DK2 and Elite gave me 'Upgraditis'

[Foxis]

I'm just going to wait for the new mobo and processor to arrive now and then test again with the core i7 4790.

For what it is worth, the following rig currently runs ED on the DK2 in 1920x1080 and high settings without any graphics-related stuttering (except in the Wyrd station):
i7 4790k, Asus z97 Deluxe, 1xGTX980, Windows 8.1

So, a processor and mb upgrade *should* get you smooth space trekking in DK2!

 

[saviornt]

In regards to DSR, it makes my system lag like crazy.

 

[Chris Dettmar]

In regards to DSR, it makes my system lag like crazy.

Yes, I found that I needed to turn down the quality to low, but I much prefer being able to read the text and I think overall it looks better.

 

[simphe]

I've now completed my upgrade from an i7-950 (3.06Ghz) to an i7-4790k (4Ghz) and.... there was no difference! This was with SLI deactivated in the NVidia control panel. I still got choppy frame rates when docked at any stations, or in the asteroid fields (high settings) although with the shadows off, this went away. I really like the shadows though, and Foxis' system is able to run it fine on the high settings with the same spec.
Afterburner was reporting no activity from the second card, but I tried removing it from the computer entirely to exactly replicate Foxis' setup, and, it was perfectly smooth, and 100% awesome!

I put the second card back in, and this time enabled SLI. What I found now is that the frame rate is NOT as high as with the single card, ie it went slightly choppy in stations, but not as badly as with the second card installed and SLI disabled. Also there's a slight extra latency which is what I'd expect without the SLI VR drivers perhaps (didn't notice it before but now I'm used to playing more with the rift it is noticeable).

I then tried enabling DSR and playing at 4 x the native rez, with 30% smoothing. I then selected it in game, and found that there was a strobe effect which is similar to when I tried it with 'direct to rift' mode. The frame rate seemed reasonably good with high, but it looked like there was loads of lag. Having said that, it was really hard to tell because of the strobe effect.

I don't know whether my second card might be duff, so I'm going to swap them round after I've finished work later, but I doubt it would be... I think there might be some kind of SLI setting which is required for the rift, and as Catpain Kirk said, he has an INCREASED frame rate but with the extra latency (although he did say that modern GPUs won't get an increase).

I'm happy to play now with a single 980 card, and the frame rate couldn't be better (didn't try the Wyrd system yet though). I build this setup to play elite, so I won't install the second card until the SLI VR drivers are confirmed to be working. So the main points from this testing for using the Oculus Rift with ED are:

1. Get the best SINGLE GPU you can for now.
2. Don't bother upgrading your CPU and mobo if you've got an older i7 such as the 950 - just overclock it if you can and invest in the GPU.
3. If you've got an SLI setup, it may perform better for you without the second card physically installed, even if SLI is disabled on the control panel.
4. Don't use the tutorials as a benchmark because they don't reflect true in game performance.
5. Don't forget that you'll probably need to upgrade anyway regardless when the CV1 rift arrives, so keep your cash if you want to wait.

I'm happy to keep playing about with the SLI and DSR if anyone has any suggestions for settings to try? Otherwise I'm going to try again one the SLI VR drivers arrive.

Edit - I was using DSR factor 4 (not factor 2.25), and at a resolution of 3840 x 2160... Maybe this is why it was so rubbish with DSR. I'll try again with it later at 2.25 with SLI and see what happens....

 

[Elison Muerte]

I did a fresh install of Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, on raided SSD's, a 4960x OC'd to 4.4ghz, 32gbs of 2133mhz DDR3, a pair of Titan Black's in SLI and I get smooth performance using medium gfx settings at 1920x1080, anything more and it's a juddery mess. Hopefully optimization will continue.

 

[Shigawire]

I also have a 2x980 SLI system.

The reason why SLI is not going to work optimally for Elite: Dangerous yet, is very simple.
SLI setting: AFR1 or AFR2 (Alternate Frame Rendering) are the only current options.. setting AFR on a SLI setup causes latency in your VR setup.
At least 1 frame of latency.. you can find out how much 1 frame of latency is using the frames per second.
When you have 75fps, your 1 frame latency is being added for each single frame rendered.. and this affects your head movement.
You will still have a high 75 FPS, but your head movement will not be synced to reality.
1000 ms : 75fps = 13.33 ms per frame.. that is the latency you are constantly going to be under.
This can make you motion sick or make you feel like "something is off" without being able to pinpoint what.
I never get motion sick thankfully.. don't know why.

