Do you require assistance? I surrender!!

buellpilot

buellpilot
So with all these space battles going on and bounties being placed on people for attacking players how about offering some alternate outcomes...


After a battle with all these damaged ships, what if I hard dock with another ship and assist with repairs (a transfer of energy or spare parts). I might do this for money or cargo, or i might do it for free to help out a lower rank or just a more heavily damaged ship. Ohhh the humanity!!

I might even offer my attacker assistance after I turn the tables on him and out gun them...

Surrender...
Your in a battle, you shields are gone you hear the clash and clang of failing hull plates... you issue a surrender message on all channels.
Your opponent has the choice to continue on for the kill, or stop and accept your surrender and you live, perhaps you forfit your cargo, he might get a smaller bounty placed on him for attacking and stealing cargo... a much lesser offence than murder.

Of course once the mechanism is in available... I can play dead and broadcast a surrender or an SOS.... all of a sudden the morals of battle become much more complex, and potentially much more rewarding!!

All of the above has the potential to add texture and depth without getting in the way of those who just keep going and fire that last volley for the simple kill.
 

Benny Mac

Benny Mac
That's an interesting idea. Because the concept of "I surrender" would be generally accepted as 'a good thing' and 'not to be trifled with', I'd imagine that someone abusing the facility would be harshly dealt with.

E.g. a pirate luring others to their doom with an SOS/surrender would have an even greater bounty placed on them than normal.

E.g. a victim stalling for time with an SOS/surrender, and then fighting back, could be finished off by the pirate without incurring the extra murder bounty.

As you say, something apparently simple like this could create some interesting styles of play.
 

Memnoch

M
Benny Mac said:
E.g. a pirate luring others to their doom with an SOS/surrender would have an even greater bounty placed on them than normal.
Click to expand...
What method would you use to detect this kind of behaviour? A ship sends an SOS, someone responds and then the pirate attacks the other player. Perhaps that player has to comm the other and accept help. That flags a condition so that if they then start shooting at the other player they are considered rogue. The same if they didn't accept help as well.
 

buellpilot

buellpilot
Memnoch said:
What method would you use to detect this kind of behaviour? A ship sends an SOS, someone responds and then the pirate attacks the other player. Perhaps that player has to comm the other and accept help. That flags a condition so that if they then start shooting at the other player they are considered rogue. The same if they didn't accept help as well.
Click to expand...

I guess once you send a surrender you can't fire your weapons during that engagement, you have put yourself at the mercy of your opponent.
The attacker is free to continue on and kill you unless they first acknowledge your message, once acknowledged they will face a stiffer penalty if they continue on for the kill.

I guess it would follow the conventions of using the white flag (whatever they are)!
 

The Killer Edible Poet

The Killer Edible Poet
buellpilot said:
That is kinda what i was thinking... even modern first person shooters like Battlefield have medics and engineers it not just all kill, kill, kill.
Click to expand...
I'd be up for that. Mix it in with a bit of bounty hunting. Be a bit like calling in the A team. ;)

Of course every pirate in the system would be gunning for you, try to lure you in with 'fake' stranded ships etc, but that would just add to the fun.
 

Kipper

K
I played a game with a surrender mechanic once. It was called 'Pirates of the Burning Sea'.

Basically, Player A's (sailing ship) would be shot to pieces by superior opposition, and they could cost a lot to replace - so you'd offer surrender.

Player B would then say "give me 100,000 doubloons and I'll let you go!"

Player A trades with Player B and hands over the gold.

Player B takes the gold, and proceeds to murder Player A anyway.

--

Now, this never happened to me I should add, because it's obvious what such a poor mechanic is going to lead to, its griefing paradise - double griefage!

I'm just warning against a poorly implemented surrender mechanism. I think E: D can handle it though as PotBS had no concept of 'crime' in PvP. A kill was fair game however it happened.

E: D can make sure that if you kill a clean ship, you can be flagged and bounties applied for the crime of 'murder' (or ship destruction if you're going down the automated escape pod route). Even worse, if you accept surrender and then break it by going on to murder/destroy the target - you can be given an extra criminal record/higher bounty for being dishonourable.

It would be good to see what crimes others have committed before going into combat with them so you can get an idea of how you're likely to be treated if you lose!
 

Memnoch

M
The Killer Edible Poet said:
Be a bit like calling in the A team. ;)
Click to expand...
"If you have a problem, and no one else can help, maybe you can hire..the guy in the Interplanetary Shuttle!"

Of course every pirate in the system would be gunning for you, try to lure you in with 'fake' stranded ships etc, but that would just add to the fun.
Click to expand...
It would also create a lot of distrust. Is that guy really hurt or is waiting to shoot me in the back? Other pirates probably wouldn't care and just go steaming in, guns blazing. So perhaps the problem will deal with itself after all....
 

The Killer Edible Poet

The Killer Edible Poet
Memnoch said:
"If you have a problem, and no one else can help, maybe you can hire..the guy in the Interplanetary Shuttle!"


It would also create a lot of distrust. Is that guy really hurt or is waiting to shoot me in the back? Other pirates probably wouldn't care and just go steaming in, guns blazing. So perhaps the problem will deal with itself after all....
Click to expand...

haha. "Let's modify the shuttle!"

