Display Sequencer tip! Make shows at ease!

Yes! The display sequencer is tedious, yes there is no timeline, yes syncing is hard, BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE! You don't have to set a time for each individual firework! [woah]


Don't be scared!​

The sequencer can be quite intense but there's something brilliant you can do. Duplicate triggered groups! Yes you can set a few fireworks together in a group, set the timer for them, and then duplicate that whole group and play it again later in the show. By doing so you skip having to set a time for each firework and instead only do it by groups. This in turn allows you to create long shows simply by repeating sequences.

Example 1.
1-Create a fan of Flares, setting each one .2s from each other.
2- Duplicate group.(select "..." options on tab)
3- Set time for new group
4- Done! Make as many flare fans in your show as you want and you only had to make them once!

Don't forget to name each group to make it easier to find the "sequence" you want!

Hopefully this eases some minds about it.



Any other tips you found? Post them here!
 
Yes! The display sequencer is tedious, yes there is no timeline, yes syncing is hard, BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE! You don't have to set a time for each individual firework! [woah]


Don't be scared!​

The sequencer can be quite intense but there's something brilliant you can do. Duplicate triggered groups! Yes you can set a few fireworks together in a group, set the timer for them, and then duplicate that whole group and play it again later in the show. By doing so you skip having to set a time for each firework and instead only do it by groups. This in turn allows you to create long shows simply by repeating sequences.

Example 1.
1-Create a fan of Flares, setting each one .2s from each other.
2- Duplicate group.(select "..." options on tab)
3- Set time for new group
4- Done! Make as many flare fans in your show as you want and you only had to make them once!

Don't forget to name each group to make it easier to find the "sequence" you want!

Hopefully this eases some minds about it.



Any other tips you found? Post them here!
I've been doing this but it still takes ages if you want to repeat a pair of sequence 100 times in a row or something.

Is there a workaround to make a sequence repeat itself until a given time? I've thought about linking sequencers together to create a feedback loop but then I see no way of breaking that sequence when I want it to stop.
 
I know we can duplicate entire triggered groups, ive been using it for my tests.
Its still tedious as hell to make anything presentable. Also I dont really want to copy the same segments time and time again for 10 minute shows. I want x group of flares to have different colors to group y, duplicating them doesnt help. The system is not as good as you think.

The folder and duplicates system looks more like a patch for a deathwound of the ride trigger system than something well thought and made from zero for shows.

EDIT
I know you are trying to help Simtanic, but sorry, the only help here is Frontier fixing the whole thing. If we start forcing small workarounds to a bad system, the system will finally stay as it is.
 
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Vampiro

Volunteer Moderator
I know we can duplicate entire triggered groups, ive been using it for my tests.
Its still tedious as hell to make anything presentable. Also I dont really want to copy the same segments time and time again for 10 minute shows. I want x group of flares to have different colors to group y, duplicating them doesnt help. The system is not as good as you think.

The folder and duplicates system looks more like a patch for a deathwound of the ride trigger system than something well thought and made from zero for shows.

EDIT
I know you are trying to help Simtanic, but sorry, the only help here is Frontier fixing the whole thing. If we start forcing small workarounds to a bad system, the system will finally stay as it is.
I want to start of by saying that im not trying to say you don't have valid points, not do i want to change your mind. I just want to try and understand why you think the system is worse then the RCT3 system.

I agree the RCT3 system has a more graphical approach, but why is it more easy to time that way? As my first idea is that RCT3 had a horizontal timeline on which you could place items, but PC basically has a vertical timeline as you see all the starting times from top to bottom. Because it's all numbers instead of dragging i would assume you can even time things more precisely because its all abselute numbers.

Once again, im not trying to belittle your problem, i just try to get my finger on what is bothering you about it.
 

WingardiumLevicoaster

Volunteer Moderator
I found it quite easy to use to be honest. It seemed less daunting than the RCT3 one, though I am not into creating perfectly timed performances. I made a display that looked great to me pretty quickly though.
 

