Not surprising, Monster Hunter is basically one singular, focused and refined gameplay loop that you either take or leave as a whole. What is does is all it does and it does it well.
Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?
- Thread starter Bill Clement
- Start date
Not surprising, Monster Hunter is basically one singular, focused and refined gameplay loop that you either take or leave as a whole. What is does is all it does and it does it well.
A while back set myself to fully engineer most of my ships, after each ship my play time was lower and lower until it reached a point of closing the game right after opening it, because it felt like a chore. Why would I bother with chores when there's other games that offer entertainment. Start to finish engineers are completely uninspiring and demotivating, especially when it leaves the g5 roll at a hair thin gap, that you know will take another 6 rolls to finish. Feels awful like a mobile game.
I find that comment a bit excessive regarding the "hair thin gap" and still needing 6 rolls to finish. Any G5 mod will take max 12 rolls in total but having said that, I personally find that most are complete at 9 rolls. I have a fleet of 12 ships and set myself the mission to engineer the lot to a possible max depending on their intended use.To say I enjoyed it would be an understatement. Once you get to know where things are I find it quite relaxing when completing another ship. See, engineering is absolutely a love/hate thing, no half way. That doesn't mean that because some players hate it that it should be removed or nerfed. It is what it is, if you don't like it then don't do it.
I think I can agree with a lot of this post but you seem to keep repeating one thing in your comments re engineering and that is you call it a dice roll. I apologise but I am not sure what you mean. When engineering was first introduced THAT was a dice roll in its truest sense. Todays engineering is an always win situation isn't it? so whatever roll you do to your module it is better than the last one. The number of rolls per grade is also fixed depending on your reputation so I fail to see where a dice comes into it.
In itself, yes, it's constant progression. But when you suddenly overnight get pitted against buffed AI in your favourite game activities because the power creep afforded to buff the environment to not be complete toss-overs - it's pretty much a loss on all fronts for the players, who dont use it.
Depends on what you consider an "always win" situation.
My take on the dice roll is exactly as you described it in Post #1157.
Whether it's an improvement from the past is irrelevant. It is still a dice roll to get to the next grade.
Doesn't quite fit with the term "engineering", espeically if you already had a blueprint, does it?
Engineering is when you draw up a plan or schematic stating what parts needs to be put together, and how to do it. And following that plan results in a 100% success rate. You don't try once, and only get it 10% right. Then try again, and now you've got another 5%.... or it could be 25%.
Honestly I do not care about reputation because that should logically have nothing to do with engineering.
That is a dice roll. That's not engineering.
We've already put all that effort finding the materials specified in the list. It should be ONE click, and that grade is over and done with.
Just like taking your car to the tuner. He has the parts and plans to get it done, and he'll get it done at one go.
I just find the overall arbitrary reality in this game off putting. And I find the supporters of these arbitrary mechanics more confusing. (I would have coined disgusting, but well... I'm trying to be a wee bit nicer today
) On one hand, when I argue on the gaming side of things, like faster supercruise, longer jump ranges, they talk about the physics of FSD travel and how ED is a simulation. And when we talk about stupid materials grind and how unrealistic the engineering dice roll is, all of a sudden it's all a game.
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I know where things are, knowing where things are doesn't turn it into gameplay, it's still equally boring and uninspiring. I would gladly say "yeah I don't like it so I won't do it" but that limits the game quite a bit, if engineering wasn't such a big part of the game it wouldn't be an issue. As it is now, I rather not play the game all together than go through it just to play it. It's a big market.
Just reading the last few posts I sense a common theme. I get that some people don't like either the material gathering process or the engineering process itself. But that covers so much of the game activities that I want to ask this question:-
Is there anyone who doesn't like material gathering, doesn't like engineering, but still enjoys ED and plays it regularly?
... because if you don't enjoy ED it's really not surprising that you don't like a subset of it.
Is there anyone who doesn't like material gathering, doesn't like engineering, but still enjoys ED and plays it regularly?
... because if you don't enjoy ED it's really not surprising that you don't like a subset of it.
That feels like a strange take to me since the majority of my gathering is done by specifically gathering rather than whatever I would be doing if gathering wasn't a thing. Pre 2.1 I would never be scooping bits from downed pirates or using limpets to hover up salvage in a CZ and breaking the flow of combat. If you're into missions that an alternative I guess, though again before I rarely sought those out. Missions spawns always felt to unpredictable to make it worth the effort outside of a few edge cases.
Mining still yields jack all for engineering in decent quantities and if you're deep core only it yields nothing.
Exploration specific? Nothing really. Yes, you can land on planets and search for mats but you don't have to explore for that. Works fine in the bubble. USSs? I suppose they are improved from being something I completely ignored prior to engineering though they mostly exist to inflate travel time now they have a use even if not particularly interesting.
