaking spaceship in VR in Elite.

At the end of the day, Elite is a very big, niche game that is a lot of things to a lot of people. It will never "realize its true potential" because its true potential to one person is completely different to its true potential to another person. A dedicated space trucker may see "true potential" as deeper economy mechanics or a player-driven economy. A dedicated PvPer may see "true potential" as forcing everyone into open and tight re-balancing of modules and engineering (or removal of engineering entirely). A dedicated explorer may view "true potential" as earthlike worlds with full, diverse, hand-crafted life unique to every planet. People who enjoy Odyssey's ground game may see "true potential" as the game becoming more like Battlefield or Halo or CounterStrike or whatever their preferred first person shooter is.

But for some folks, Elite's "true potential" is already there; I can fly a spaceship, with a realistic and satisfying flight model, through a realistic and gigantic model of the Milky Way, and I am free to do whatever I want, whenever I want to, wherever I want to do it. For me, manually taking off and landing still makes the serotonin go and I've done it tens of thousands of times. It will never be different, but it will never get boring, because that's where the value is for me. What I do with the spaceship is just details, as long as it's mine and I get to fly it.

I'm glad to see somebody else who gets it. o7 Commander. Never let them tell you it ain't fun.