Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

What makes me sad about engineering is that places like the crashed anacondas were something the devs thought were needed. There is nothing--literally nothing--more time efficient for gathering mats than doing laps around an infinitely respawning yard of G3-G5 materials and then trading them around for what you need. Nothing else even comes close and that's tragic. They don't want to admit it's a grind...but they provide a far more optimal grind to address it. It's no less arduous a grind thanks to SRV mechanics, but it's far, FAR faster and more controllable by orders of magnitude. That's not players discovering better ways; that's devs slipping in appeasement mechanics and it's disheartening that THIS was the solution they came up with.

I mean, lots of things make me upset about engineering (Selene Jean, Marco F&$&ING Qwent, no G4 thrusters before Palin, etc etc.) But this particular thing is the single biggest, most complex issue I have on the topic.
I partly agree with you, I really don't like the relogging things, but I don't think the devs ever intended them to make up a shortfall of stuff for engineering. If that had been the intention, they could easily have done it without any need to relog by having a dozen cargo racks instead of three. I think those places were intended to be cool places to visit with some treats to find (and they are).

The problem is your phrase "time efficient". It's a game; I don't think the devs intended anything to be done with an emphasis on minimum time. Some players naturally approach it like that though, and I think it was silly of the devs not to consider "use cases" and the effect of relogging.

I think I recall that they said they intended to reduce the benefits of relogging, about a year ago. They've managed it with geological sites and signal sources (after fixing the exploit where you could disconnect and visit the source again). I hope they get round to giving the crash sites and Dav's Hope the same treatment (but increase the rewards there at the same time).
 
What makes me sad about engineering is that places like the crashed anacondas were something the devs thought were needed. There is nothing--literally nothing--more time efficient for gathering mats than doing laps around an infinitely respawning yard of G3-G5 materials and then trading them around for what you need. Nothing else even comes close and that's tragic. They don't want to admit it's a grind...but they provide a far more optimal grind to address it. It's no less arduous a grind thanks to SRV mechanics, but it's far, FAR faster and more controllable by orders of magnitude. That's not players discovering better ways; that's devs slipping in appeasement mechanics and it's disheartening that THIS was the solution they came up with.

I mean, lots of things make me upset about engineering (Selene Jean, Marco F&$&ING Qwent, no G4 thrusters before Palin, etc etc.) But this particular thing is the single biggest, most complex issue I have on the topic.
Indeed. There is billions of stars. But to get the gamey crap we need to enjoy gameplay beyond the powercreep wall players have to go to two places because the overly reliance on RNG, bugs, constant goalpost-shifting in how things work (and it's not even early access game) and lack of tools / documentation makes it too hard to find the elusive stuff in that bloated assortment of nonsense.
 
What makes me sad about engineering is that places like the crashed anacondas were something the devs thought were needed. There is nothing--literally nothing--more time efficient for gathering mats than doing laps around an infinitely respawning yard of G3-G5 materials and then trading them around for what you need. Nothing else even comes close and that's tragic. They don't want to admit it's a grind...but they provide a far more optimal grind to address it. It's no less arduous a grind thanks to SRV mechanics, but it's far, FAR faster and more controllable by orders of magnitude. That's not players discovering better ways; that's devs slipping in appeasement mechanics and it's disheartening that THIS was the solution they came up with.

I mean, lots of things make me upset about engineering (Selene Jean, Marco F&$&ING Qwent, no G4 thrusters before Palin, etc etc.) But this particular thing is the single biggest, most complex issue I have on the topic.
Still don't understand why anyone is grinding for mats! Just pick things up as you go. I have only been playing for 7 months and I have so much stuff now that I'm gonna have to find a manufactured mats trader to swap some G1's and G2's for something more useful. Just watched an Obsidian Ant video on how to find mats traders. It will make picking up stuff easier if I don't have to wade thru a sea if G1 and 2 mats to get to the really useful stuff (all my modules are now G3+). Not that the G1's and 2's aren't useful, you need 'em to get to the higher level upgrades so in a way they are just as important as the rare stuff.