Bo Marit

Lead Community Manager
Frontier
I know we can duplicate entire triggered groups, ive been using it for my tests.
Its still tedious as hell to make anything presentable. Also I dont really want to copy the same segments time and time again for 10 minute shows. I want x group of flares to have different colors to group y, duplicating them doesnt help. The system is not as good as you think.

The folder and duplicates system looks more like a patch for a deathwound of the ride trigger system than something well thought and made from zero for shows.

EDIT
I know you are trying to help Simtanic, but sorry, the only help here is Frontier fixing the whole thing. If we start forcing small workarounds to a bad system, the system will finally stay as it is.
I played for the first time on the livestream yesterday and found it very intuitive to set up a show (albeit a terrible show, but probably with more time and a plan in my head I could create something cool). If you won't mind, please send me an email with what you're having problems with; I can have a look with the team and see how we can help you.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
Humans are visual people, a vast majority of us are visual learners. Stuff laid out visually to us is going to be far far easier. That is natural.

There is a very good reason why stuff of similar nature, that requires precise timing of things, use visual timelines. I am talking about music and video editing suits here. The thing they have in common with Planet Coasters sequencer is that they all require the precise timing of lots of things.

The sequence editor now is good for a few things, once you start getting lots and lots going on, it is going to get very very difficult for most people.

It is a shame, because Frontier got it spot on with RCT3, this is without a doubt a step back.

If humans did not respond better to visual timelines, then they would not be used in some of the words best creative softwares.

That aside, the fireworks and ideas behind this new update are awesome. Just needs a bit of tweaking.
 
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I agree the RCT3 system has a more graphical approach, but why is it more easy to time that way? As my first idea is that RCT3 had a horizontal timeline on which you could place items, but PC basically has a vertical timeline as you see all the starting times from top to bottom. Because it's all numbers instead of dragging i would assume you can even time things more precisely because its all abselute numbers.
Let me ask you this, Why do you think video editing software doesn't use a list of delay times that exponentially increases working time the longer the video gets?

The horizontal timeline approach works so well because it takes the guesswork out of having to know the exact time length of events. If you want to place a visual event at a certain point in a song you can scrub along the timeline until you get to the part you want. You can then place an item at that exact point. You can scrub backwards and fill in the gaps, move things around and tweak away knowing exactly where events are. Having a visual representation of the audio waveform really is a must for timing events.

At the moment each firework can't be retriggered until its current animation has finished. It doesn't tell you how long each animation lasts so you if you have set your timing too close together you get nothing as a result. A timeline based system would show the length of each animation so you can line them up one after another without them overlapping, resulting in no missed triggers.

This current system forces you to know the exact time length of each event and its exact delay time from the beginning of the sequence. These are all unknown values without having to manually time each event beforehand. This is where the timeline comes in so useful. These unknown values are displayed on the screen and our brains can then use this to time events without having to use audacity to get the exact time for each beat in a tune, then workout what the time would be as a delay from the start of the sequence.

This current system is clunky, awkward and not a single scrap of fun to use.
 
Adobe Premier is the way to go. A horizontal time graph with the ability to sync audio and video in one interface. (video being the fireworks and vfx) This current interface is very basic. Requires you to plan everything out on paper(best guess for timing) and hope it all comes out right. I think it is useable for smaller projects like coasters and flat rides requiring less input. For a full fireworks show, I'll pass for now till it's either fixed or made more like rct3. Why are we reinventing the wheel here Frontier? Other than that, great job and thank you for a wonderful game.
 
For a full fireworks show, I'll pass for now....
But who will sit there and watch a "full fireworks show"? Who is your audience? The peeps in game?

We're talking about fireworks within a coaster game. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt anyone looking at your park on youtube or workshop downloaded, will sit there for 5, 10 or 20 minutes watching a full fireworks show. The reason is, it's not a real fireworks show!!
 
But who will sit there and watch a "full fireworks show"? Who is your audience? The peeps in game?

We're talking about fireworks within a coaster game. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt anyone looking at your park on youtube or workshop downloaded, will sit there for 5, 10 or 20 minutes watching a full fireworks show. The reason is, it's not a real fireworks show!!
By that logic, then any creative endeavour conducted in this game is meaningless. That's like asking why someone whould spend 50 hours creating a full themed log flume dark ride when they could have just popped down the track and surrounded it with random scenery to get the same effect.
 
