Does Frontier think Horizons' UI is bad?

You could say I'm an old dog, haven't played any video games since the Atari/Commodore64 era, yep skipped it all until ED. Never played nintendo, sony play station, pc's, none of it, but just recently got myself an Xbox and I'm loving Horizons. Well, except for the combat part, I'm not into the game to shoot at or be shot at, but love the trading, mining, exploring, and passenger missions.

I've only been playing ED for about a month now, and as ALL DEVELOPERS DO just when I'm getting the menus figured out they want to change it all! I hate my cell phone, my email, my computers, all of them for this very reason! I don't mind if you add some functions to a given menu, or move ONE THING to a more convenient place, or improve say the search function in the Galaxy Map (what Frontier?) or maybe add a docking request button on one of the main screens instead of it being buried in the panel.

PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE MENUS IN HORIZONS! I can guarantee you I will lose all interest in the game if I have re-learn how to do basic things.

Feel free to change it up all you want in Odyssey, but please just leave Horizons alone.
 
The big underlying question is "What are their objectives for the UI" that led them to change the existing UI and deliver what we have in Odyssey? I mean, the outcome of what they have delivered should align with their objectives for the UI and therefore either of two things have happened: [1] What they have developed in Odyssey UI does not deliver on their objectives; or [2] Our objectives don't align with theirs. The other alternative that they just made changes for the sake of it is unthinkable for a company of this size.

Communicating their objectives should be part of their new communication strategy, so we can at least hold what they deliver accountable to these, regardless of whether their objectives align to ours or not.
 
I picked up on the lead community manager saying that the UI changes were made with new players in mind, and that they need something that will service both veterans and those new players. This to me implies that Frontier thinks the Horizons UI is bad for new players. I find this kinda baffling, because all-in-all I think the Horizons UI is one of the best game UIs I've encountered. If you go back to my early days of playing on PS4, you'll see even then as a new player I had great praise for the UI. Of course my opinion may be influenced being a console / game controller player (even on PC I use a controller), but I've also used the UI with K&M and found it pretty good.

That's not to say there aren't some bugs with the UI, along with some silly decisions (like burying the frequently used docking request feature), and the way fleet carriers are represented in the system map is an abomination, but the ship and station menus, along with the galaxy and system maps, are great IMO in Horizons. In fact, the reason I was inspired to post this new thread is that I've been playing X4 Foundations exclusively since I decided to pass on Odyssey, and holy cow is that an obtuse UI! I feel like it's always fighting me, like a bad dog always pulling against the leash in the wrong direction instead of walking beside me. I personally think X4 does a lot of things better than ED, but ED Horizons blows X4 out of the water when it comes to the user interface (pre-Fleet Carriers).

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So why change the user interface so radically in Odyssey? Is this change for change sake, or does Frontier really believe that kids won't be able to play Elite unless they incorporate a cellphone UI in the game? Do they really look at Horizons UI and think, "New players will never figure this out this old UI - we need to completely change it!" Is this some sort of "Okay Boomer" moment inside Frontier where the new young designers look at the old, established work and feel the need to replace it because a stereotypical "Old is bad!" mentality? I'm just baffled that Frontier felt the need to change what was one of the best game UIs I've personally experienced (bugs and a couple QoL issues notwithstanding) and so dramatically rewrite it so that new players would find Odyssey engaging... Kinda reminds me of this old but apt meme (except that the new UI is nowhere near as pretty as the girl in red):

iu


ps - Frontier, if you don't like the Horizons UI anymore, please consider donating it to X4 Foundations, because that game desperately needs a UI as good as Horizons!
Golden rule of development - don't fix things that aren't broken, you are only wasting your time.

So much trouble they got over UI changes, both from players dislike and broken, unfinished implementation. And all of this for what? Massive massive waste of time. Should have developed UI for Ship Interior gameplay instead.
 
i Don’t mind changes, but they should be quality of life changes to make them easier to use and organize your stuff.

UI’s are important in any software to be functional and intuitive to use, a bad UI can chase users away.
 
Yeh...I'm one of those that don't like change, I'll admit. Give me the OG UI. :D
Anybody who think replacing a text based UI by an icon based one, is not someone who believe change is a good thing.

And you know the funny thing ? You'll have to get prepared for that one. Apparently, they did they changed it because the previous UI was "confusing" for new player. Because apparently, a weird 3 yin symbol thing turning in circle, the weird looking atom, you know the 3 koi carps swimming in circle ? Anyway, that's easier for a new player than a "realistic" button. Also, as you can see, easier to explain.