Never visited a crashed conda, will go one day just to see what it looks like. Until then I will keep on "grinding"! 😅
 
Indeed. There is billions of stars. But to get the gamey crap we need to enjoy gameplay beyond the powercreep wall players have to go to two places because the overly reliance on RNG, bugs, constant goalpost-shifting in how things work (and it's not even early access game) and lack of tools / documentation makes it too hard to find the elusive stuff in that bloated assortment of nonsense.
This is simply untrue. Good ways to collect all kinds of materials without "grind" have already been described in this thread and a similar one. Proof that the described methods work has also been shown. But actually, you don't play the game anymore, do you? Not since the April update I guess.
 
Just came to post "Yes" in response to the opp. Before the broker's however, I was hating life just to find some yttrium for weeks. Actually caused me to quite the game for awhile because it was hit or miss for alot of the high grade stuff for G5.
 
The Brokers certainly improved things immensely.

Regarding "collecting as you go" that's still wholly dependent on what you regularly do as to whether you'll get what you need in decent amounts.

And also probably the size of the fleet you keep. Players with a one and only probably don't feel it as much as seekers of variety.
 
Serious question. I don't mean 'do you enjoy having an engineered ship' or 'do you enjoy trying out different engineering modifications', I mean do you actually enjoy the process, the things that you do to get to that engineered module?

Acquiring vast amounts of materials, trading them when (inevitably) you don't have the one you want, at a massive loss, getting a series of lousy rolls that eat all your mats before you complete the mod you're aiming for?

I read posters on here stating that they've engineered whole fleets of ships in next to no time. I believe them- why wouldn't they tell the truth?- but I'm not enjoying anything like the same rate of progress. I decided to fully engineer my mission runner, an 'A' rated Python, back in November. I'd been tinkering with it for a while, I had what I thought was a huge amount of materials stockpiled and I'd unlocked a few engineers. I gave up half way through December and, in spite of having a whole week off at the end of the month, I didn't even flash Elite up. I just couldn't face it any more.

For most of the last four years I've put in a couple of hours a night, two or three times a week. Not exactly a power player, but not 'casual' either. Now I'm watching ED videos instead of playing- what kind of saddo does that? :eek: It's over a fortnight since I last played and I don't have any particular urge to change that.

Each completed mod has been a revelation. The Python is transformed. I really can't express how much of a difference the engineering makes- it's vastly more than finally installing 'A' class modules when I started the game.

But that's just hacking me off. It's painfully obvious just how pants stock ships are compared to engineered ones. I've got a whole fleet of vanilla ships that are a real struggle to just survive in. I don't mind running away every now and then, but the AI is balanced against much tougher kit than I'm flying. I can see where the 'git gud' crowd are coming from- my partly engineered Python is just melting AI opponents! But I'm about as 'gud' as I'm going to 'git', my fleet needs a ton of work and yeGodsinHeaven I'm burned out just getting one of them up to scratch!

I'd love to try out some of the newer ships, but I know that stock, even 'A' rated, they'll be easy pickings for dumb as a brick AI with ridiculously strong weapons and shields. It's not about skill, or lack thereof, the game's set-up is suffering from power creep. I wouldn't object to that, if engineering to the new standard wasn't such a massive pain in the posterior for me.

Am I looking at this all wrong? Is engineering actually a fun activity that I'm just not 'getting'? [uhh]

I really like unlocking engineers in Elite. First travel to Maia for Farseer, hauling some gold for Lei, smuggling some good for dweller. Although they overreacted with 500 mining ore. It should be half of it.

Gathering materials? Depends. Raw materials are fine. Encoded materials? I've no idea how to acquire them properly. I scan ships and wakes. Everything else I have to use material trader because I dont understand where to find the specific one encoded material and I refuse to grind Davs Hope. I dont like grinding in game. Im just playing the game but if I have to reload location over and over then Im losing immersion. I will go once to Davs Hope and thats all.

Destroying transport ships to gain specific material. Terrible Idea. I dont want to kill innocent people or people who are little bit shady(smugglers) for some materials. I can rob them but not kill the ship. Hatchbreaker limpets should help gatherng materials from ships. Bad Design.