I've turned off SLI pending Nvidia's "VR DIRECT" driver suite. That's what I'm waiting for.
The VR DIRECT driver suite will add "VR SLI" which is a form of "Split Frame Rendering" (SFR, not AFR)
That way, each camera (eye) view is being rendered on a different GPU, with the Oculus lens distortion added.

 

[simphe]

I did a fresh install of Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, on raided SSD's, a 4960x OC'd to 4.4ghz, 32gbs of 2133mhz DDR3, a pair of Titan Black's in SLI and I get smooth performance using medium gfx settings at 1920x1080, anything more and it's a juddery mess. Hopefully optimization will continue.

That's pretty much how it was for me until I physically removed one of the cards. It now gets >75 fps smooth with everything maxed out. Also, the SLI latency issue (once you notice it) does make a difference. Without the latency it does feel a lot more immersive I think. It's just a tiny difference but it's these kinds of things which really fool our senses.

If you only play elite, it might be worth removing one of the titans to check the difference if you haven't already. I really hope something comes out about these mystical VR SLI drivers soon. You'd think they'd want to get them out by Christmas to potentially increase card sales for VR users, but then again many people probably think they're out already from looking at NVidia's promo stuff.

Either way I'm hopeful too that the SLI will become more optimised with ED.

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Thanks Shigawire, that really does help explain things. VR Direct is the one to look out for...

 

[thafred]

I'm happy to play now with a single 980 card, and the frame rate couldn't be better (didn't try the Wyrd system yet though). I build this setup to play elite, so I won't install the second card until the SLI VR drivers are confirmed to be working. So the main points from this testing for using the Oculus Rift with ED are:

1. Get the best SINGLE GPU you can for now.
2. Don't bother upgrading your CPU and mobo if you've got an older i7 such as the 950 - just overclock it if you can and invest in the GPU.
3. If you've got an SLI setup, it may perform better for you without the second card physically installed, even if SLI is disabled on the control panel.
4. Don't use the tutorials as a benchmark because they don't reflect true in game performance.
5. Don't forget that you'll probably need to upgrade anyway regardless when the CV1 rift arrives, so keep your cash if you want to wait.

I'm happy to keep playing about with the SLI and DSR if anyone has any suggestions for settings to try? Otherwise I'm going to try again one the SLI VR drivers arrive.

Edit - I was using DSR factor 4 (not factor 2.25), and at a resolution of 3840 x 2160... Maybe this is why it was so rubbish with DSR. I'll try again with it later at 2.25 with SLI and see what happens....

Excellent Points made above! thank you for posting your findings.
Good to hear that you got your new rig running fine but sad about the results! (was kinda hoping that it resolved everything for you, also checked for CPU/Mobo upgrade prices today...so thanks for your post!...)
Seems pretty strange that the performance is lower with two cards than with one installed, even thou one was disabled. oh well, beta Elite and beta Oculus Runtime..at least we can agree that things will almost surely improve in the future

I played yesterday and seem to get really good performance out of my OC´d 970 on high settings in most systems. definitely more playable than stock! With shadows on high it sometimes judders very lightly in Stations but nothing too bad, wyrd station is only playable at Low without shadows thou..(hanger doesn´t work smooth in any setting) so I´m puzzled about what to do next.
My plan was to go for 970 SLI as soon as VR drivers are available, problem is that my old Mobo only supports PCI-E 2.0 x16 and X4 when I want to give both cards room to breath. Also the Zotac 970 with full overclock needs a bit higher settings on the fan so the system gets uncomfortably loud for me while playing (It´s not terribly loud like my 470 was but I´m used to a completely silent system. an aftermarket cooler would help but I´d loose SLI capability again due to height)
My 970 OCd is still a bit under the raw power of a stock 980..so I´m contemplating to sell the 970 and get a 980. Oc a bit and be done. Or just Play the game as it is now trust in Frontier to polish the engine and upgrade everything when CV1 and 20nm Nvidia Cards get available.... What would you guys do?