Yeah icons are pretty but terrible to use. Especially when you have that much. Text is text, you can read, it works.
 
Anybody who think replacing a text based UI by an icon based one, is not someone who believe change is a good thing.

And you know the funny thing ? You'll have to get prepared for that one. Apparently, they did they changed it because the previous UI was "confusing" for new player. Because apparently, a weird 3 yin symbol thing turning in circle, the weird looking atom, you know the 3 koi carps swimming in circle ? Anyway, that's easier for a new player than a "realistic" button. Also, as you can see, easier to explain.

Yeah icons are pretty but terrible to use. Especially when you have that much. Text is text, you can read, it works.
Funnily enough, the original 1.0 UI was the most intuitive part and easy to get used to as a new player. Allowed me to spend more time getting my speed docking game on...after crashing into just about every surface of the station :D
 
Funnily enough, the original 1.0 UI was the most intuitive part and easy to get used to as a new player. Allowed me to spend more time getting my speed docking game on...after crashing into just about every surface of the station :D
I started with Horizon, and didn't have issue. Sure, I didn't know what half the map UI meant, but I just ignored it until I knew. At least, I knew what it was, instead of having weird icons.
I struggle more with the map now with experience, than I did then when I started.
 
I think Frontier already recognized that the outfitting UI has "issues" as I have read in some dev-response somewhere across the board.

Admitted, I liked the fresh feel of the new UI first, but the longer I look at it, the more it feels all a bit to much. To many icons, to big buttons, to long latency...
The old UI really blended in well with the game and therefore felt immersive. The new UI in some places feels more like a game-interface patched over a space-ship interface - it's a bit to much overlay and not so much integrated functionality. Also I don't know who thought those "slide-in text-boxes" with useless confirmation messages would be a necessary thing to have (I think they call them toast-messages internally)? They remind me very much of annoying ad-popups and smartfone slide-shows. Not really what I expect my space-ship UI to do.

The one thing I really like is the new mission-browser. For my playstyle it's a qualitiy of life improvement that the UI now has the ability to show all missions, regardless of faction-affilation, so I can see all offers at one glance. Also it's a QOL feature in my book that transport missions are grouped for destination. Also it has a quite extensive filter-mechanic. Data-Filters are a good thing.
 
I think Frontier already recognized that the outfitting UI has "issues" as I have read in some dev-response somewhere across the board.

Admitted, I liked the fresh feel of the new UI first, but the longer I look at it, the more it feels all a bit to much. To many icons, to big buttons, to long latency...
The old UI really blended in well with the game and therefore felt immersive. The new UI in some places feels more like a game-interface patched over a space-ship interface - it's a bit to much overlay and not so much integrated functionality. Also I don't know who thought those "slide-in text-boxes" with useless confirmation messages would be a necessary thing to have (I think they call them toast-messages internally)? They remind me very much of annoying ad-popups and smartfone slide-shows. Not really what I expect my space-ship UI to do.

The one thing I really like is the new mission-browser. For my playstyle it's a qualitiy of life improvement that the UI now has the ability to show all missions, regardless of faction-affilation, so I can see all offers at one glance. Also it's a QOL feature in my book that transport missions are grouped for destination. Also it has a quite extensive filter-mechanic. Data-Filters are a good thing.
You make a really good point. The old UI felt like something that would have been developed in the Universe of Elite.

This new thing, which I'm honestly okay with, feels like a current day console game UI. No offense to console players.
 
To go into more detail with system and galaxy map as examples:

I think how they did the system-map is done really well. Buttons are well structured, information is accessible - even the orrery seems to have gotten littel improvements with some planets color-coded and the system better fitted into the screen. Also the "hold key to plot" function is nice and works well.

In the Glaxy-Map it's similar and I basically like it - but it's just a bit to much, with the buttons left and right, the search bar on top and the navigation bar below - it's all a bit overcrowded with overlays. The search-bar could be behind another icon maybe and the navigation bar a littel bit more unobstrusive it could look better.

With the exception of the really messy outifitting screen (totally missing descriptions of military compartments, unintuitive nesting) there are more pressing issues to resolve imho, like most of Horizons Vista POI's baked to flat terrain with the new planet generation.
 
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When/if EDH gets EDO'd, I'm out. Flying spaceships isn't important enough for me to slog through that.

I've accepted my time with ED/FD is likely down to some handful of months.

I can understand anyone who isn't obsessed with the game right now. Unfortunately, I don't have that option to just leave, I would keep coming back anyway. So I don't even start with that nonsense and just stay. 🥴
 
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