I've never played Day Z, just read that ars.technica article. And yeah, thats the problem the 'medics' in that game have too. Check it out, interesting emergent gameplay.
 

Oddball

Oddball
@buellpilot....

Excellent idea. I like it :)

But, what if your opponent quits the game. All they have to do is reload a saved game and they have their ship and cargo intact.

People quitting the game while under attack or nearly dead is a big problem. If you quit, does the attacking player see your ship disappear? Or do you forfeit your ship and cargo when you quit?

[EDIT] Also, if you are nearly dead, you are better off committing suicide by flying into a space station or something as this would prevent other players from stealing your cargo and improving their rating.
 
Last edited:

Benny Mac

Benny Mac
Oddball said:
@buellpilot....

Excellent idea. I like it :)

But, what if your opponent quits the game. All they have to do is reload a saved game and they have their ship and cargo intact.

People quitting the game while under attack or nearly dead is a big problem. If you quit, does the attacking player see your ship disappear? Or do you forfeit your ship and cargo when you quit?
Click to expand...

Quitting without saving - including unfortunate network disconnects - I think needs to be dealt with quite harshly. Not doing so, as you point out, would be a way to duplicate resources. I think it was in Jumpgate TRI I heard it discussed as an emergency death-avoiding tactic. Not just annoying, but also an unwanted reminder of the real world.
 

kenwshmt

kenwshmt
'zap zap' .. shield down 10%
i surrender!
you give me a 100gw laser up from my 1gw pulse.

something fishy goin on.

That's as much commerce as anything else is.

now, if there's going to be ship to ship bartering, thats fine, but most were going on about not wanting any form of commerce ship to ship.

However... if your ship has several busted systems, and I have 'spare part kits' aboard, that would technically be commerce, but whats a spare part kit going to cost, and level dependent at that. levl3 wont do much for a lvl 5, maybe make it a lvl 3.

IF equipment cannibalizing is incorporated, I would 'break' my mining laser so you can get your 1gw pulse back on line, but that's true charity.
 

Memnoch

M
Most MP games deal with this by leaving your "avatar" in limbo. A logout procedure which takes 10 seconds or so to complete before your are safe. A disconnect would make your client disconnect but "you" would still be in the game and vulnerable until this timer expires. Problem solved.
 

buellpilot

buellpilot
Oddball said:
Also, if you are nearly dead, you are betting off committing suicide by flying into a space station or something as this would prevent other players from stealing your cargo and improving their rating.
Click to expand...

I guess the 'cost' of surrendering would need to be less than the insurance idea that DB has mentioned. If insurance is cheap then hell yeah jump in that escape pod and be dammed. However, if you lose your no claims discount and are a serial user of escape pods then maybe surrender might be more cost effective.

It also depends on where you pick up that new ship that your insurance pays for, if you are transported all the way back to the shipyards of Lave half a galaxy away, I would rather surrender, give up my cargo, and limp my ship to the nearest space station. Hell if I am far enough away I might even be happy to give up my ship, just to get to the nearest space station, where my bank account full of credits will buy me an old deep space junker to continue my journey!
 

Oddball

Oddball
@Memnoch....

Thank you for that. As I'm not a big gamer I didn't know that.
You learn something every day!

woof woof ! - That's my other dog impression.
 

Memnoch

M
An instant logout could be done somewhere entirely safe like a space dock, but not in space, even high security, and certainly not in combat. It begs the question of what happens to you if you the space station you were docked with when you logged out is destroyed by pirates or particularly miffed players? You could just spawn in the vicinity of the smashed station I suppose.
 

buellpilot

buellpilot
kenwshmt said:
'zap zap' .. shield down 10%
i surrender!
you give me a 100gw laser up from my 1gw pulse.

something fishy goin on.

That's as much commerce as anything else is.
Click to expand...

The surrender mechanic wouldn't be much different from the pirate mechanic except you get away with your life.

The assist/repair mechanic could perhpas be taken out of the commerce side of things by rewarding you in other ways, yes you have to buy spares/repair kits with credits with which to help yourself or others, but what you get back is credibility.

I presume like most games these days that Elite Dangerous will have a complex leveling and stats system, and some stats just can be bought or killed for, like being a do-gooder :eek:
 

Oddball

Oddball
@Memnoch....

Hi Memnoch. I came up with an idea on the kickstarter forums that solves the issue of 'time' regarding saved games.

The idea is that you can only save a game at a space station or space port and you are immediately placed in a cryotube where you are 100% safe. This way time can still pass by when you are not playing the game and when you emerge from your cryotube (load a saved game) you are always in the present tense. This, I think, is a reasonable solution because time would be the same for everyone.

However, in battles, there is the possibility that time could create another time dimension if a player could load a saved game and they re-started in the same system in the one that they just died in. They would be able to see the remains of their old ship because real time has progressed.

A big problem...

One solution to this is when a players ship get destroyed they would not be allowed to load a saved game. Instead their escape capsule is used and they are transported to the nearest star system. Similar to your suggestion in a way but the main issue being is that time would remain the same for everyone.

Anyway, that's how I would tackle it. I'm sure David has figured it out anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom