Newcomer / Intro Do I really need better thrusters?

[Beauknowsdiddly]

So I'm working on fitting my Type 9 Heavy for mining via aRJay's advise https://coriolis.io/outfit/type_9_heavy?code=A0pktpFklndpsif62m2m2m--0204--0707Cj4fCe321vC0P9C52i.Iw18ZQ==.CwBj5AmawRlilaQMzXiIA===..EweloBhA2AWECsBGUBTAhgcwDapCJCIkKUoA
But holy crap! 51 million for thrusters? That's more than my power plant, power distributer and FSD put together. Why the heck are they so expensive? Do I really need 7A thrusters? I have 7E now. What do you guys think about that?

PS And what would you recommend would be the easiest fire group for this build? I'm on a PC

 

[Imo]

So I'm working on fitting my Type 9 Heavy for mining via aRJay's advise https://coriolis.io/outfit/type_9_heavy?code=A0pktpFklndpsif62m2m2m--0204--0707Cj4fCe321vC0P9C52i.Iw18ZQ==.CwBj5AmawRlilaQMzXiIA===..EweloBhA2AWECsBGUBTAhgcwDapCJCIkKUoA
But holy crap! 51 million for thrusters? That's more than my power plant, power distributer and FSD put together. Why the heck are they so expensive? Do I really need 7A thrusters? I have 7E now. What do you guys think about that?

PS And what would you recommend would be the easiest fire group for this build? I'm on a PC

one good mission will pay enough to get them.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I have little experience with the Type 9 (I hate to fly it almost as much as I hate the Cutter), so take this with a grain of salt. The Type 9 handles like a cow, because it is, in essence, a flying brick the size of a football stadium. No choice of thrusters will change that.

Having said that, depending on the availability of credits and the level of engineering you have available, I see two choices. One, cough out the dough for the 7A thrusters and pay for them with one cargo load of whatever is fancy these days, or two, save 40 million and undersize the thrusters to 6A and engineer the heck out of them. 7E are just not worth keeping, but they will, off course, get you from A to B at no additional cost other than time and patience.

You can see the effect the thruster choice has on your loadout down at the bottom of the Coriolis screen; scroll down and switch to profiles, you will get some charts how your ship will perform. Clone your browser tab, make some changes and compare. The dashed line marks your current total mass, so you can read speed and jump range from the chart. Also notice how the pitch, yaw and roll perfomance changes with thruster choice. All values are very low (it's a cow), but seven degrees per second can make a huge difference in how bad it feels to fly at that level (6A fully engineered vs. 7A unengineered).

Play around and notice how little thruster choice matters for a fully laden T9. It's a cow. Also, make sure you buy your stuff at 15% discount in Li Yong-Rui space.

 

[Factabulous]

So you want to go faster? Then you want better thrusters

But no - only upgrade if you want to (and have the credits including the rebuys). Also you don't need to go straight to 'A' grade - 'D' is often a good upgrade as it is lighter than 'E' and so will improve your jump range.

Firegroups : For mining you need to shoot a prospector (to check the rock contents), then fire the mining lasers (to free the minerals), then fire collectors to ... collect stuff. Maybe one group with lasers + prospector and another with lasers + collectors - that way you can always mine and just choose whether you are looking for a rock or collecting from it (collectors last a long time so you end up mainly in the Prospector FG).

Oh yeah - don't target a mining fragment when you fire a Collector or it will ONLY collect that fragment - if nothing is targeted it will hang around until it expires.

BTW: Arjay's build is a bit out of date IMHO - I'd use a size 7 Universal Multi-Limpet Controller* (which has collectors AND prospectors in a single module) and ditch the Prospectors / Collectors. And fit Supercruise Assist and Advanced Docking Computers, for comfort I'd also point out that a size 4B Fuel Scoop is only slightly slower than a 4A, but much cheaper. In general always buy a 'B' fuel scoop unless you are feeling rich. And even then ....

* only issue here is that if you accidentally have all 8 collectors out then it won't let you fire a prospector. Hmm, easier to see than explain, you'll get it

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

TL;DR to my post: I don't think thruster choice matters much on a T9 without engineering.

 

[Untilting]

I think the rule of thumb is to assume modules will cost twice what the ship did.

I presume the 7A thrusters are there since the T9 is not very manoeuvrable, it's to make you a bit more sprightly getting from rock to rock. Since you are just laser mining I wouldn't have thought it was a showstopper requirement (whereas core mining requires moving to points around an asteroid to fire seismic charges into various fissures). Maybe try slapping in an unengineered 7D and see how you get on. Once you've got some more money in the bank you could invest in a 7A and engineer it.

Are you familiar with the pirate pattern for mining? When you drop in a ring to mine, often a pirate shows up to scan you. If your hold is empty or just has limpets it goes away again and you are safe to mine. But if you log off and back on again a pirate will often respawn, and this time you will have goodies they want. Good thrusters are better if you need to get away from a ring's mass lock ASAP and make a jump.

If cash is tight I'd possibly think about using something smaller for now (a Keelback or Python) - smaller holds but much lower rebuys. I'm just risk-averse

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

BTW: Arjay's build is a bit out of date IMHO - I'd use a size 7 Universal Multi-Limpet Controller* (which has collectors AND prospectors in a single module) and ditch the Prospectors / Collectors.

The universal limpet controller is very heavy. I would still go with discrete limpet controllers; you really don't need more than one prospector at a time, so a 1A will be fine, and paring that with one 3A, one 5A and one 7A collector plus one 3C mining collector (use that one just for the collector limpets) you get 14 active collectors instead of seven (deduct one for the prospector) for the universal controller at pretty much the same laden jump range. Reduce amount of controllers to taste and budget.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Are you familiar with the pirate pattern for mining? When you drop in a ring to mine, often a pirate shows up to scan you. If your hold is empty or just has limpets it goes away again and you are safe to mine. But if you log off and back on again a pirate will often respawn, and this time you will have goodies they want. Good thrusters are better if you need to get away from a ring's mass lock ASAP and make a jump.

Other things to think about when planning to go mining in a T9: First of all, it takes a while to fill it up; if you don't fill it up in one session, you don't need a T9. If you break your mining up into multiple sessions you will have to deal with said pirates. And then there is the selling part.

Unless you have a carrier to store the haul (which I assume you don't, because 51 million for thrusters should not be an issue for a carrier owner) you have to sell your haul in one go. Which means you might get hit by the bulk sales tax and / or may need to travel further to avoid it (or to get a good price), which raises the danger of pirate interdictions.

An alternate way to go is with a medium ship that fills quicker and allows you to sell in smaller batches. A typical mining Python will carry 192t, a Krait maybe 128, and the Asp is also a very good miner and will hold about 96 tons. So you have a bit of a choice how long your mining sessions will be; filling a T9 can become a grind unless you really enjoy laser mining (which, personally, I find very boring). The three mediums above also make good core miners, which is much, much more fun, but a little less efficient. The big core rush is over, but there are still core minerals that sell for over 700k per ton.

Just a few alternatives to think about before you commit to the cow .

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

aaaand to top off my barrage of posts (and turn this into a mining discussion ): Here is the 96t Phantom I go core mining with these days. It is a bit pricy and has a lot of engineered parts, but it is fun to use. I have also clicked together an unengineered 192t Python and 96t AspX miner for good measure. The Python is pretty expensive, but the Asp is a steal and quickly earn back its investment, and has better laden jump range. I fitted them both with the largest possible PD and both core and laser mining tools, but you could ditch one or the other for your preferred mining style. Carrying both mining lasers and core mining tools allows you to do both at the cost of efficiency of the laser mining (assuming you can power more mining lasers with the distributor - not sure there).