Destroying wanted combat ships to gain materials is ok.

Missions which gives us materials are another good source and good idea. It gives us a purpose to do some crappy designed missions that pay nothing compared to void opals.

Emissions - As a main source for many materials. Terrible and boring task to do. I hate it.
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I like the concept of gathering materials and Im ok to the fact that most of them are rare but the tasks you have to do to get them are terrible designed. There should be tons of places like Davs Hope. Emissions should have many different anomalies and should be rare. This would create excitement to do them. You come to system and got indication about emission and you are excited to do it. Give us 50 different scenarios that can occur during emission exploring. Thargoid, small conflict between two anarchy factions and you are in middle of it, you opened some wormhole that will teleport your ship 100ls from this place after a while etc

There are many simple ideas how to make this game more entertaining and its not only about gathering materials but other elements of the game. Thats why I dont understand why we need atmospheric landings or spacelegs instead of demanding to fix the existing mechanics of the game.
 
Engineering isn't fun and engaging gameplay. It is a grind. That's how the game punishes you for not being strategic about things.

To be strategic and avoid some of the engineering grind, get a solid set of pinned blueprints from your favourite engineers. No longer do you need to visit them in person to perform your favourite modifications.

Unlock Guardian modules like the power plant, shield, module and hull reinforcements, as well as power distributor. They are equivalent to some engineering on stock modules. Also there is no stock module available that can do what the shield reinforcement does.

Engineer some things up to grade 3. You get a lot of the benefits and it doesn't require the most exotic materials.

This is not to say that engineering is fun. It is just to make it a bit more tolerable and get it out of the way for the most part.

You'll still need to visit engineers for experimental effects.
 
The Brokers certainly improved things immensely.

Regarding "collecting as you go" that's still wholly dependent on what you regularly do as to whether you'll get what you need in decent amounts.

And also probably the size of the fleet you keep. Players with a one and only probably don't feel it as much as seekers of variety.
Just been collecting mats on Hera Tani's home world. There are loads of geological formations, I have found tons of antimony, and I was low on selenium so found some of that too. Now got chromium and cadmium up the wazoo! I do like it when I can kill 2 birds: pick up mats, and go see the engineer. However, the trip to the cigar shop is a PITA!!
 
I really like unlocking engineers in Elite. First travel to Maia for Farseer, hauling some gold for Lei, smuggling some good for dweller. Although they overreacted with 500 mining ore. It should be half of it.

Gathering materials? Depends. Raw materials are fine. Encoded materials? I've no idea how to acquire them properly. I scan ships and wakes. Everything else I have to use material trader because I dont understand where to find the specific one encoded material and I refuse to grind Davs Hope. I dont like grinding in game. Im just playing the game but if I have to reload location over and over then Im losing immersion. I will go once to Davs Hope and thats all.

Destroying transport ships to gain specific material. Terrible Idea. I dont want to kill innocent people or people who are little bit shady(smugglers) for some materials. I can rob them but not kill the ship. Hatchbreaker limpets should help gatherng materials from ships. Bad Design.

Destroying wanted combat ships to gain materials is ok.

Missions which gives us materials are another good source and good idea. It gives us a purpose to do some crappy designed missions that pay nothing compared to void opals.

Emissions - As a main source for many materials. Terrible and boring task to do. I hate it.
--
I like the concept of gathering materials and Im ok to the fact that most of them are rare but the tasks you have to do to get them are terrible designed. There should be tons of places like Davs Hope. Emissions should have many different anomalies and should be rare. This would create excitement to do them. You come to system and got indication about emission and you are excited to do it. Give us 50 different scenarios that can occur during emission exploring. Thargoid, small conflict between two anarchy factions and you are in middle of it, you opened some wormhole that will teleport your ship 100ls from this place after a while etc

There are many simple ideas how to make this game more entertaining and its not only about gathering materials but other elements of the game. Thats why I dont understand why we need atmospheric landings or spacelegs instead of demanding to fix the existing mechanics of the game.
You know all those signals you see when you're in supercruise? Go check them out, there's lots and lots and lots of mats and data to be had out there in supercruise. And it's on the way to where you're going, so no skin off your teeth. Hang around a nav beacon and do some bounty hunting. Most of the time it will spawn wanted combat ships but occasionally you'll get a wanted transport ship. I know, it's seal clubbing, but those poor suckers have the mats we need, so my guilt is overridden by my greed! Heh heh, that even rhymes.
 
