Do you hate the Engineer change? Let the Beta burn!
- Thread starter Roybe
- Start date
No idea, we shoudls electw ahtw e want and get a material list of what the engineer needs to adjust it towards this. then you collect them and DONE.
peole happy with just mid g5's could just choose mid G5's and end with less grind.
I'm going to use a parable to explain what you are doing here, FD:
There's one student who studies 16 hours a day, even though you only need 1 hour a day to get a 9/10 mark, which is what 99% of the other students are doing. The teacher, deeming the situation unfair, decides to force all students to study 5 hours per day, but now guarantees that everyone will get a perfect 10/10 mark.
Whose life are you trying to improve, Frontier?
There's one student who studies 16 hours a day, even though you only need 1 hour a day to get a 9/10 mark, which is what 99% of the other students are doing. The teacher, deeming the situation unfair, decides to force all students to study 5 hours per day, but now guarantees that everyone will get a perfect 10/10 mark.
Whose life are you trying to improve, Frontier?
Last edited:
So far, I think the new bingoneering system looks better.
Not perfect, but definitely better.
If I had some good jump range roll, it would anger me quite a lot if I was forced to "give it away".
The best way to deal with this, is to let the best rolls in the game be the measure of how far others can reach, with in the new system.
Also; I think the new system looks much better organized. [yesnod]
Not perfect, but definitely better.
If I had some good jump range roll, it would anger me quite a lot if I was forced to "give it away".
The best way to deal with this, is to let the best rolls in the game be the measure of how far others can reach, with in the new system.
Also; I think the new system looks much better organized. [yesnod]
Yes. It makes you wonder what the purpose is behind the design decisions.
I prefer the new engineer to the old, except for the non-latching of grade progression.
FD could do us a favour by publishing that part of the impact assessment of the design document that details the effect of these changes on the average player. After all, Sandy stated they see player's time as valuable and the 'grind' would not be increased.
Unless I failed arithmetic 101 or we get materials by the bucketful, I struggle to understand what he means.
Blackcompany
Banned
Exactly this. Its still so awful that its literally not worth the dev time to implement these changes. After all, if you arent going to improve anything...why bother touching it to begin with?
Blackcompany
Banned
Here here.
Elite is probably going to the uninstall bin for me, too. Its apparent that the implementation soulless grind is the only thing FDEV is either willing to, or capable of, offering...
Bye then.
I actually think the changes to Engineers are overall pretty good. The materials trader is good, the purchasable experimental effects are good, the guarantee of positive progress for every roll is EXTREMELY good, the changes to material/data storage are good, and new methods for obtaining those materials/data are good.
I only have two issues with it:
1. Grandfathering in god-rolls that may be unobtainable under the new system is a BAD IDEA
2. Requiring you to grind from g1-g5 for each individual module, instead of allowing you to start at g5 once you've unlocked g5, resulting in more grinding for people who don't care about min/maxing is a BAD IDEA
I only have two issues with it:
1. Grandfathering in god-rolls that may be unobtainable under the new system is a BAD IDEA
2. Requiring you to grind from g1-g5 for each individual module, instead of allowing you to start at g5 once you've unlocked g5, resulting in more grinding for people who don't care about min/maxing is a BAD IDEA
How many hours do you have min maxing modules? I have in the neighborhood of 2000 hours with some genuinely godly modules, and I'll tell you unequivocally that I would support a module wipe before I'll support a system that makes previous secondary/special effects combinations impossible while leaving them in by legacy. I think Fdev needs to either wipe the modules, or shave off all secondaries.
At this point I'd say that aspect of the new mechanic is the only problem I have. Besides that I think they're just replacing one boring, grindy system with another boring, grindy system; doesn't make any real difference to me
Last edited:
Still better - they're salty about the new system without even having tried it.
They conclude, from a 15 minute (if that) presentation of engineering a low end multicannon that they won't be able to get their supercooled penetrator railguns any more.
They complain that, instead of 1 or two rolls at a grade 5 engineer for a grade 5 module, they will now have to roll ~20 times every time they want to level a virgin module up to grade 5.
They ignore, however, that they had to grind for a week or so in order to collect the materials they needed for these 2 grade 5 rolls, and they can now just step through the materials broker, using (admittedly, a lot of them) the cheapest and most common materials available.
They also ignore that, while trying to collect those high end materials, they often (regularly) had to discard mid and low end materials, just to squeeze out a little more space in their inventory.
And they ignore that, in order to get the special effects, they had to spend engineer reputation, so that "1 or two rolls" would very rapidly become ~10 rolls: 2 to get the module with the effect, and another 8 to roll back from level 3 up to level 5.
Regarding the wiping of custom modules: I like the point someone else brought up a few pages back - if any of the grandfathered modules is used in a crime, it becomes hot under the new c&p rules.
