Thank you so much for this post, a very nice assessment of the most likely situation. Particularly the part I bolded, is the point I had been trying to make in the other thread, with limited success. Very well said.
Dino sizes won't be fixed
- Thread starter SonOfTheSun
- Start date
Thank you so much for this post, a very nice assessment of the most likely situation. Particularly the part I bolded, is the point I had been trying to make in the other thread, with limited success. Very well said.
Fundamentally, if we conducted surveys adopting the appropriate statistical methodology and came to the conclusion that the player base, on average, found the Nublar play-area limiting, wouldn't we conclude that the fundamentals were lacking as gauaged by the player base? I would hope you agree.
Perhaps thats something Frontier should look into before taking a firm stance? Just a thought.
Moreover, I would like to imagine that as dev, you would agree that Sandbox modes are fundamentally a creative outlet for players. Therefore, I find it logical to assume that that element of gameplay would accrue the bulk of save files and iterations. I would also argue that it is where the bulk of hours would be sunk and, more importantly, where the longevity of the game will be determined. I'm sure we could even infer this from analogous titles. However, I concede that the fidelity of those data should be subject to greater scrutiny. Whatever the result, I can't imagine that many people would be in an uproar about more space for a sandbox?
I've also explained at length why I don't like the argument of not wanting to remove players save files; I find it incredibly short sighted and unsustainable in the long-run.
You are right, however, about weighing the rewards and risk of a particular design choice.
The application of my second point, I'd like to think, is fairly obvious in terms of the challenges inherent in overhauling the size of the playable area of Nublar. I think there are quite obvious parallels between a dev team complaining about the esoteric difficulty of changing the fundamentals of game, and a team of scientists attempting to overcome a seemingly impossible task of achieving space flight.
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I expected more at developers. And they give an unconvincing explanation.
Now is not just a matter of size. That is the loss of customer trust in the developers.
There are a lot of articles about dinosaur size. And now devs do not fix a bit. Why should I expect that other wishlists will be made in the future?
I'm so disappointed!
Now is not just a matter of size. That is the loss of customer trust in the developers.
There are a lot of articles about dinosaur size. And now devs do not fix a bit. Why should I expect that other wishlists will be made in the future?
I'm so disappointed!
I agree. If such a practice took place and it was stated as such, then yes, something would have to change. I believe this is a natural process with life in general. If the majority of people find a problem with something, then that something should change to fit the ideals of society. My argument was not necessarily to defend Frontier, but to iterate some points that people may not have considered when posting on a thread.
Likewise I also agree. I certainly hope you didn't perceive my comments as a personal attack. I want to clarify to people that some changes are more costly when considered thoroughly. I for one, don't agree with some of the fundamentals of this game such as lack of day/night cycle, and no challenge mode; however, I feel people should try to understand why certain things might be lacking before they begin attacking. As for your more space, I will get to that below.
Again, I agree. Once more the best part of my job is challenging fundamentals and seeking for solutions. I will state that one solution to overhauling the size of the playable area of Nublar is not to change the map itself, but instead create a second iteration of said map that is larger (as hinted to by Frontier). To go with your space flight argument, I feel this can be applied thusly: while the smaller rocket has a use (smaller Nublar), we may need a bigger rocket with better thrust to weight ratio to reach space (different but larger map and perhaps changes to the game engine to accommodate said larger map). It is possible that the engine (rocket engine if you prefer) for this game is not big enough to handle their current algorithms. If this is the case, then people should understand that such a change may be highly improbable. It really depends on how much effort Frontier is willing to make, and how much time people are willing to wait for said change. Frontier has commented that they are looking into new larger maps; hopefully this means we likely will have new larger sandboxes, but a grain of salt must be taken with this statement.
I feel that I may have been misunderstood. I think that arguments when constructive can bring about the best of ideas, but what I was really commenting on was this statement
I don't understand the crux of this statement, and I am afraid I consider it absurd. Hence I commented seeking for clarification on this statement, and trying to enlighten people on the difference between a bug and a fundamental change. To take another quote from JP 1, "I do not blame people for their [comments], but I do ask that they [consider] them." - John Hammond
I love your well constructed and thorough arguments, and I certainly appreciate that you're considering my point-of-view with your counter arguments. Such a gentlemanly discussion I feel is usually lacking from forums, so thank you for being professional and keeping the personal attacks to a minimum.
yeah i guess it's too late to change their size now (not really but whatever).......it's bad for us as fans but even worse for the developers because this will forever be known as the game with the wrong spinosaurus/giganotosaurus size
they kinda shot themselves in the foot on this one.......oh well.. their choice, their foot.
they kinda shot themselves in the foot on this one.......oh well.. their choice, their foot.
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I find that funny haha. In the database, they said that these two carnivores are the largest than the t-rex, but in reality they are tiny hahaha. Frontier, please reconsider finding a way to change the size of the dinosaurs. It is not that difficult to crack.
You know, the spino actually looks to be about the right size to fit the skeleton of one that the Rex plowed through in Jurassic World...
@SotF
Spinosaurus is 15m lenght in game. So i think the size is acceptable.
