DLC20 Discussion (maybe, but why not?)

As im the one who used that Word, no animal is rancid irl, i hope for every animal the best and my Hobby is literally going around and taking pictures of cool Bugs and other invertebrates, but this is a game and for the purpose of a zoo game a third elephant is not just unnessceccary, its entirely unneeded, a genuine waste of space and work effort and adds nothing the base game elephants didnt do allready. Im no stranger to hyping up oddball picks, but its because i have reasons to Promote the animal. Its unique, got a clear different niche, is common in zoos, would be nice to go along animal xy, etc.

Now to dismantle your points one by one:

- yes there are animals not kept in captivity and all of those are misses in my humble opinion. In a zoo game your basic requirement should be to be present in a zoo and if not atleast be unique to a point that you cant easily be replaced by another animal. An example of a decent one is the saiga, as really no other animal can do what the saiga does in being a cold climate central asian antelope with a very unique face. The elephant meanwhile is very much replaceable by the allready in game asian elephant.

- it is smaller, ill give you that, but the asian elephant allready is to small and the rest is Details that wont be observed if not side vy side

- the games conservation Ethos is thin at best, not present outside of its Initial Promotion at worst. Its a buzzword, nothing more and again i wish the best for the species, but saying that conservation Status ever matterd for what choices make it to the game just isnt true. If it was, where are the deep Cuts then? Why do highly endangerd animals mostly get added as clones? The only unique conservation deepcut was the pangolin all the way back in base game and the widely disliked nile lechwe (an animal i very much approve as it has an actual zoo presence). All the other highly endangerd animals tend to either be desireable regardless of their conservation Status like most of the conservation pack, common in zoos and rather well known. Im not saying thats Bad, but its just how it is. Conservation status is only used to make undesireable animals more desireable while animals that actually are great additions like a duck dont get devalued cause they are least concern. For Real zoos its great and to be applauded when they prioritise endangerd animals that would benefit from ex situ conservation over more popular ones but in the context of a game its literally just a fun or rather not so fun fact

- first, if you want a rainforest elephant habitat you can literally allready do that. Second, the traversable area alone will prevent you from doing that in game. So even if it was unique to them (which it isnt) it will still not be possible to actually make functional

- fair take on Borneo rep, eventhough id be personally fine myself to just use the asian elephant for that role

- we havent had a new elephant because we got the right ones in the base game and dont need no more. Why give us more if we allready have all we need?

- the people that want more Zebras and stuff are not me. I strongly disagree with them. If anyone wants another zebra, they should do themself a favour and use the mod. I thought a leopard is boring, but nessecary and i called the african leopard the worst addition to the game post base game and i stand by that.

Look, im glad you like the elephant, but please explain to me how we have a zoo game with over 200 animals, but not a duck? A pheasent? A pelican? I know calling Feathers is generic but like i can ask literally any person on the planet and they could most likly tell me what a duck is, have seen a duck, have seen them defenetly in a zoo as the vast majority of zoo has ducks, they are infact among the most common Single family of anything regarding zoo representation. So why the duck do we get literally not wanted animals by anyone, we literally have a big long list for that thanks to our favorite Goat, but not what the people actually want?

I can admit, people wanted that african leopard, i groaned, i thought its dumb, but they still wanted it. The Coyote was on that list and honestly compareable as its a Stunning conclusion next to the elephant. The himalayan brown bear should have been the European brown bear or non existant, but we all burried that Grudge and just forgot it, it was a bad descision in the base game, frontier is better then that now.

But theres literally not a single reason i can think of why anyone at frontier would look at this community, our Discussions, our lists, the game, zoos, literally anything and come to the conclusion that the Borneo dwarf elefant should not just be in the game but as part of what is most likly one of the last, if not the last dlc of the game.


Wait there is one. Limit testing how low they can Set the Bar and people will still buy it, defend it even. And this isnt the first time i came to that conclusion, i said the exact same about americas "interesting" conclusions, even those i liked, and what did we get?
They lowerd the Bar and took an animal no one knows, no one needs, no one wished for, from a group that was well documentedly considerd complete, something literally no one asked for.

Sure i might be reading to much into a silly little choice for a silly dlc for my silly favorite game, but i really really cant stand that thought. One bad pick on the roster whatever, but this? This feels like we are intentionally getting played, the americas pack lack of an update didnt help that feeling. I love the game, i like the community but i really dont like the direction this game, that frontier is going and thats why the elephant is so offensive to me.
Well, the Coyote had 35 votes on the meta wishlist. That is even more votes than some other animals that people had deemed more acceptable, and I have seen alot of people being happy about it on Reddit. This forum is sometimes an echo chamber, but we are not the only ones playing the game. In fact, we are just a fragment of the playerbase. So, can we really say “no one wanted it” ?
 
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No that's not what I said at all. In your post, which I decided only to remove, you called people "whining arachnophobes".

That is making light of the situation. Would you like someone to call you a "whining Gatopsarophobe"? There are rules on this forum about flaming other users, rules that after all this time you still don't seem to have understood. So to make it clear for you:

Someone talking about something you have a phobia of is fine.

Someone making fun of, or belittling you for having a phobia is not fine.


But whatever, this new pack is ok, no bird and no muntjac or gaur, but a third useless elephant and a tanookie... love the ratel and blackbuck
 
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I actually saw several comments from people who were happy with the elephant. We need to stop making so many assumptions based on forums and wishlists we are a very small minority of the player base. It was the same with the coyote: hated here but loved outside, while the flamingo was the opposite
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I’m ok-ish with the elephant. Sumatran rhino would be better though.

But it’s here it’s looking good and it’s a part of my favorite pack ever so…

I won’t dare to complain… much 😉
 
I actually saw several comments from people who were happy with the elephant. We need to stop making so many assumptions based on forums and wishlists we are a very small minority of the player base. It was the same with the coyote: hated here but loved outside, while the flamingo was the opposite
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I saw a lot of comments on Instagram saying "didn't we already have that elephant" soooo
 
Well, the Coyote had 35 votes on the meta wishlist. That is even more votes than some other animals that people had deemed more acceptable, and I have seen alot of people being happy about it on Reddit. This forum is sometimes an echo chamber, but we are not the only ones playing the game. In fact, we are just a fragment of the playerbase. So, can we really say “no one wanted it” ?
The forum is also very EU focused for some reason. So it skews the results.
 
Vocal minority vs vocal minority.

5 comments isn't a lot, i can literally open zoochat and see the same ammount of comments saying how much the elephant suck.

And afterall, my opinion on the elephant won't change because of a handful of dripping cats on youtube.
There are more than five I'm not going to make a compilation, and I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion just pointing out that we tend to overestimate opinions here and treat them as absolute. It was agreed here that the elephant was an unwanted animal, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
Has anybody noticed any of the animal signs in the trailer or screenshots? Usually we pick up on at least some of those in the background... I'm definitely not suggesting they aren't doing them this time around. Just interesting that they aren't really featured anywhere in the materials.

And, TBH, most of the new scenery doesn't really seem to be highlighted. I'm not sure whether to be excited about this or nervous. LOL
 
Has anybody noticed any of the animal signs in the trailer or screenshots? Usually we pick up on at least some of those in the background... I'm definitely not suggesting they aren't doing them this time around. Just interesting that they aren't really featured anywhere in the materials.

And, TBH, most of the new scenery doesn't really seem to be highlighted. I'm not sure whether to be excited about this or nervous. LOL
Yeah, +100 pieces look a lot (about half we used to get with scenery DLCs) but then they only mentioned lanterns, benches, light boxes and decorative panels. So no real building set (and nothing grided probably). And for the THIRD time in a row, with a festive vibe. I'm afraid we will once more have a lot of repetitive pieces like with the last DLC.
 
Yeah, +100 pieces look a lot (about half we used to get with scenery DLCs) but then they only mentioned lanterns, benches, light boxes and decorative panels. So no real building set (and nothing grided probably). And for the THIRD time in a row, with a festive vibe. I'm afraid we will once more have a lot of repetitive pieces like with the last DLC.
They also specifically mentioned flower shaped things... Again
 
To be clear if I could halve the number of canids and antelope ingame and replace them all with fowl, waterfowl, and wading birds I would do it in a heartbeat. But at this point if Frontier is going to continue doing this I'd rather they just wrap up development sooner rather than later so I can go all-in on modding without worrying about re-downloading them every time a new DLC comes out.
Mods haven't broken since Version 1.13 or 1.14.

The blackbuck and nilgai are fine but both have a reputation in NA as roadside zoo/safari park animals rather than things you'd see in accredited zoos. And the less said about the elephant and raccoon dog the better.
Why do the blackbuck and nilgai have such a reputation in North America? Not disputing it (I am from the EU), I just want to know.

And why is a raccoon dog/tanuki so bad?
 
Why do the blackbuck and nilgai have such a reputation in North America? Not disputing it (I am from the EU), I just want to know.
I am also from the EU and I just looked up at Zootierliste and saw, that the Nilgai has more holders in North America than in Europe.
The blackbuck on the other hand is kinda a rarity in North American Zoos
 
Yeah, +100 pieces look a lot (about half we used to get with scenery DLCs) but then they only mentioned lanterns, benches, light boxes and decorative panels. So no real building set (and nothing grided probably). And for the THIRD time in a row, with a festive vibe. I'm afraid we will once more have a lot of repetitive pieces like with the last DLC.
Im not getting my hope up before i actually see whats in there. Americas advertised 80+ when in practise it really where just 30sih and 50 dublicates, with really only a handfull that where usable outside of a mexican party area.

So 100+ piece really dont say anything to me at this moment
 
I am quite happy: We got an announcement, the release date is soon, the leak was true, we got a blackbuck out of this - and canid lovers got a very unique canid, the tanuki.

  • A honey badger is strong, I love honey badgers (even though I haven't seen one conciously IRL).
  • A nilgai was often demanded by supporters of an India theme/pack, I would have preferred a gaur though. But a Nilgai does help Indian representation a lot.
  • The blackbuck is wonderful
  • Père David's deer is ... "just" a deer, but an amazing conservation story.
  • The elephant is an elephant (someone here feared that a 0 % Borneoan pymy elephant would be too small, maybe about the size of P. falconeri?), I am neutral but the trailer pics look amazing.
  • The lion-tailed macaque I am at least neutral to - another macaque is good and many really love monkeys. I am not the primate-lover or primate-builder, but that is not the fault of the lion-tailed macaque or of Frontier, let alone of any of you. I didn't build for many primates in Zoo Tycoon 1 times either.
  • The tanuki is one of the more unique canids AFAIK, closer to a mustelid or raccoon than to a coyote or so. I am good with this choice, but the tanuki is not my favourite.

I would have replaced:
  • Nilgai for Gaur
  • Borneoan pygmy elephant for golden pheasant, fishing or marbled cat.
 
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