Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

[Old Duck]

All this said, if you want to get into PvP it's engineer or die. Put your mind to the grind and just accept it. [haha]

This is the primary reason I don't PvP. It's not just an ED thing, other games like ESO require meta builds and top-tier armor, and for me personally, that's just too much work and not enough fun, and too "cookie cutter" for my tastes. I enjoy PvP where skill, not spreadsheets, wins the day. Thus I stick to games like Overwatch for PvP.

BTW, IIRC then this may also be the reason I won't do Combat Zones anymore

 

[da_wae]

This is the primary reason I don't PvP. It's not just an ED thing, other games like ESO require meta builds and top-tier armor, and for me personally, that's just too much work and not enough fun, and too "cookie cutter" for my tastes. I enjoy PvP where skill, not spreadsheets, wins the day. Thus I stick to games like Overwatch for PvP.

BTW, IIRC then this may also be the reason I won't do Combat Zones anymore

Same. If the PvP meta in a game is such that pure grind trumps skill, I usually refrain from participating.

Nowadays I spend most of my PvP energy in Overwatch or PUBG.

 

[dannysquid]

For me, the engineering update was the best update we had, because it forced me to try out bits of the game I'd previously been avoiding. I think if you're only really into one aspect of the game it can seem like needless hassle, but if you're like me and just wandering around trying different things it gives you some long-term goals. Without a big story, ELITE will always struggle to give you meaningful long-term goals.

Maybe I like it because I'm not in any real hurry to do things?

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

I think I'd say I have enjoyed engineering my ships. Of course it's tremendously difficult at times to find certain mats... I have experienced that frustration. Those are the times to take a break, or just do something else in game and take your mind off the engineering. It really is only a grind if you've made your mind up to go all the way to G5 asap and get obsessive about it. It's very satisfying imo, to see how the changes one makes affect ship performance.

Actually I can still remember how atmospheric and interesting I found it visiting the bases of these mysterious geeks for the first time. I still enjoy visiting their bases, looking at their greenhouses, imagining what it would be like to meet them personally, lol. I thought it rocked to have such a concept, even back in the RNG days. However I agree that it would be nice to have more colorful content for engineers, if it wasn't just a pic, some basic info, and that computer voice they all have when you land and take off.

 

[777Driver]

Same. If the PvP meta in a game is such that pure grind trumps skill, I usually refrain from participating.
.

I definitely wouldn't say pure grind trump skills, not in the slightest. In fact I used to have a lot of fun going up cmdrs that thought they where invincible because they had a heavily engineered ship. Heck I had a 2 day cat and mouse session with an Elite Engineered Python cmdr in deciat, I was in a freighter with hardly any engineering.. The Python Cmdr had to high wake on every encounter.

Take two equally skilled cmdrs in the same ship type, obviously the engineered ship will have the advantage, same can be said without engineering, A rated trumps E rated.

 

[da_wae]

I definitely wouldn't say pure grind trump skills, not in the slightest. In fact I used to have a lot of fun going up cmdrs that thought they where invisible because they had a heavily engineered ship. Heck I had a 2 day cat and mouse session with an Elite Engineered Python cmdr in deciat, I was in a freighter with hardly any engineering.. The Python Cmdr had to high wake on every encounter.

Take two equally skilled cmdrs in the same ship type, obviously the engineered ship will have the advantage, same can be said without engineering, A rated trumps E rated.

The difference in sheer power between a properly engineered PvP build, and it's unengineered "A-rated" version is astounding. You can put the best PvP pilot in the world in an A-rated FDL, vs a mediocre pilot in an uber-engineered PvP meta ship, and the A-rated FDL will lose 9.9/10 times.

Also, the amount of grind necessary to go from E-rated to A-rated is not even comparable to go from A-rated to "uber PvP meta engineered build"

 

[777Driver]

The difference in sheer power between a properly engineered PvP build, and it's unengineered "A-rated" version is astounding. You can put the best PvP pilot in the world in an A-rated FDL, vs a mediocre pilot in an uber-engineered PvP meta ship, and the A-rated FDL will lose 9.9/10 times.

Also, the amount of grind necessary to go from E-rated to A-rated is not even comparable to go from A-rated to "uber PvP meta engineered build"

I don't know, we'd have to put this to the test. I would often see cmdrs 'or true gankers' (not guys like Rinzler) that are engineered up to the eye balls yet can only be a threat to some newbie, situational awareness and flying skills are shocking.

I only have one Uber engineered ship that I hardly use (FDL) All my other combat ships used in open are mildly engineered, I have no fear at all if in a 1v1 situation, even in my freighters.

 

[Cmdr BrinBrown]

I do not need any of the engineered stuff, so not worth my time. I would buy the engineering effects for credits.
BB

 

[Camisade]

Serious question. I don't mean 'do you enjoy having an engineered ship' or 'do you enjoy trying out different engineering modifications', I mean do you actually enjoy the process, the things that you do to get to that engineered module?

