Discovery & Full System Spectrum Scanner (FSS) - Should be Optional Modules! (Being an explorer should be a choice, a pathway to choose!)

Frontier,

I've engaged in, and read, discussions about exploration recently - some related to the FSS. These discussions have persuaded me that the FSS should not be integrated into all ships as standard.

I'm currently engaged in exploration in a specially fitted Exploration ship. What I find ridiculous is that there now appears to be only one module that is optional for exploration - the Detailed Surface Scanner.

Effectively, what has been done is to transform every ship into an exploration vessel, with the exception to the Surface Scanner. I really can't see the point in leaving the Surface Scanner optional in light of the fact that every other scanner has been integrated.

To be perfectly frank, this change, now that I've come to realise how significant a change it is, is absolutely pathetic. I expect exploration to be an optional career - players needing to customise their ships to engage in exploration (much like mining, bounty hunting, etc.). However, Frontier seem to have taken the position that exploration modules should be available to everyone.

I request that Frontier once more make the Discovery Scanner into an optional module - or, at the very least, implement a basic discovery scanner fitted as normal in all ships that provides very basic information, and provide an Advanced Discovery Scanner that provides explorers more information.

Also, the FSS should be an optional module which requires fitting into ships. It's crazy that exploration once needed a couple of modules fitted, and now it has only one available - and loads of scanners have been integrated into every ship.

Frontier, this needs to be changed as exploration is a path people choose, like miners, bounty hunters, traders, etc. Yet, you've stripped away all the options, and given the tools for free to everyone!
 
I'm sorry that I can only 'Like' this post once.

When the exploration update was announced I was hoping for more scanners, more outfitting options and things in space to interact with.

Instead we got simplification and passive objects for taking pictures in front of. It was a complete disappointment.
 
Doing this would strip away the small ship options we now have (thanks to built in FSS and the extra slots).
It would do no such thing.

Before these changes it was possible to equip smallish ships with the available exploration modules. It'd still be possible by bringing back a Basic Discovery Scanner, as well as an Advanced Discovery scanner. Same thing with Planetary Scanner, and I could possibly see a basic version of the FSS.

The fact is that ships should not be able to do absolutely all things at the same time. Most players have a ship dedicated to a specific task - Bounty Hunter, Trader, Pirate, Miner. Yet, we have a situation where the explorer has no tools (only one module), and every other ship, and career path, is able to utilise all the exploration tools. This is so wrong!

Either completely remove these in-built scanners, making them all optional modules as in the past (the preferred option). Or, have basic modules fitted - a basic FSS (for example, a basic version might not provide planetary data on resources, biological data, etc.) and Discovery Scanner that only provide bare minimum information - and provide advanced modules necessary for greater exploration (more in depth).
 
Small ships were viable for exploration before 3.3.
Yes but few chose them. To be fair they still don't, but some of us appreciate their new added utility.
Before these changes it was possible to equip smallish ships with the available exploration modules.
You probably want to take more than discovery scanners, and small ships are now much more viable. E.g. my Dolphin is much better than it used to be - and I only use it for exploration, not everything (wouldn't dream of doing combat in it!).
 
Yes but few chose them. To be fair they still don't, but some of us appreciate their new added utility.

You probably want to take more than discovery scanners, and small ships are now much more viable. E.g. my Dolphin is much better than it used to be - and I only use it for exploration, not everything (wouldn't dream of doing combat in it!).
If it had been up to me, the ADS would have been replaced with a 'science scanner' with submodule slots for different tasks. Larger size science scanners would have more slots allowing bigger ships to do more thinks, whilst retaining flexibility for smaller ship loadouts. I don't see why a Sidey should be able to do everything a 'Conda can.
 
Yes but few chose them. To be fair they still don't, but some of us appreciate their new added utility.

You probably want to take more than discovery scanners, and small ships are now much more viable. E.g. my Dolphin is much better than it used to be - and I only use it for exploration, not everything (wouldn't dream of doing combat in it!).
Thanks for the input. However, if Frontier started to integrate other optional modules for different career paths, I'm sure many wouldn't be happy. How about fitting the Wake Scanner (Normally Bounty Hunting) as standard, or the Manifest Scanner (Pirate) - perhaps the Kill Warrant Scanner (Bounty Hunting) or the Pulse Waver Scanner (mining). They're all off limits, but let's just integrate all the scanners for exploration...
 
