Don't bring the content with DLC's

Hey,

it would be kind of bad if you deliver us a basic base game and get a bit more and more content with several dlc's (which work similar to micro transactions). It's not much time left to Q4! Got no idea how to get all the content done til then. There are scenarios, many flatrides, coasters and scenery, management system, ugc (maybe), sharing functions with blueprints and new themes left.

Somebody told me that elite dangerous did something similar. Releasing many DLC's ( in a short amount of time ) which have a small amount of content.

I think that nobody would care if you'll wait a bit longer than Q4 [yesnod]
 

Vampiro

Moderator
Hey,

it would be kind of bad if you deliver us a basic base game and get a bit more and more content with several dlc's (which work similar to micro transactions). It's not much time left to Q4! Got no idea how to get all the content done til then. There are scenarios, many flatrides, coasters and scenery, management system, ugc (maybe), sharing functions with blueprints and new themes left.

Somebody told me that elite dangerous did something similar. Releasing many DLC's ( in a short amount of time ) which have a small amount of content.

I think that nobody would care if you'll wait a bit longer than Q4 [yesnod]
I agree and disagree here...

I agree with the fact that the game should deliver a complete game, but what makes you doubt this won't be the case?
The game is still in Alpha and im pretty sure they have quite some finished content (near) ready that they haven't released yet, most probably because they want feedback on the larger features like path making, terrain tool, coaster editor, etc etc.

I think we get a lot more content during the final stages of the game or upon release. Which will make this game a complete game. (Yes, in Frontier i trust ;) )

I disagree however on DLC, im all up dor DLC wheather in add-on versions or small DLC packages. I cant get enough content for a good game. Ofcourse the word "good" is the keyword here. If the final game is a dissapointment in won't buy DLC, but up untill now the game seems to be awesome. And if the final game will be of the same quality i won't mind spending more money on DLC.
 
the game isnt even released yet... with UGC and Blueprints were going to have a TON of content. Im sure any add-ons, dlc, or expansions will be feature rich
 
Indeed

DLCs ​​are the cancer of this industry !!!
The only economic model that is fair play for the developer AND for the players, is the principle of "expansion packs".

The content should be free (called "free updates" by honest studios), added regularly by the developpers (to revive the hype, the sales, and do some advertising), and to be open to the "content creators" (UGC). The only thing that should be paid is : the game itself, and the "expansions packs" containing new game mechanics, new gameplay elements. (like "Soaked" and "Wild" at the RCT3 time), and "derivatives products". And if they can not win enough money by selling the game, the expansion packs, and the derivatives, then ... That means that the game is really bad.

If they go down the road of "DLC" AND/OR "CashShop", I would leave the ship, and use other methods than using my credit card to access the content.
But I'm sure they have honor and respect for the players (and, incidentally, for the image of their company too)
 
If they go down the road of "DLC" AND/OR "CashShop", I would leave the ship, and use other methods than using my credit card to access the content.
Isn't it a little early for threatening to illegally download any additional content produced by Frontier? No need for it in my opinion and just a bit disrespectful given there's been no indication whatsoever that's how they plan to do things. And OP, you're making out as if anything that hasn't been shown yet hasn't been started on. I don't think some realise how much progress they have actually made so far basing it what has only been revealed publicly.
 
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Vampiro

Moderator
Indeed

DLCs ​​are the cancer of this industry !!!
The only economic model that is fair play for the developer AND for the players, is the principle of "expansion packs".

The content should be free (called "free updates" by honest studios), added regularly by the developpers (to revive the hype, the sales, and do some advertising), and to be open to the "content creators" (UGC). The only thing that should be paid is : the game itself, and the "expansions packs" containing new game mechanics, new gameplay elements. (like "Soaked" and "Wild" at the RCT3 time), and "derivatives products". And if they can not win enough money by selling the game, the expansion packs, and the derivatives, then ... That means that the game is really bad.

If they go down the road of "DLC" AND/OR "CashShop", I would leave the ship, and use other methods than using my credit card to access the content.
But I'm sure they have honor and respect for the players (and, incidentally, for the image of their company too)
As always, you have a strong opinion [praise]

I hardly dare to ask, but doesn't price play a key role in this as well?
I agree with the fact that expantions should also add gameplay features, but when it comes to small DLC i think the price is important as well.

If i pay 30 Euro for a complete expantion pack and break it down into it's contents it might be 15 euro for gameplay, 15 Euro for additional items/rides/coasters/etc.
Thats why i would also gladly pay 3 or 4 Euro for a flatride pack containing a few flatrides. Because in essense the costs are the same its just smaller packages. But once again, i agree on the gameplay updates.

(Having said all of this, if the game is good enough i will probably buy everything regardless of the price... once i love a game i have to have ALL of it [mouth shut] )
 
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I would be pretty disappointed if there's loads of small DLC and microtransactions etc. I don't mind paying good money for large expansion packs and content packs, but count me out of microtransactions
 
Cash shop is a nono. But I Love Expensions. Rct3, city skyline style.