But who will sit there and watch a "full fireworks show"? Who is your audience? The peeps in game?

We're talking about fireworks within a coaster game. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt anyone looking at your park on youtube or workshop downloaded, will sit there for 5, 10 or 20 minutes watching a full fireworks show. The reason is, it's not a real fireworks show!!
well i guess we can skip any improvements from now on
 
I agree the RCT-3 mix master show concept was better then the display sequencer now. I give you a few things why:

First of all we had a much more professional looking firework launchers.
The ones that the DEVs now put into the game are looking like consumer fireworks that everyone can buy.

Second of all, i want to choose, which effect launches from which mortar and change the angle of the mortar also, not buy just preset effects and have to deal with it.

Third: Timetable! I miss the time table where you can really script your effects right on the timer the music have it's effects. I really miss the timetable where we can actually see which effect is set on which time, how long and when it burst on the right time in music!

And my 4th point: I did some experimental customized fireworks, I really love to have the advanced firework editor back from RCT-3 to make my own effects!

I am really dissapointed with the current display sequencer.

Regards, Wes.
 
In general, I like the display sequencer in PC because it allows activation of triggered items without needing a coaster or track ride to do it. And I find the display sequencer relatively easy to use. However, it has several significant problems (some of which are legit coding bugs, not just much-needed refinements) with the features it currently has, before getting into features we wish it had (such as a timeline as in a video editor).

My main gripes with the display sequencer's current features are as follows:

1. It doesn't work well when it's part of a building
Seriously, every collection of scenery items in PC should be made as a building (IOW, it should start with a small gridded part, even if everything else is non-gridded). This is because when you're in the building editor, you can multi-select things, which allows you to change colors of multiple parts at once, and similar time-saving things. This is hugely helpful when making fireworks displays with many launchers. However, if the display sequencer is part of a building, it causes the following problems:
* Cannot change the music played by the display sequencer. The only way you can change the music is if the display sequencer is a stand-alone scenery item.
* Cannot easily transition between editing the display sequencer and the fireworks. Closing the display sequencer's sequence editor also closes the building edtior. This means you have to select the building again, then select edit it, before you can change anything else on the sequencer itself or the fireworks that are part of the building.


2. Cannot Start Display From Within Display Camera

The display cameras are only useful for recording videos of the fireworks show. However, the display cameras are just like on-ride cameras in that you have no control of the game when viewing from the display cameras. This means you have to start the display first, then jump to the display camera. Which means that unless you build a delay of several seconds into the front end of the display, your video will either show you making the jump from regular game camera to display camera, or the 1st few seconds of your display will be cut off.

3. Cannot Copy Display Sequencers
This is a coding bug. The reason to copy a display sequencer is because the show is too big to fit in a single sequencer, and contains many complex display groups that you don't want to have to rebuild by hand. So to save the display groups that the 2nd sequencer will use, you copy the original. Problem is, the copy still thinks its the original when it comes to how often it can be triggered. When the original sequencer is triggered, the copy THINKS it's also been triggered even though it actually doesn't trigger. As a result, the copy cannot start until after the original has finished, which means not until after the last sparks of the last shot of the original sequencer have faded away. This creates a gap in the show instead of the smooth transition you wanted. There is no way around this except to make the 2nd sequencer from scratch, rebuilding all the display groups you want to re-use on the 2nd sequencer.

4. Cannot Dynamically Change Effect Durations
The only times you can change in the display sequencer are delays. The only way to change effect durations (for the objects where this is even possible) is by editing the individual triggered objects. This means that if you want an effect at a certain in-game location to have multiple durations, you need multiple copies of the triggerable object at that location, one copy for each different duration. This gets very tedious very quickly. It would be better if the display sequencer allowed you to set the object's duration dynamically each time the sequencer called that item.
 
By that logic, then any creative endeavour conducted in this game is meaningless. That's like asking why someone whould spend 50 hours creating a full themed log flume dark ride when they could have just popped down the track and surrounded it with random scenery to get the same effect.
Yes but full fireworks shows are a temporal medium so your efforts are at risk of going unnoticed due to the user needing to sit and stare in one direction for several minutes.