OP's idea is frankly childish.
I don't like everything I've seen about the engineering changes, but I'm not going to throw a tantrum and refuse to participate because of it. I'm going to get in, test it and make constructive suggestions. I've already made one suggestion even before the beta has started.
I don't like everything I've seen about the engineering changes, but I'm not going to throw a tantrum and refuse to participate because of it. I'm going to get in, test it and make constructive suggestions. I've already made one suggestion even before the beta has started.
Yep, this is exactly how I feel too. Frontier did a really great job revamping the engineers only to then take an immense step backwards by introducing this new grade grind. So much awesome totally unravelled by one immense out of place decision that goes against the entire point of the revamp.
My suggestion is that those that have god weapons come and disrupt the Beta...which is what betas are for.
Some people want to not participate...that's their prerogative....but not what I was suggesting.
The new plan is horrible. I know that because I did not test it, I only watched part of the reveal live stream after work, but not all of it, but I KNOW it is enough to make me leave the game. I know all this because, well I just know it is all.
.
Actually I will test it, I have not made up my mind and if I dislike it, I will still play the game. So end result is I will wait and see, which is the only option everyone should take to see if it is good/bad/indifferent. At the moment we don't know anything how it will all pan out. It makes sense to voice concerns but threaten to leave the game over something you never tested? Why not do the smart thing, test it yourself. Give feedback backed up with actual testing data or from actual experience playing the changes, see what changes and then make an informed decision. I know that is asking a lot from some people, because hyperbole and ranting as well as threatening to quit the game is more satisfying (for some).
.
Calebe
.
Actually I will test it, I have not made up my mind and if I dislike it, I will still play the game. So end result is I will wait and see, which is the only option everyone should take to see if it is good/bad/indifferent. At the moment we don't know anything how it will all pan out. It makes sense to voice concerns but threaten to leave the game over something you never tested? Why not do the smart thing, test it yourself. Give feedback backed up with actual testing data or from actual experience playing the changes, see what changes and then make an informed decision. I know that is asking a lot from some people, because hyperbole and ranting as well as threatening to quit the game is more satisfying (for some).
.
Calebe
haha... same here although most of my modules i know ill never beat. theres only 1 thats not maxed with godlike secondarys so which will be done before 3 drops ^_^
to all those saltys.. tough - ya shouldve stopped farming creds at sothis.. quince or wherever n actually played the game.
... Am I missing something here? Seeing people complain that it's wrong for FD to let people keep their god-rolls from the old system in the new system because they'll still be massively overpowered in comparison to the new system.
But Sandro addressed this, didn't he? Multiple times? It says it in the focussed feedback forums, and he said it on streams? The new system takes account of the old system's secondary effects.
That means that your top tier old-style god-rolls, which are all based on the secondary effects, won't be more powerful than the new system's rolls because the top end of the god-roll secondaries are now the new system's top end standard. And on top of this, the new standard top end could be in some cases higher than the old god-roll secondaries.
If the old system allows, for example:
- Standard +30% to +50% range
- Secondaries push up to +57% or down to +35%
Then the new system allows
- Standard +30% to +58% range
- No secondaries pushing up or down.
Allowing players to keep their 1000 hour grind god-rolls simply respects the time they invested.
Making the new top end ever so slightly higher keeps modules engineered under the new system competitive.
Allowing G5 god-rolls to be translated to new-style top-end G4 when placed back in the workshop respects some of the time invested to get those rolls by not forcing people to start over again, AND provides an incentive for people to chuck in their old god-rolls to be ever slightly better in the new system.
I don't really see how allowing people to keep what they've got OR translate to the new system for potentially better results can be a bad thing under these circumstances?
But Sandro addressed this, didn't he? Multiple times? It says it in the focussed feedback forums, and he said it on streams? The new system takes account of the old system's secondary effects.
That means that your top tier old-style god-rolls, which are all based on the secondary effects, won't be more powerful than the new system's rolls because the top end of the god-roll secondaries are now the new system's top end standard. And on top of this, the new standard top end could be in some cases higher than the old god-roll secondaries.
If the old system allows, for example:
- Standard +30% to +50% range
- Secondaries push up to +57% or down to +35%
Then the new system allows
- Standard +30% to +58% range
- No secondaries pushing up or down.
Allowing players to keep their 1000 hour grind god-rolls simply respects the time they invested.
Making the new top end ever so slightly higher keeps modules engineered under the new system competitive.
Allowing G5 god-rolls to be translated to new-style top-end G4 when placed back in the workshop respects some of the time invested to get those rolls by not forcing people to start over again, AND provides an incentive for people to chuck in their old god-rolls to be ever slightly better in the new system.
I don't really see how allowing people to keep what they've got OR translate to the new system for potentially better results can be a bad thing under these circumstances?