For trade, well, missions are plentiful. So I guess if you're into that you're good. I had my fill between unlocking the FAS and unlocking Lei Cheung. Free trade is another matter; that period I spent hauling meds to rescue ships didn't actually get me any mats.
I'm not even sure who scans wakes all that regularly. Never seemed worth the slot till I needed the data rather than any result of the scans themselves.
Of all of that I'm not fond of trade and surface prospecting, combat feels actively diminished by gathering rather than gathering actually being an inherent part of the activity and mining isn't worth it for that purpose and a massive bottlenek unless you're augmenting it with some other gathering. So much to do while not getting jack all, so how could you conclude if you don't like gathering you don't like anything?
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Very wordy reply, but you did not answer his question, which was: is there anyone who does not like engineering and mats gathering, but who actually enjoys ED and plays it regularly?
Do you actually play ED?
I've been outside the bubble exploring. While I was out there I was keeping an eye out for landable planets with arsenic, because that is the one element I have not come across just by playing the ED game (not the engineering game, I don't play that!), and Aunty Felicity needs some of that so she can upgrade my FSD's to G5. Finally came across an ice moon with the combination of arsenic and loads of geological signals. Found my first arsenic and was amused to find it is a relatively common element, so I could have just swapped some of my rare elements for arsenic at the mat trader!
I was not at all bothered tho, the ice moon orbits a ringed gas giant so that was in the sky above me while I was driving around in my srv with that lovely piano music playing in the background. It was beautiful and relaxing, just what I needed after a very stressful Friday morning @ work! And there were also tons of genuinely rare elements there too so they will no doubt come in handy at some point. I also came across a terraformable planet on the way out there so I had over a million creds worth of data to sell to Aunty Felicity which also unlocked the G5 upgrades access!
So, I'm still mystified by the "mats gathering is such a grind" thing. I think someone would have to have a piece of their soul missing to not enjoy the beauty of what I experienced while playing ED this morning. And I was pretty chuffed to have got my G5 FSD with only 7 bits of arsenic too! Should leave enough to G5 my other 2 ships, and get the corrosive exp efx on at least 1 multicannon too.
I spent a wonderful morning gathering mats on an ice moon under a gorgeous ringed gas giant with lovely piano music playing in the background. Took those goodies to Auntie Felicity and got my FSD upgraded to G5. None of this felt like fluff or grind, I was really enjoying the whole experience. So I guess when Frontier added Horizons they had the above experience in mind. The thing is, I was not grinding for mats. I was doing some exploring, but I was also keeping an eye out for a landable planet with arsenic and geological signals. Which I eventually found, but I found a lot of other things on the way. Which is no surprise, that's the whole point of exploring!
So if you like exploration, then raw mats gathering is not a chore, quite the opposite in fact. But (and this is a really big but, sorta elephant-sized!) if you don't like exploring, then basically you're screwed. Need to play another game screwed. So yes, I'm beginning to see that for some people, buying mats would be the way to go. For an extortionate price if course, npc's need to feed their kids and all that! And they would be grinding so you don't have to grind, that would push prices up even further....
But it's still a real shame that people would then miss out on the whole point of engineering, which was to get people out there doing exploring, landing on planets and checking stuff out.That's why Horizons was basically Engineers plus landable planets, and I love the way the two combine, but lots of other players don't love it. They don't enjoy exploring. Which seems strange, ED is a space sim, surely exploring is a huge part of why we ever went into space?
It's alright. Any suggestions on how to improve it op?
Read the thread and you shall find some.
Love your avatar
The game as a whole is amazing, it looks absolutely stunning, flying a spaceship in elite certainly gives you a feeling of ... well flying a spaceship and ships look great.
I can write a ton of good things about the game, I love most aspects of it, but most of the game is tied to engineers as your ship is you.
The rank grind I personally don't mind, it's a reward for supporting a certain super power, it's only a few ships and it's up to you. Engineering is tied to all ships in open, it's not really that optional if you think about it.
Elite is suppose to be a sandbox, but they introduced engineering as some sort of end game like in an mmo. Usually in mmos the end game is a replayable content, tied with some sort of story and an entertaining group activity, usually offers variety of choices and matchmaking.
What's also different, in mmos end game content isn't relevant and it can't influence your game until you reach that point, in elite that's not the case.
Engineering as it is, discourages being in a group, it's all a scavenger "mission" and insult to injury is the dice roll for the engineered part.
It's tied to every aspect of the game and while in the process of engineering you are open to players that reached that point.
It just seems like they intentionally made the activity to take exceptionally long without any valid reason or actual engaging gameplay, just to show big numbers on "hours played" and it feels like an adaptation of a mobile game into a PC one.