I suppose if you trigger your show as part of a coaster ride, where the coaster stops mid-ride for as long as the show goes for, that would be one cool way to get people to watch the show. Using block sections and timing the station departure interval could achieve a mid-ride stop for a specified amount of time. Look forward to it.
 
Let me ask you this, Why do you think video editing software doesn't use a list of delay times that exponentially increases working time the longer the video gets?

The horizontal timeline approach works so well because it takes the guesswork out of having to know the exact time length of events. If you want to place a visual event at a certain point in a song you can scrub along the timeline until you get to the part you want. You can then place an item at that exact point. You can scrub backwards and fill in the gaps, move things around and tweak away knowing exactly where events are. Having a visual representation of the audio waveform really is a must for timing events.

At the moment each firework can't be retriggered until its current animation has finished. It doesn't tell you how long each animation lasts so you if you have set your timing too close together you get nothing as a result. A timeline based system would show the length of each animation so you can line them up one after another without them overlapping, resulting in no missed triggers.

This current system forces you to know the exact time length of each event and its exact delay time from the beginning of the sequence. These are all unknown values without having to manually time each event beforehand. This is where the timeline comes in so useful. These unknown values are displayed on the screen and our brains can then use this to time events without having to use audacity to get the exact time for each beat in a tune, then workout what the time would be as a delay from the start of the sequence.

This current system is clunky, awkward and not a single scrap of fun to use.
The vertical versus horizontal, could it be that the vertical system was introduced not to conflict with RCT3 intellectual property rights, just a thought!

If using the vertical system I reckon the following should be done.


1) Have a family tree icon based vertical chart (the bottom are the first fireworks the top one being the last.
2) By each firework (icon) found in scenery alongside have a drop down for count in seconds and another one for changing colour right beside the seconds one

Simplicity is best and I for one would love to use a system like this where you start from the bottom and work up just by selecting firework icons from an array seeing the icon pic and then add delay in seconds, colours and even various sounds.

Hope you guys like this idea.
 
Yes but full fireworks shows are a temporal medium so your efforts are at risk of going unnoticed due to the user needing to sit and stare in one direction for several minutes.

I suppose if you trigger your show as part of a coaster ride, where the coaster stops mid-ride for as long as the show goes for, that would be one cool way to get people to watch the show. Using block sections and timing the station departure interval could achieve a mid-ride stop for a specified amount of time. Look forward to it.
I have no clue what point you're trying to get across here. People don't play the game for any one but themselves. By your logic playing games, or doing anything really, is pointless.
 
The vertical versus horizontal, could it be that the vertical system was introduced not to conflict with RCT3 intellectual property rights, just a thought!

If using the vertical system I reckon the following should be done.


1) Have a family tree icon based vertical chart (the bottom are the first fireworks the top one being the last.
2) By each firework (icon) found in scenery alongside have a drop down for count in seconds and another one for changing colour right beside the seconds one

Simplicity is best and I for one would love to use a system like this where you start from the bottom and work up just by selecting firework icons from an array seeing the icon pic and then add delay in seconds, colours and even various sounds.

Hope you guys like this idea.
No one owns the rights to a timeline.

A timeline has proven to be superior. Every piece of software designed for editing whatever over a period of time uses a horizontal timeline because it just works the best. Simplicity isn't always the best, dumb things down too much and it will lose its potential and people will lose interest.
 
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No one owns the rights to a timeline.

A timeline has proven to be superior. Every piece of software designed for editing whatever over a period of time uses a horizontal timeline because it just works the best. Simplicity isn't always the best, dumb things down too much and it will lose its potential and people will lose interest.
So maybe going forward the horizontal approach could be for PC, however there is enough in the game to consider without having to over complicate something which is tbh quite basic in operation as previous described in my last post.
 
So maybe going forward the horizontal approach could be for PC, however there is enough in the game to consider without having to over complicate something which is tbh quite basic in operation as previous described in my last post.
A timeline would be the opposite of over-complicating the sequencer.
 
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