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I really like unlocking engineers in Elite. First travel to Maia for Farseer, hauling some gold for Lei, smuggling some good for dweller. Although they overreacted with 500 mining ore. It should be half of it.

Gathering materials? Depends. Raw materials are fine. Encoded materials? I've no idea how to acquire them properly. I scan ships and wakes. Everything else I have to use material trader because I dont understand where to find the specific one encoded material and I refuse to grind Davs Hope. I dont like grinding in game. Im just playing the game but if I have to reload location over and over then Im losing immersion. I will go once to Davs Hope and thats all.

Destroying transport ships to gain specific material. Terrible Idea. I dont want to kill innocent people or people who are little bit shady(smugglers) for some materials. I can rob them but not kill the ship. Hatchbreaker limpets should help gatherng materials from ships. Bad Design.

Destroying wanted combat ships to gain materials is ok.

Missions which gives us materials are another good source and good idea. It gives us a purpose to do some crappy designed missions that pay nothing compared to void opals.

Emissions - As a main source for many materials. Terrible and boring task to do. I hate it.
--
I like the concept of gathering materials and Im ok to the fact that most of them are rare but the tasks you have to do to get them are terrible designed. There should be tons of places like Davs Hope. Emissions should have many different anomalies and should be rare. This would create excitement to do them. You come to system and got indication about emission and you are excited to do it. Give us 50 different scenarios that can occur during emission exploring. Thargoid, small conflict between two anarchy factions and you are in middle of it, you opened some wormhole that will teleport your ship 100ls from this place after a while etc

There are many simple ideas how to make this game more entertaining and its not only about gathering materials but other elements of the game. Thats why I dont understand why we need atmospheric landings or spacelegs instead of demanding to fix the existing mechanics of the game.
Don't agree that there should be tons of places like Dav's Hope. There's already tons of mats everywhere, why do you need more? Sounds too much like easy mode to me. Some of us like a tiny bit of challenge in our games, take that away and there's no reason to play anymore.
 
I like the original premise of the Engineers.

A way to, over the course of your existence in the game meet and have dealings with folks on the fringe of society, maybe picking up small upgrades or tweaks to your ship here and there that further differentiate your ship from the others of its type in the galaxy, having to make tradeoffs as you go.

The implementation, however, is lackluster in the extreme, serving no other purpose than a fairly obnoxious timegate to leveling up your ship and getting its raid gear.
 
Don't agree that there should be tons of places like Dav's Hope. There's already tons of mats everywhere, why do you need more? Sounds too much like easy mode to me. Some of us like a tiny bit of challenge in our games, take that away and there's no reason to play anymore.
I mean, the idea of having lots of unique places to discover seems like a positive to me. The relative homogeneity of places to go in space could use some shaking up IMO. More things to do there or rewards for going there would just be icing on the cake.

You know all those signals you see when you're in supercruise? Go check them out, there's lots and lots and lots of mats and data to be had out there in supercruise. And it's on the way to where you're going, so no skin off your teeth. Hang around a nav beacon and do some bounty hunting. Most of the time it will spawn wanted combat ships but occasionally you'll get a wanted transport ship. I know, it's seal clubbing, but those poor suckers have the mats we need, so my guilt is overridden by my greed! Heh heh, that even rhymes.
RNG hates me so all the good sigs tend to be on the system edge for me if not past the farthest orbitals.
 
Unfortunately there is not much 'game' so they made engineering the 'game'
No one enjoys it but it's the best we've got at the moment
but the new era will no doubt bring amazing stuff
 
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