Even unlocking some engineers where you can buy only 48 lavian brandy, I was just waiting for a popup "pay to skip the wait" for the leftover 2 units, put it on a touch screen and you got yourself a mobile game. (btw go to lavian brandy wiki and read the comments, that's elite end content in a nutshell).
Fdev needs to decide, is elite an mmo or not. Keeping it in this state, in between the two, doesn't really look appealing.
I tried getting more friends to play but they all gave up when they reached engineers, I stuck around for a lot longer because I appreciate the game a lot more, eventually got burned out engineering my ships.
To answer your question, I love elite but absolutely hate engineering. I got burnt out but still pop in now and then to do activities I enjoy, however now I play other games as well so elite gets a smaller portion of game time.
Wow- this thread has legs! Thanks to all who've posted and shared their ideas, it's much appreciated!
I used to love playing ED, but power creep overtook my fleet. My default action became 'run away' from the AI, combat in my non-engineered ships was no longer viable. That put a huge amount of game content behind a grind wall. I spent several months upgrading one of my ships, it proved to be a colossal pita, even with all the very kind help and advice I received on the forum.
I quit playing.
The question you ask is actually back to front in my case. I loved everything I did in Elite apart from engineering, but the requirement to engineer to continue to access the gameplay I loved is just too much for me. I don't have a lot of leisure time, I'm not willing to spend it on activities I don't enjoy.
The sad thing is I'm not missing the game. Engineering has left such a foul taste in my mouth I find myself willing to just walk away from what was my dream come true on release.
I only came back to the forum tonight on a whim. I'm amazed that this thread is still going- I guess the topic generates strong opinions in most people. Unfortunately, I can't see a polarising issue as good for any customer base. I really hope Frontier can figure out a way to resolve the conundrum, because just leaving things as they are will only drive players away from what was once the very best space themed game on the market.
Yes, but they'll infuriate players who actually enjoy gathering materials for engineering!
Make the grind a one time only activity- once a mod is unlocked, no more mat gathering to apply it to identical components.
Simplify the trading process- either by axing most of the mats required, or at least allowing the mat trader to deal in all materials.
Change the utterly bonkers exchange rate.
Have alternatives to mind numbingly boring grind activities. Challenging missions with significant material rewards would be nice. Failing that, just allow us to buy mats. I'd much rather trade/mine/smuggle/bounty hunt 'X' million credits than run around like a demented Mario Cart driver for hours on end at what would otherwise be really cool hidden locations, or drop into endless USSs, or trundle around shooting unconvincing outcrops on unconvincing terrain features for what seems like forever.
But my opinion no longer really matters. I'm not playing the game any more, I'm unlikely to buy future content. I'm not even particularly likely to visit the forum any more. I wish you all well, I hope the game continues to be a success and I'll try, at some point, to bite the bullet and start to play again. For now though, I'm afraid I'm taking an extended break.
I used to love playing ED, but power creep overtook my fleet. My default action became 'run away' from the AI, combat in my non-engineered ships was no longer viable. That put a huge amount of game content behind a grind wall. I spent several months upgrading one of my ships, it proved to be a colossal pita, even with all the very kind help and advice I received on the forum.
I quit playing.
The question you ask is actually back to front in my case. I loved everything I did in Elite apart from engineering, but the requirement to engineer to continue to access the gameplay I loved is just too much for me. I don't have a lot of leisure time, I'm not willing to spend it on activities I don't enjoy.
The sad thing is I'm not missing the game. Engineering has left such a foul taste in my mouth I find myself willing to just walk away from what was my dream come true on release.
I only came back to the forum tonight on a whim. I'm amazed that this thread is still going- I guess the topic generates strong opinions in most people. Unfortunately, I can't see a polarising issue as good for any customer base. I really hope Frontier can figure out a way to resolve the conundrum, because just leaving things as they are will only drive players away from what was once the very best space themed game on the market.
Yes, but they'll infuriate players who actually enjoy gathering materials for engineering!
Make the grind a one time only activity- once a mod is unlocked, no more mat gathering to apply it to identical components.
Simplify the trading process- either by axing most of the mats required, or at least allowing the mat trader to deal in all materials.
Change the utterly bonkers exchange rate.
Have alternatives to mind numbingly boring grind activities. Challenging missions with significant material rewards would be nice. Failing that, just allow us to buy mats. I'd much rather trade/mine/smuggle/bounty hunt 'X' million credits than run around like a demented Mario Cart driver for hours on end at what would otherwise be really cool hidden locations, or drop into endless USSs, or trundle around shooting unconvincing outcrops on unconvincing terrain features for what seems like forever.
But my opinion no longer really matters. I'm not playing the game any more, I'm unlikely to buy future content. I'm not even particularly likely to visit the forum any more. I wish you all well, I hope the game continues to be a success and I'll try, at some point, to bite the bullet and start to play again. For now though, I'm afraid I'm taking an extended break.