As for reference: Selling a 96t (plus 6t in your refinery bins) load of core minerals gets you upwards of 70 million, a 192t python load of core minerals can be sold for 138+ million. 512t of Platinum go for 143+ million. Think about it .

 

[Beauknowsdiddly]

Well regrettably, I've already purchased the cow! lol. I've been working on getting it fitted for a few days now. I'm just about there on the Core Internals. Only the 5D life support and 7A thrusters left there. Still quite a bit on the optional though. I've been using my Cobra MK III scanning planets to make the credits to fit the T9. I haven't even started mining yet. But I'm getting there. When you say, "one good mission will pay for them." I have no clue what mission you could be referring to. I think I'm still a little too new for those kind of missions. It took me a week to get enough to buy the cow lol.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I think Imo means "one good haul".

To be clear: Nothing wrong with laser mining in a T9, loads of people do. Just be aware of the caveats, and I was just trying to point out some alternatives. The Cobra also makes a good core miner, the sessions are really short but you almost always avoid bulk tax, and if I remember, you can fit like 16t or so plus the refinery bins (4t in a 1A refinery) in it and make around 14 million per run.

Lots of choices, I am afraid . And yes, I am a core mining fanboy. Laser mining is very efficient, but boring, and you need to do large quantities to earn some good money. I am a bit out of the loop, but is Platinum still the thing to laser mine?

 

[Ashnak]

The T-9 won't move, no matter which drives you put in there. That said, if you want to make the best out of a bad situation, get those 7A thrusters. There are a few other things with that build I'd change, though.
The T-9 has a weak distributor - you don't even have power to run two of those mining lasers continously, three will drain your capacitor in no time. That means you have way too many collector limpets - 3 limpets per effective laser are sufficient. A single 7A multi limpet controller would suffice (and those 20 tons additional mass don't chage anything).
One other thing: those shields won't protect you from anything except maybe bouncing off an asteroid. You can save a bit of money there and not lose much effective shield strength (due to the faster recharge) by replacing them with 6C bi-weaves.
If you have some money left, you might invest it into better bulkheads.

 

[Beauknowsdiddly]

Wow such good information here! Thank you Everyone!!

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

The T-9 has a weak distributor - you don't even have power to run two of those mining lasers continously, three will drain your capacitor in no time. That means you have way too many collector limpets - 3 limpets per effective laser are sufficient. A single 7A multi limpet controller would suffice (and those 20 tons additional mass don't chage anything).

Oh yeah, I missed that, good point. I usually fit from a core mining perspective, and in core mining there is only one thing better than a lot of collectors - more collectors .

 

[metatheurgist]

Definitely don't use E modules though.

 

[Northpin]

So I'm working on fitting my Type 9 Heavy for mining via aRJay's advise https://coriolis.io/outfit/type_9_heavy?code=A0pktpFklndpsif62m2m2m--0204--0707Cj4fCe321vC0P9C52i.Iw18ZQ==.CwBj5AmawRlilaQMzXiIA===..EweloBhA2AWECsBGUBTAhgcwDapCJCIkKUoA
But holy crap! 51 million for thrusters? That's more than my power plant, power distributer and FSD put together. Why the heck are they so expensive? Do I really need 7A thrusters? I have 7E now. What do you guys think about that?

PS And what would you recommend would be the easiest fire group for this build? I'm on a PC

Nah, you dont really need 7A Thrusters on a T9 - you are still a sitting duck.
I usually go for 7D thrusters on my T9.
But make sure you get into engineering - Felicity can see you sorted out for G3 dirty drives with drag drives experimental and that will help much better than 7A drives unengineered

Also dont go for 7A Collectors. it's a waste. Go for 7C ULC and augment it with a 3A prospector.
I've altered your build accordingly

Some details for the build above

• i've added 7C ULC - you get 8 limpets, for mining you only need to bind the Collectors to firegroup (you can ignore the rest of the limpet typey for laser mining)
• 3A Prospectors, they will get out the maximum number of fragments while laser mining, never use any prospector that's not A rated (and avoid mining in systems that are not Pristine), while you can use the prospectors from the ULC, it also means you need to use the more expensive and heavier 7A ULC, but most important - it will eventually interfere with your collectors, so better keep using a dedicated 3A prospector.
• i've added Supercruise Assist and Advanced Docking computer, they make for quite some nice QOL
• i've added a DSS - you need it if you intend to mine in hotspots - which is recommended (but mine near the center of the hotspot or within 5-10 percent off the center)
• i've added a 5D SLF hangar - it can provide you the time needed to wake out incase you get unwanted attention while minng. It's recommented to use hired Expert pilots and fire them before selling any minerals (or before cashing in ANYTHING since they will get their % wage our of any cash you may get, even if they're active or not)
• also, quite important, fit a PDT in one of the underbelly utility slots - pirates will love to drain you of cargo
• i've fitted military grade bulkheads - better safe than sorry, however the price is quite steep, but you can use the saving from using 7D drives
• if you feel comfortable with your combat avoidance skills, you can drop the SLF and the Military Grade armor, but i'd still recommend to keep the underbelly PDT just in case.

For fire groups

• Fire Group A, Trigger 1: Discovery Scanner, Trigger 2: all other scanners and DSS (you can use the other scanners in normal space while getting some errors from DSS, but hey... deal with it)
• Fire Group B, Trigger 1: Mining Lasers (all 3) AND Collector Limpets (when you mine, after you prospect the rock, just press main trigger and it will fire all mining lasers and all limpets and will refresh limpet if they get lost), Trigger 2: Prospector Limpets

As soon as you get in the ring, wait for pirates to scan you then wait for them to leave
Deploy the SLF and order it to defend (iirc it's the default state, but better to be sure) - i'd recommend you to use either the Taipan with fixed pulse lasers or the GU-97 with fixed pulse lasers, the reason is they also have PDT as their utility and may be helpful for their safety or yours
Start prospecting and mining

Not at last: Dont forget your limpets!

 

[Fnord Velkor]

...
As soon as you get in the ring, wait for pirates to scan you then wait for them to leave
...

Specifically, wait for the white High-Wake icon that shows they have really gone - they can go out of your sensor range and come back again after a while as the scum prowl around searching for helpless miners to feed their enormous broods of offspring.

 

[Factabulous]

If pirates do demand payment you can always give them what they want and they will usually head off happy to feed their children. ofc that relies on you

1) Noticing their demands
2) Being able to work out how many tons they are demanding (as they can demand a credit value)
3) Being fast enough to drop the goods

In a T9 you will usually hardly notice the amount they demand as T9s are big and pirates are smol.

 

[aRJay]

E rated core modules are the poorest performing version at that size and usually mass a lot their only saving grace is that they are cheap but that is only a reason to keep them if you are about to sell the ship. I think it says a lot about how good 7E thrusters are when a 7E cargo rack costs nearly twice as much.
A rated modules are the most expensive and at larger sizes very expensive, actually those thrusters aren’t that bad an 8A fuel scoop comes in at just under 290 million credits.

The trouble with trying to pay off pirates is they can’t count I have yet to see one wait the full ten seconds they say they will give you before they start firing and in that alleged 10 seconds you have to navigate to the right tab find the least vital cargo and dump enough to satisfy them.

 

[Codger]

Need is a strong word. You don't need anything but the free Sidewinder to have fun in this game

But for the T9 specifically, better thrusters won't make a huge difference. At least get some 7D's though. All the E-class modules are trash (heavy and low performance).

You'll need engineering to spruce up the T9 a bit more, but it will never be agile. It's still great fun to fly, like a floating barge.

I've made mine combat-capable so I can just destroy any pirates that might dare to challenge me. It still carries 756 tons of stuffs.