I don't see why a Sidey should be able to do everything a 'Conda can.
I suppose there are pros and cons to however you do it. Personally I kind of think it should (I'm not a fan of ship 'tiers' - where do you go once you have an Anaconda? What if you don't like big ships?).

As far as exploration is concerned I think it's a shame that the ship stats for something like DW2 look something like this:

Anaconda 40%
Krait Phantom 20%
AspX 20%
DBX 8%
Beluga 5%
Everything else 7%

Why can't they all be good options?
 
Thanks for the input. However, if Frontier started to integrate other optional modules for different career paths, I'm sure many wouldn't be happy. How about fitting the Wake Scanner (Normally Bounty Hunting) as standard, or the Manifest Scanner (Pirate) - perhaps the Kill Warrant Scanner (Bounty Hunting) or the Pulse Waver Scanner (mining). They're all off limits, but let's just integrate all the scanners for exploration...
I'd be happy with that - I want gameplay, not messing around in outfitting. Actually I'd imagine the majority of players would be happy if they integrated all of that wouldn't they - who doesn't like free slots?
 
I suppose there are pros and cons to however you do it. Personally I kind of think it should (I'm not a fan of ship 'tiers' - where do you go once you have an Anaconda? What if you don't like big ships?).

As far as exploration is concerned I think it's a shame that the ship stats for something like DW2 look something like this:

Anaconda 40%
Krait Phantom 20%
AspX 20%
DBX 8%
Beluga 5%
Everything else 7%

Why can't they all be good options?
They are all 'good options' if you care about more than just jump range. DW2 is a specific 'travel a long way in a limited time frame' trip, so jump range is more relevant than it typically is, which skews the distribution somewhat. Plus the 'Conda is 'broken' by it's stupidly low hull mass.

FDev could (and I argue should) have created a small exploration ship with good jump range but limited internal slots. Give that (and the AspX and DBX) overly large 'science scanner' modules and it would be a big step towards making exploration outfitting a meaningful decision - rather than just fitting the lightest gear into the ships with the longest jump range.
 
While I don't disagree in principal (and have contributed to many threads calling for the reintroduction of at least an optional ADS to allow for different ways of exploring), the thing about the FSS is that FD don't see it purely as an exploration tool. Yes, it's been introduced as such, but to FD it's a 'hands on' way to find all sorts of things, from POI's on planets, to identifying USS and finding mission targets, not simply a way to scan planets.

Whether it's the best way to do some of those things is debatable, but that (IMO of course) is why they have integrated it into every ship. There was no need to do so if it were simply a replacement for the old discovery scanners, they could simply have replaced them where they were installed.

Highly unlikely I think that it will be changed back to an optional module. Whether that in itself is good or bad is debatable, but more tools and more ways of exploration would undoubtedly be a good thing for the game.
 
While I don't disagree in principal (and have contributed to many threads calling for the reintroduction of at least an optional ADS to allow for different ways of exploring), the thing about the FSS is that FD don't see it purely as an exploration tool. Yes, it's been introduced as such, but to FD it's a 'hands on' way to find all sorts of things, from POI's on planets, to identifying USS and finding mission targets, not simply a way to scan planets.

Whether it's the best way to do some of those things is debatable, but that (IMO of course) is why they have integrated it into every ship. There was no need to do so if it were simply a replacement for the old discovery scanners, they could simply have replaced them where they were installed.

Highly unlikely I think that it will be changed back to an optional module. Whether that in itself is good or bad is debatable, but more tools and more ways of exploration would undoubtedly be a good thing for the game.
Yeah, I can understand your point of view.

Frontier were swift to undo some of the changes to the Kill Warrant Scanner when they were doing the so called 'Beyond' rollout. Thus, it's entirely plausible that they could revise or reverse some of the changes for exploration. I really do believe there needs to be more modules related to exploration, and that all of the scanners currently fitted could be altered to provide more basic information, and allow more advanced scanners that permit greater detail to be discovered - biological information, planetary mineral content, gas giant ring type - also reserve levels - that type of thing. While it may be necessary to provide players with some system information, it certainly is not necessary to provide a non-exploration vessel all of this supplementary information.

Additionally, it used to be necessary for a Commander to have to scan the Nav Beacon to reveal some systems fully. However, I do believe (I could be wrong) that with the FSS (now integrated and fitted as standard in all ships) a player doesn't need to bother with the Nav Beacon at all.

Players without more advanced exploration tools, nor access to the FSS, should need to scan the Nav Beacon, and, if the system is uninhabited, they should have to fly up close and manually scan each planet to find out more details. These are merely suggestions on how exploration could work.