Problem is T-rex is 14m. it look like even bigger (bulkier body) Indominus rex (15.5m) and make other dinosaurs tiny. beacause a 14m t-rex is 20% heavier 13.4 rexy.
Of course 12m giganotosaurus need to be fix. If devs change T-rex to 13.4m (rexy size), giganotosaurus about 13.2m, spinosaurus and indominus rex will look bigger t-rex, giganotosaurus as large as t-rex.
Spinosaurus is 15m lenght in game. So i think the size is acceptable.
Problem is T-rex is 14m. it look like even bigger (bulkier body) Indominus rex (15.5m) and make other dinosaurs tiny. beacause a 14m t-rex is 20% heavier 13.4 rexy.
Of course 12m giganotosaurus need to be fix. If devs change T-rex to 13.4m (rexy size), giganotosaurus about 13.2m, spinosaurus and indominus rex will look bigger t-rex, giganotosaurus as large as t-rex.
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why dont they just make new models for the giga and the spino its just two dinos people complain about or at leat they should change the text of their profiles cause this make no sense in their profiles it states that spino and giga are at least as big as t.rex but in game they are not hahahaha this is so stupid
No point throwing a fit, people. There are other issues that are more urgent than model upscaling. I can respect that the Spino and Giga are immersion breaking for you, but you can just avoid placing them in your park for the time being.
They do seem oddly resistant to fixing the game's biggest complaints. I'd rather a developer just say "Eh, we don't feel like fixing it" like the guys over at Guerrilla Games and Sony Interactive did over a bug in Horizon: Zero Dawn (that, by the way, is still there and obnoxiously visible), then try and come up with nonsense excuses to cover apathy/laziness. To be fair though, I still remember Blizzard Entertainment telling people that the reason they wouldn't bring the cancelled game Starcraft Ghost to PC was that a console controller had more buttons than a keyboard and mouse (lol?). So in that regard, at least their "excuse" is
Ultimately, you're never going to get a game perfect, but even so polish does matter. Those spelling and grammatical mistakes in subtitles? Those matter. Misaligned textures? Those matter. That bit of dialogue where it cuts out, cutting off the last second of a character's dialogue? It matters. Just because something isn't "game breaking", does not mean it's not important. A working game shows competence as a developer. A polished game shows professionalism. It's why you wouldn't send a letter to a boss, college professor, job interview without exercising the necessary diligence. You want to be taken seriously.
As a dev does one really want to be that "I can't be bothered" guy?
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/elizlestrad/really1_zpsdtaol0fl.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/elizlestrad/really2_zpscwvt1tek.jpg
Ultimately, you're never going to get a game perfect, but even so polish does matter. Those spelling and grammatical mistakes in subtitles? Those matter. Misaligned textures? Those matter. That bit of dialogue where it cuts out, cutting off the last second of a character's dialogue? It matters. Just because something isn't "game breaking", does not mean it's not important. A working game shows competence as a developer. A polished game shows professionalism. It's why you wouldn't send a letter to a boss, college professor, job interview without exercising the necessary diligence. You want to be taken seriously.
As a dev does one really want to be that "I can't be bothered" guy?
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/elizlestrad/really1_zpsdtaol0fl.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/elizlestrad/really2_zpscwvt1tek.jpg
My apologies for the lateness of my reply and the curtness of my original response.
My last post was written at approximately 2am (I live in Australia) and therefore I wasn't in an appropriate cognitive state to respond. It's also 2am right now and I promise I will respond to your message tomorrow (well, later today I guess) with the level of detail a post like yours deserves!
Please forgive me!
I can see where the devs are coming from in terms of not being able to just do a simple rescale for the Giga. Just from looking it, the Giga seems to share the same skeleton as large carnivores like Ceratosaurus, Metriacanthasaurus, Carnotaurus. All of these carnivores are around the same size, their feet and how they position their toes are distinct compared to T.rex, I-Rex, and Spino, and they all have short little tiny arms. Doing a simple rescale for the giga might mean that it would mess with all those other dinos because they'd all reference the same skeleton. Essentially, there would be no easy fix for this. In order to make this work, the safest bet is to pretty much remake the Giga via resizing its geometry and giving it its own unique skeleton (atleast until other dinos are created that could potentially make use of it).
As for the Spino... it seems like it has its own skeleton since there really isn't anything else in the game like it - nothing else has long lanky arms or a sail like the spino. I don't really know how this would be problematic other than making certain animations not align properly - something that is already a problem with maaany other dinos. The only other thing that would make sense is that its not necessarily Frontier being lazy and not wanting to make these changes, but that its Universal forcing them to make these design choices because they want their overly-spoiled special star 'Rexy' to be the biggest and baddest thing ever just because its Rexy. Which imo, is an incredibly stupid thing to do on Universal's part. I know I can't be the only one who's just a liiiiittle tired of the Rex always being in the spotlight lol.