They could always do like the sims 4.

30$ Planet Zoo, Planet Water, Planet Resort (have 2 pirate sized sets, rides and features)
10$ Holidays pack, Nature pack, Restaurant pack, Store pack, Future Ride pack, Broadwalk pack (had 1 sets and few feature)
 

Harbinger

Moderator
Somebody told me that elite dangerous did something similar. Releasing many DLC's ( in a short amount of time ) which have a small amount of content.
Somebody is wrong or completely misunderstands the funding model of Elite Dangerous necessitating micro transactions.

Micro transactions on Elite Dangerous (paint packs and bobble heads*) are purely cosmetic in nature and do not affect gameplay but they are there for a reason. Elite Dangerous is a wholly online game and whilst it utilises P2P to minimise server overheads. Dav Stott (Frontier's Senior Server Developer) has stated recently Elite Dangerous is rocking between 80 and 170 servers at any one time depending on the level of demand from it's player base. These optional micro transactions help to offset the costs for this necessary server infrastructure and prevent the need for a monthly subscription from the player base.

Elite Dangerous released it's first expansion pack an entire year after the game went gold and Frontier still support the 1.x version with updates today with the 1.6 patch being released about a month ago (along with 2.1) bringing lots of Quality of Life improvements for those who haven't paid a further penny/cent since buying the game so whilst some people are indeed buying micro transactions there is no requirement to do so.

As for Planet Coaster they're not making a wholly online game here, they're making an offline game which may have a small amount of online functionality (sharing blueprints etc.).

I am no more knowledgeable than any of you on how Frontier intend to monetise this game post release but due to the differences I've outlined above I highly doubt there is any intention to nickel & dime anyone with micro transactions because this game doesn't have the additional costs that Elite Dangerous has built into it's game design.

* The original plan was to have a cash shop for purchasing in game credits but this didn't go down well with backers due to it being a gateway to pay to win. Cosmetic micro transactions was a compromise that everyone agreed upon well ahead of the game release.
 
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Isn't it a little early for threatening to illegally download any additional content produced by Frontier? No need for it in my opinion and just a bit disrespectful given there's been no indication whatsoever that's how they plan to do things. And OP, you're making out as if anything that hasn't been shown yet hasn't been started on. I don't think some realise how much progress they have actually made so far basing it what has only been revealed publicly.
Wow ! I do not threaten, I just warn.
It's not negative at all. To be honest, it's the opposite. Like I said : "I'm sure they have honor and respect for the players"

I trust Frontier.

This message is just to say that my confidence is, let's say : "limited", because of all the dishonest maneuvers of other studios during the last years, and I would not hesitate to use weapons that are mine, if they decide to declare war on players, in favor of a short term strategy that only benefits the shareholders.

And as the expression says : Prevention is better than cure.

As always, you have a strong opinion [praise]

I hardly dare to ask, but doesn't price play a key role in this as well? [...]
Nope.
It's not about the price.

1) it's about the work/price ratio.
I'm ready to pay the price of the game a second time for an expansion pack, but only if it's fair.

If they sell me a full game for 30€ they are working for, say, two/three years. It's fair.
If they try to sell me content for 2,50 €, usually in the "DLC" format, conceived in a week. It's not fair. Even if it's "cheap" they take me for a fool.
So, yeah, I'm okay they double/triple their profits by producing one expansion every year, but it's enough !!!

So, no, it's not about the price.
It's not because it's cheap that it's better.

2) it's about content VS new gameplay

Like I said :

The content should be free (called "free updates" by honest studios), added regularly by the developpers (to revive the hype, the sales, and do some advertising), and to be open to the "content creators" (UGC). The only thing that should be paid is : the game itself, and the "expansions packs" containing new game mechanics, new gameplay elements. (like "Soaked" and "Wild" at the RCT3 time), and "derivatives products". And if they can not win enough money by selling the game, the expansion packs, and the derivatives, then ... That means that the game is really bad.
 
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I absolutely support paying for expansion packs. If there's a good amount of content in them, I'd be more than happy to keep buying them. Soaked and Wild were brilliant value and added so much to RCT3.
I will admit that I am a bit concerned that Frontier will go down the Elite Dangerous route. There's many tiny packs containing just a small amount of reskins for a single ship for £5 a pop. Incredibly poor value for money. And if you want to get everything, you'll be spending a fortune.
And this could be a real issue for PC. As they're banging on about sharing creations between players and blueprints, how will this work if everyone's got a different selection of these micro transaction packs?
Let's hope they don't go down this road.
 

Vampiro

Moderator
Nope.
It's not about the price.

1) it's about the work/price ratio.
I'm ready to pay the price of the game a second time for an expansion pack, but only if it's fair.