Still, in view of the fact Frontier have a tendency to dumb down this game for the console player, and those who really can't be bothered (referring to everything as a grind), I also doubt they'll make the improvements necessary to exploration.

Sadly, it appears that all other pathways have dedicated modules and tools, but exploration and explorers have been sidelined - such a shame.
 
If it had been up to me, the ADS would have been replaced with a 'science scanner' with submodule slots for different tasks. Larger size science scanners would have more slots allowing bigger ships to do more thinks, whilst retaining flexibility for smaller ship loadouts. I don't see why a Sidey should be able to do everything a 'Conda can.
I can't agree more Drew, however I can't help feeling that a lot of the player base would immediately start complaining about have to make all these choices and why can't they have them all in one module. Sort of like the limpets at the moment, still it's a dream. I would also like a dedicated exploration SRV with sample drills, soil scoops and analysers...and most importantly, no guns. Ok I might want to drill and insert an explosive charge in a rock to break it up and look for fossils or trace water for instance, but that's not a gun right?

Personally I would like the science side so much deeper that you would need to either take a medium/large ship if you wanted to do it all, or specialise in a small ship.

I think the scientific research side of the game needs a big shakeup. For instance if you want to be a top combat pilot you need to engineer and equip a ship specially for that, it's going to be heavily armed and armoured and not going to be able to jump far, it's a major undertaking to equip a ship and train to become a top combat pilot. To be a top scientific researcher in the game should require similar sort of dedication and equipment requirements, and maybe some of the equipment is simply not available unless you can demonstrate to the galactic research council you are a serious explorer/researcher.

It's a dream, the majority of the player base simply wouldn't go for it.
 
They are now, but weren't until recently. But this is about slots which (mainly) isn't about range.
Prior to 3.3 you could explore with only 3 slots. 4 if you wanted to drive around on planets, going up to 5 if you wanted to visit high G worlds.

Since then FDev have given us more slots, but less to put in them.
 
I can't agree more Drew, however I can't help feeling that a lot of the player base would immediately start complaining about have to make all these choices and why can't they have them all in one module. Sort of like the limpets at the moment, still it's a dream. I would also like a dedicated exploration SRV with sample drills, soil scoops and analysers...and most importantly, no guns. Ok I might want to drill and insert an explosive charge in a rock to break it up and look for fossils or trace water for instance, but that's not a gun right?

Personally I would like the science side so much deeper that you would need to either take a medium/large ship if you wanted to do it all, or specialise in a small ship.

I think the scientific research side of the game needs a big shakeup. For instance if you want to be a top combat pilot you need to engineer and equip a ship specially for that, it's going to be heavily armed and armoured and not going to be able to jump far, it's a major undertaking to equip a ship and train to become a top combat pilot. To be a top scientific researcher in the game should require similar sort of dedication and equipment requirements, and maybe some of the equipment is simply not available unless you can demonstrate to the galactic research council you are a serious explorer/researcher.

It's a dream, the majority of the player base simply wouldn't go for it.
Since I started wasting a significant portion of my life playing ED it has become steadily more casual - evidently in an effort to become less niche. The mysteries went away, the amount of effort involved in achieving things was vastly reduced and gameplay became all about credits. The sandbox got filled with shiny toys and any concept of depth was abandoned in favor of spoonfeeding 'achievement'.

I'm currently exploring by parallax and proximity-detection in an effort to feel like I'm earning my rewards, rather than having everything handed to me on a plate.
 
@SpaceAce The problem with your suggestion is that the FSS and/or other basic discovery systems have utility and purpose outside of dedicated exploration.

In principle, I agree with your stance BUT FDev have made such a mess of the 3.3 exploration updates that really the best way to address your concern would essentially require a roll-back of the 3.3 exploration updates and a rewrite of the associated mechanics from scratch IMO.

You can on the most-part ignore the FSS if you are not exploring (though it still has utility) thus asking for it to be made an optional module because you do not like the mechanics or are not interested in exploring is a bit ridiculous IMO.
 
Prior to 3.3 you could explore with only 3 slots. 4 if you wanted to drive around on planets, going up to 5 if you wanted to visit high G worlds.

Since then FDev have given us more slots, but less to put in them.
You've always been able to explore with zero slots, it's just that people typically want as many as possible. There is no specific amount that enables exploration. I have no trouble filling up my Dolphins 9 slots.
 
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