As for the Spino... it seems like it has its own skeleton since there really isn't anything else in the game like it - nothing else has long lanky arms or a sail like the spino. I don't really know how this would be problematic other than making certain animations not align properly - something that is already a problem with maaany other dinos. The only other thing that would make sense is that its not necessarily Frontier being lazy and not wanting to make these changes, but that its Universal forcing them to make these design choices because they want their overly-spoiled special star 'Rexy' to be the biggest and baddest thing ever just because its Rexy. Which imo, is an incredibly stupid thing to do on Universal's part. I know I can't be the only one who's just a liiiiittle tired of the Rex always being in the spotlight lol.
Because Trevorrow simply doesn't care about the canon and butchers it to fit his "agenda".
In the first place
Seriously, why was most notably the giga made tiny in the first place. And if it was done for lack of time, why didn't they make it changable. Making one model larger may cause some rigging issues, but only that one creature. If it doesn't work initiall, don't add it to the update and keep working on it. They have the resources and funds.
And when it' come to sticking by lore. What a fat load of . The t-rex in even Jurassic World, is smaller than a not fully grown indominus rex. Which is smaller than the spinosaurus, in every piece of Jurassic material that the spinosaurus has featured in, the spinosaurus is bigger. I mean look at JPOG. The cacharadontosaurus was also slightly longer, and the acrocanthosaurus slightly shorter, in comparison to the t-rex.
So lore wise it doesn't make sense, scientifically it doesnt make sense, from a game making point of view its fixable or should not has no reason to have been made like that in the first place. So I call .
The real reason, the t-rex. The t-rex is a fat nostalgia, money grabosaurus that I love ngl. But was smaller than many, many theropods. The largest bring larger than it in JP3. And even if it was smaller............ So? Would that deter people from the game. Would people be annoted that a pair of dinosaurs that were noticeably larger than the t-rex... are bigger in game. No... because t-rex can still wreck their faces. T-rex could just have higher stats, if u think about it in real life it did too. It's bite did more damage, it was heavier, so more of a tank, it was faster and more muscly, even smarter. That's the reason t-rex is the king of the dinosaurs. So Universal can stop jacking off all about it. Because it's already a badass. And making it bigger just take away any realism from the game and just makes it feel like an apology for the spino and red fight, which was a fair fight. It also ruins the spinosaurus, which feels like a weak idiot compared to the rex. And ur just taking the mick with the giga. The size of a ceratosaurus. Ceratosaurus wasn't even that big in the movie.
So basically, they should just make them bigger, no reason not to, no reason they can't. And Universal can't the t-rex fever dream, and loosen the leash a bit.
And also.. let them add other dinosaurs with quill like feathers like the ones on the indos.
Oo wait no feathers... despite the indos and JP3 raptors (wich are the best) having them... no feathers.
Seriously, why was most notably the giga made tiny in the first place. And if it was done for lack of time, why didn't they make it changable. Making one model larger may cause some rigging issues, but only that one creature. If it doesn't work initiall, don't add it to the update and keep working on it. They have the resources and funds.
And when it' come to sticking by lore. What a fat load of . The t-rex in even Jurassic World, is smaller than a not fully grown indominus rex. Which is smaller than the spinosaurus, in every piece of Jurassic material that the spinosaurus has featured in, the spinosaurus is bigger. I mean look at JPOG. The cacharadontosaurus was also slightly longer, and the acrocanthosaurus slightly shorter, in comparison to the t-rex.
So lore wise it doesn't make sense, scientifically it doesnt make sense, from a game making point of view its fixable or should not has no reason to have been made like that in the first place. So I call .
The real reason, the t-rex. The t-rex is a fat nostalgia, money grabosaurus that I love ngl. But was smaller than many, many theropods. The largest bring larger than it in JP3. And even if it was smaller............ So? Would that deter people from the game. Would people be annoted that a pair of dinosaurs that were noticeably larger than the t-rex... are bigger in game. No... because t-rex can still wreck their faces. T-rex could just have higher stats, if u think about it in real life it did too. It's bite did more damage, it was heavier, so more of a tank, it was faster and more muscly, even smarter. That's the reason t-rex is the king of the dinosaurs. So Universal can stop jacking off all about it. Because it's already a badass. And making it bigger just take away any realism from the game and just makes it feel like an apology for the spino and red fight, which was a fair fight. It also ruins the spinosaurus, which feels like a weak idiot compared to the rex. And ur just taking the mick with the giga. The size of a ceratosaurus. Ceratosaurus wasn't even that big in the movie.
So basically, they should just make them bigger, no reason not to, no reason they can't. And Universal can't the t-rex fever dream, and loosen the leash a bit.
And also.. let them add other dinosaurs with quill like feathers like the ones on the indos.
Oo wait no feathers... despite the indos and JP3 raptors (wich are the best) having them... no feathers.
Question to the players and the devs:
Why not rename the Giga, change some textures (to make him look like another similar Dinosaur) and bring a "proper" Giga later on as DLC. (Will still gladly pay for it)
What do you think?
Why not rename the Giga, change some textures (to make him look like another similar Dinosaur) and bring a "proper" Giga later on as DLC. (Will still gladly pay for it)
What do you think?
Sounds good to me, but hardly a priority at this point.
Is a good idea. It could be Eocarcharia or Neovenator. Or maybe Mapusaurus.