I love engineering. Love the process of tuning a ship for a specific goal, whether PvE or PvP, or some non-combat purpose. And then I enjoy setting a different goal or optimization and seeing if I can engineer the ship better for that. It's actually one of the biggest attractions of Elite Dangerous for me.

I used to do it haphazardly, through trial and error, and the randomness of the engineering before all those wacky rolls was taken out was both a blessing and a curse. I'm not sure it's as fun now, but I still enjoy the min/max challenge.

Now I use Coriolis. And, admittedly the process is a little less fun than my old "experiment, fly with it, experiment some more" approach. But it's allowing me to optimize even more than I used to dream.

I just wish there were more things to engineer (SRV and its modules; SLF and its modules; the FSS, etc).

 

[da_wae]

I don't know, we'd have to put this to the test. I would often see cmdrs 'or true gankers' (not guys like Rinzler) that are engineered up to the eye balls yet can only be a threat to some newbie, situational awareness and flying skills are shocking.

I only have one Uber engineered ship that I hardly use (FDL) All my other combat ships used in open are mildly engineered, I have no fear at all if in a 1v1 situation, even in my freighters.

Not losing (high-waking), is very different from actually winning

 

[Stealthie]

I don't know, we'd have to put this to the test. I would often see cmdrs 'or true gankers' (not guys like Rinzler) that are engineered up to the eye balls yet can only be a threat to some newbie, situational awareness and flying skills are shocking.

Does that not kind of prove the point, though?

They used to gather around Obsidian Orbital (for some reason), in their engineered Cutters.
Couldn't hit the floor if they fell off a chair but, equally, it was almost impossible to put a dent in their shields.

Between evenly-matched CMDRs, in similarly-built ships, engineering is going to be the deciding factor.
And, with a decent pilot in an average ship and a rock-ape in an engineered ship, it's going to be the thing that prevents them eating a rebuy.

Course, it'd be hypocritical for me to moan about engineering too much 'cos the only things on my ships that aren't G5 engineered are either PPs or unfinished.
I just don't spend my time shooting at other players so I figure I'm not upsetting anybody with it.

Might be kinda nice if the PvP "community" got together and made a gentlemen's agreement to ignore engineering though.
Least, that way, we'd all (PvEers and PvPers) know who the murder-hobos were.

 

[B1rdy]

I love engineering. Love the process of tuning a ship for a specific goal, whether PvE or PvP, or some non-combat purpose.

Do you really love the process or rather the result?

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Not at all. Pointless grind wall that completely borked any semblance of balance this game had. Content for the sake of content, even if its repetitive, boring and needless...

This. Exactly my feelings.
Would prefer to have some actual content in the game. Like more stuff to discover.

 

[B1rdy]

Course, it'd be hypocritical for me to moan about engineering too much 'cos the only things on my ships that aren't G5 engineered are either PPs or unfinished.

Gain some perspective, here is an unmodifyed FAS build:
https://s.orbis.zone/1kly
Here is a modified build: https://s.orbis.zone/1klz
As you can see the engineered version has about twice as much hull and can shoot 50% longer than the vanilla ship. The projectile speed of the PAs is more than twice as high as well as the effective range. According to coriolis the modified ship will strip the armor of the vanilla ship in 41 seconds. The other way round, the vanilla ship needs 163 seconds to strip the armor of the modded FAS. The boost speed difference is more than 150m/s.
Overall the modded FAS is more than twice as good as the vanilla version.

Edit: If we change the engagement range from 1000m, which is still in the sweet spot for the vanilla ship, to 1500m, which is more realistic, the modified ship would be killed after more that 180 seconds, while it would still kill the other ship in 41 seconds.

 

[MJC]

To answer your question firstly: NO !

Here is my report from last 2 weeks. I am a semi-retired PvP-er. Returned to ED after a 9 month break. So all my grade 5 pp, distro, shields, hull r/f, armour needed to be redone completely due to secondary experimental effects being added. This meant that most of my old top grade 5 stuff was no longer top. Bit like in WoW when a blue or purple item you worked your socks off to get suddenly gets beaten by a green item in the patch.

So here it goes.

I farmed mats, got everything apart from Pharma Isolators looked for days no luck. In the end I had to trade for them at extortionate rates. Only 1 or 2 low pouplation Outbreak systems due to recent bgs reset.

Stripped all my ships of armour, thrusters, power distributors, shields etc... and went to repective engineers to mod them for my iCourier, DBS and Cobra (I only fly small ships).