If they sell me a full game for 30€ they are working for, say, two/three years. It's fair.
If they try to sell me content for 2,50 €, usually in the "DLC" format, conceived in a week. It's not fair. Even if it's "cheap" they take me for a fool.
So, yeah, I'm okay they double/triple their profits by producing one expansion every year, but it's enough !!!

So, no, it's not about the price.
It's not because it's cheap that it's better.

2) it's about content VS new gameplay
Maybe my question was wrong, as that was basically what i ment [happy] (The work/price ratio)

Thats why im willing to pay 3- 5 Euro for a package of multiple Flatrides because when you breakdown the price for an entire expantion pack the price is reasonable.

So basically i agree with you as -most of the time- single DLC are quite expensive when you compare what you paid for the full game. Needless to say, im against that as well.

For example :
I hated how Street Fighter 4 had a large number of DLC packs. You pay like 40 Euro for the complete game, and then they charge another 3 or 4 Euro's for like 4 or 6 Attire's (Which is just another skin). Thats totally unbalanced since it add's -nothing- to gameplay, nothing in characters. And was very easy to create.
 
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[...] Thats why im willing to pay 3- 5 Euro for a package of multiple Flatrides because when you breakdown the price for an entire expantion pack the price is reasonable. [...]
I do not agree.

Once a studio begins to integrate micro transactions in a game, it's the beginning of the end !!!
Certainly because of human nature, but whatever ... "DLC", "microtransactions" and "cash shop" (and their synonyms) should never be pronounced by Frontier, in the interest of all the players and the company's brand image.
 
the game isnt even released yet... with UGC and Blueprints were going to have a TON of content. Im sure any add-ons, dlc, or expansions will be feature rich
It is not realeased yet. But there's not too much time left!

And compare the amount of scenery, coaster / flatride - types, scenery, scenarios aso. from older rct's to this alpha version! How could they do this in just 3-5 months?

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Cash shop is a nono. But I Love Expensions. Rct3, city skyline style.

They could always do like the sims 4.

30$ Planet Zoo, Planet Water, Planet Resort (have 2 pirate sized sets, rides and features)
10$ Holidays pack, Nature pack, Restaurant pack, Store pack, Future Ride pack, Broadwalk pack (had 1 sets and few feature)
Soaked and Wild did it right!
 

Vampiro

Moderator
I do not agree.

Once a studio begins to integrate micro transactions in a game, it's the beginning of the end !!!
Certainly because of human nature, but whatever ... "DLC", "microtransactions" and "cash shop" (and their synonyms) should never be pronounced by Frontier, in the interest of all the players and the company's brand image.
Ok, have to respect that opinion.

Maybe im too easy going with this, once i love a game i dont really mind how i get content, as long as im able to have it. The more the better...
Preferrably in large expantion packs, but even if it's the less preferred way i know i can't resist....

(Altough i really hope for some expantion packs as the wishlist is long enough to make a few decent ones)
 
In the broadest sense are indeed the Early Bird version and the VIP tickets already DLC. We've all paid a bit more to the game download earlier or to get the little extra to create our own character later in the game.
 
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Spanky has it right, alpha = DLC thats how gaming goes now, maybe not for the best but we can hope Frontier has big plans for future content. I personally think a boxed version for store shelves is vital for sales, especially for people who buy games as a gift (the game is planned for a holiday release), but the full game is advertised as a "Download"

As for add-ons, this game would not be good for "micro-transactions". Hopefully, if Frontier releases any sort of add-ons, hopefully they will be larger ones like the expansions for RCT3. Add-ons will happen, regardless of being DLC or not because the full game already is DLC. What we have to concern ourselves with is a variety of factors such as: 1] Price of each Add-on, 2] Content within the Add-on, and 3] how will this effect the online community?

With each new add-on, will that cause variations in version/compatibility with other players like it did in RCT3? We have to then take into account UGC, if I make a custom scenery object, will you be able to load and view my park properly? Hopefully Frontier is working on this [up]

As for Planet Coaster they're not making a wholly online game here, they're making an offline game which may have a small amount of online functionality (sharing blueprints etc.)
in one of the Live Streams they mentioned possible multiplayer features in the works (but I guess thats hush hush for some reason still, don't know why though) [cool] I really hope for multiplayer first person!
 
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I fully agree on and sympathize with the expansion pack modell Angelis talks about. Soak and Wild to RCT3 were perfect concepts to expand the theme park experience together with both new game elements and content.

I don't want Planet Coaster to follow the dark path The Sims did with Sims3 and Sims4 with all this mini DLC sales. I gave up after collecting all expansions to sims1 and sims2. You just feel overwhelmed, overrun and incomplete to try to collect all content when you have to buy all stuff one by one. As if you didn't already buy them one by one IN GAME already. It is a simulation/building game after all.[where is it]
And it is not like you have to follow this modell as if it is the way it works now. Consider that City Skylines have full expansion packs as well in modern times. [happy]
 
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