On the topic of Text readability in DK2.. I found the most important thing in DK2 is to never look steady at a Text but to always have your head moving slightly (I´m usualy tilting my head a few degrees).. looks pretty stupid from the outside (with DK2 on who cares but it´s like free antialising so I can read everything in Elite without getting closer wich is impossible for HUD text anyway. I found upping DSR and lowering OR quality gains me nothing as both seem to cancel each other out. Hope this helps.

 

[thafred]

Simon,

just had a talk with a co-worker and described him your issues with SLI. he made a point I never thought about: what about your Power Supply? Two 980´s are quite a load for an old PS .. sounds logical to me that your cards are throttling because they don´t get enough juice. Can you check the wattage and make of your PS?

Everybody talks about how efficient these cards are and it´s true for the power they have. but when my old Fermi 470 released in 2010 we were cursing the high power usage and heat it put out (thermi anyone?) but in reality my new 970 almost needs he same juice (50W lower) that my old 470 did under full use.

2 980 and i7 should suck up about 500W, with HDD and peripherals maybe you need 650W PS with headroom. In four years your old powersupply might loose quite some power off its as new specs (even more so if it´s some cheapskate PS that didnt bring the power when new anyway), so keep that in mind!

 

[simphe]

No problem Fred always glad to share my findings! Don't be too saddened by the SLI results - I agree that it'll almost certainly be improved. It's easy to forget that all of this stuff is still experimental after all.
Regarding your GPU upgrade, I doubt that a 970 to a 980 would really make that much of a difference (although I've no evidence to back it up) but they're not that far apart in terms of spec. I'd be more inclined to wait and see what happens with the SLI drivers, and potentially get a second 970 but only if it all pans out ok and the VR Direct drivers appear and work well. If you've got good enough performance now though, why not save your money and wait for CV1? Don't worry too much about the Wyrd system - it sounds like some kind of model issue which will hopefully be resolved, and I doubt any GPU upgrade will sort it out for now.
Regarding noise from the GPUs, I've been leaving the side off my PC to help keep the temp down, and my PC sounds like it's about to lift off... My PC sits in my home office, and I normally actually sit in my 'man cave/mini cinema' room some 30 feet away using a combination of usb extensions, and Bluetooth controllers (and a 50 foot HDMI cable) so I can't hear the PC noise anyway. For the rift that isn't really a good idea due the latency though, so I sit next to the PC and use Shure SE535 in ear headphones which totally block out everything, and they make ED sound totally amazing. I did manage one to build an almost totally silent PC, but it weighed a ton due to the amount of sound insulation in there, and it overheated really easily. It's always a trade off sadly, unless you use water cooling??

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Simon,

just had a talk with a co-worker and described him your issues with SLI. he made a point I never thought about: what about your Power Supply? Two 980´s are quite a load for an old PS .. sounds logical to me that your cards are throttling because they don´t get enough juice. Can you check the wattage and make of your PS?

Everybody talks about how efficient these cards are and it´s true for the power they have. but when my old Fermi 470 released in 2010 we were cursing the high power usage and heat it put out (thermi anyone?) but in reality my new 970 almost needs he same juice (50W lower) that my old 470 did under full use.

2 980 and i7 should suck up about 500W, with HDD and peripherals maybe you need 650W PS with headroom. In four years your old powersupply might loose quite some power off its as new specs (even more so if it´s some cheapskate PS that didnt bring the power when new anyway), so keep that in mind!

That's a good point - well worth checking. I'll see if I can figure out how to check the voltages etc. I do have a 1000w OCZ modular power supply (about 4 years old) which I would have thought should be ok, but you never know.... I've got quite a lot of USB extensions chained together which might drain power from it.

Also, it seems that when SLI is off, the extra card is kind of like a dead weight, and really drags the frame rate down. With SLI on, it's not as good as a single physical card, but looks really good on the monitor. That, coupled with a good 3d mark graphics score with the SLI on (btw it went up to 30104 from 25000ish after the CPU/mobo upgrade), it sounds like it could be an Elite optimisation issue?