And here is the worst part:

1) You need to have the actual ship so you can mod the module such as armour or thruster. So Imagine I have jumped in my asp to Maia transfered all the thrusters there. Endured the "immersion" waiting time, imposed on us by the democratic forum proces, only to find out that I need to go and buy a small ship in order to fit the thrusters to mod them. Of course engineers dont have shipyards. So jump to system nearby. Leave asp. Buy new ship. Jump back to Palin. Mod. Jump back to asp. Go another system. Buy Cobra jump back. Mod...
WHY IS THERE NO SHIPYARD AT ENGINEERS ???
WHY CANT MODULES BE MODDED WITHOUT THE SHIPS ???

2) Running out of mats for experimental. Ok I used ED engineer. I counted. I calculated. I used a spreadsheet. And I clicked on wrong experimental effect. Used up all the mats. I am in Maia... I howled like a wounded wolf... My mates on discord thaught I have gone insane. Well, I have, because the nearest material trader was 250ly away.
WHY IS THERE NO MATERIAL TRADER AT ENGINEEERS???

This was Palin, things got even worse at Selene Jean. I had to bring each ship from nearby station, or nearby system, apply armour then mod. Jump , buy, sell, travel, scream... I sincerely hope that Palin gets abducted by thargoids (and gets a thorough examination) and Selene Jean... (I wont even go there as I dont think the mods would like what I have in store for her

So 2 weeks later I am "ALMOST" finished and getting close to doing actual PvP. However I am starting to loose interest as the grind is insane.

Can I expect this time next year a "tertiary" experimental effect on the modules which would mean this process needs to be repeated ?

Solution:
1. MATERIAL TRADERS AND SHIPYARD AT EACH ENGINEER ! Bit like doctors surgeries having a pharmacy attached to them or shopping malls having cash machines...
2. MODULES CAN BE MODDED WITHOUT SHIP ! Why does Palin need my ship when I already transfered the thrusters to him.
3. LARGER SHIPS TO BE ABLE TO TRANSPORT MODULES FROM SMALLER SHIPS! So put 3-4 thrusters, distributors, shields in the cargo hold of you Anaconda or Asp and bring them all to Palin so you dont have to endure "immersive" transfer.

TLDNR. Current lobotomised engineering can be improved by having a shipyard, material trader at each engineer or the ability to mod modules without the ship.

 

[Stigbob]

ASTOUNDING LEVELS OF SELF INFLICTED GRIND

Well thats your problem right there.

 

[zebcarter]

Whether or not it's the "best" way of doing things is debatable but it's undeniable that going to Isinor, Dav's Hope, The crashed Annie's or similar sites and re-logging time after time is pretty-much the textbook definition of "grind".

Obviously I disagree with you. It's the quickest way to gather materials and then the fun begins by engineering your ships. Grinding for me are repetitive, ineffective tasks. And what I suggested is highly effective. Contrary to e.g. surface mining

 

[NeilF]

Engineering was one of the reasons I left ED (at the time).

It seemed to be contrived busy work simply to ramp up ship stats. As if FD were desperately thinking of way to keep players occupied by the simplest means possible. ie: Development effort going into trying to give players reasons to invest hours and hours doing the same existing simplistic gameplay but now to earn ship upgrades.

I also didn't like the needless unbalancing paper-scissors-stone-spock-lizard combat that came out of it. ie: If ship A has magic attack spell X, then unless ship B has magic defense spell Y, ship B may as well just leave...

I was doing engineering one day, when the game literally began to break for me. I just couldn't carry on doing the same old gameplay that had literally been in the game for year(s), simply to earn 2x unbalanced pewpews...

I've not Engineered since, and certainly not with Engineers V2...

While I like some of the outcomes for non-combat related aspects, the needless busy work feel combined with with unbalancing issues of it means the very thought of having to go about Engineering repels me

eg: If I wanted to G5 an FSD for a new ship, even of a size I already have, I just couldn't face it. Why can't I simply duplicate/clone that FSD I've already G5'd? But instead the game basically forces me to swap my existing one needlessly back and forth between ships, or go through the busy work to create another. Why? For what gain? Pointless unchallenging busy work!

 

[through the hole backwards]

Love it , adds gameplay , ramps up the difficulty, gives an engineered ship an edge. Mat gathering can get tedious at times , i just go and do something else for a bit and treat engineering a ship as a medium term project. I have heard of people quitting the game because of it , i don't get that, silly thing to do , why keep on doing something you don't like doing when there are so many other aspects to the game, like mining for instance.

 

[Urbanski101]

I like the results but hate the process.

For me it lacks any semblance of fun, skill, exclusivity or sense of achievement...it's just a painful collection process, then a painful unlocking process, then a painful travelling process, then a painful pinning process, then spamming the same button over and over until you have maxed out the module or run out of mats...rinse, repeat.

It is a truly awful implementation of crafting, possibly the worst I've experienced...and it's a lot better than it was...which is why i barely touched it before 3.0

It's actually put me off buying new ships because the thought of engineered the damn thing is too horrific, I've engineered most of the ships I use to a point I'm happy with and left it there.... never to be revisited