 

[thafred]

Forget the ps Idea then. The Ocz should be more than adequate!

Wow 5000points gained is a sweet upgrade! What version of 3dmark are you running? If that's for fire strike demo those numbers are amazing!

Will keep my 970 for now. Better to wait until gamma before spending any more money.

I'm not the one who is disturbed by noise because I play with headphones anyway (on a decent DAC) but my better half is sitting about 1m away from the machine when watching Telly so I always wait for her to go to sleep before playing, tired of the VR skigoggle jokes anyway

 

[simphe]

Yes, it seems like a pretty good boost - more than I was expecting! Maybe the PCI-x 3.0 does help? Also, it would be running in 16x mode for both cards in that case. I'd always heard it didn't make that much of a difference though. I'm just using the bog standard 3d mark 11 demo. I haven't tried any other bench marking tools though.
Maybe your fan noise will help your better half off to the land of nod? It works for me, but strangely only if I'm working... My single remaining installed GPU seems to make a slightly worrying high pitched buzzing noise when it's under load. I've heard it's normal though, and if it explodes, I'll just RMA it I guess

 

[Baton]

On the topic of Text readability in DK2.. I found the most important thing in DK2 is to never look steady at a Text but to always have your head moving slightly (I´m usualy tilting my head a few degrees)..

Hi, I've noticed the same thing

As for DSR, for me it makes big difference in reading the text. Lets say "MASS LOCKED" bit, without DSR is pretty much unreadable, with 1.78 DSR it is still bad, but I can read it. Problem is, with GTXC 970 framerates are OK in space, but I have judder in stations. Graphic setup to low, for me it does not make much difference in terms of visuals, still miles from how crisp it looks on flat screen. Tried DSR smoothness and looks like default 33% works for me best.
Also with DSR all lines like orbits and edges in stations look much better, I do not have this constant movement on them (I'm pretty sure there is a technical term for this)

So I'm also contemplating getting 980, not that I'm happy to go trough swapping the card so soon again, but I will definitely wait for ED relese in hope they will optimize it more.

 

[simphe]

I only tried DSR in SLI mode but I had the flickering issue like others here. I can read the text ok without it on the dk2, so I'm happy to leave things the way they are for now. I probably won't try SLI again until the release version because the frame rates are just where I want them with a single 980. I'd rather leave it in standard mode and get the nice shadows and lighting that the high mode brings instead of the clearer text, but that's just a preference thing. I don't think it could manage DSR and high settings without too much of a sacrifice in frame rates on a single 980 (although I haven't actually tried it)... Might give it a go later the more I think about it.

I've actually started playing the game now, and I find that once I'm into it I don't notice things like text legibility anymore because I'm thinking more about what I'm going to do next etc.

Regarding upgrading from a 970 to a 980 it seems like a lot of money to spend for a 10% frame rate increase (I've heard) but if that gets you over the 75fps on the settings you want then it might be worth it. You're right though to wait until the release - optimisations are possible but as previously said, be prepared to shell out again for the CV1!

 

[simphe]

I've tried again installing a second 980 but SLI with switched off. The last time I did that, the frame rates in solo or open mode were really poor, and removing the second card sorted it out.
Fred you suggested about power and I think you were into something there because I changed the windows power plan settings to a performance option (from economy) and it now doesn't impact the frame rates.

Also, I tried again with DSR but with various settings. The higher the resolution you pick, the more flicker you get on the rift in SLI. With profile 2.25 the frame rate was very smooth with high settings, but there was way too much lag, as others have found. My preference is to hold out for the CV1 before upping the resolution.

With SLI off, the DSR still works with one 980 for me, but with less lag, but choppier frame rates unless graphics is set to low, so with one 980 you still have to pick between pretty lighting and sharper text...

With two graphics cards installed though and SLI off, from the settings, the inactive card can still be used as a phys x processor which might help in some cases.

 

[Adam Lusardi]

I believe Phys x is not used in the game.

 

[SlackR]

This is quite disheartening... I will still go ahead and build a rig next week with two 980's in SLI, though I had hoped the to utilise DSR function from the off. Guess we need to wait for the next round of updates from everyone