Don’t Nerf Mining, Buff Everything Else

[Rat Catcher]

You make pitiful amounts of credits in combat,exploration,smugleing and power play . Its to the point that it’s a net loss to partake in these fun activities. Even befor Borann this was a problem . Pls fdev , ild love to have fun doing something else instead of mining ⛏ ⛏ ⛏ ⛏

Pitiful amounts in exploring? Get outside of the bubble then! I've made (in my main account) over 3 billion exploring... Plenty of credits Bounty Hunting NPC's and Smuggling... About the only combat activity (barring PvP) that approached a net loss is Thargoid hunting, but with a little evasion skill (and Decontamination Limpets!) can still earn more than it costs in repairs...
Just to tick you off, I have plenty of fun and earn sufficient credits to be quite 'comfortable' without persistent mining, I'll only mine for an hour when I 'need' a quick credit boost. Such is life

 

[Colonel Kenney]

I just want to make good money. Period. Whatever I do. The money sink now is for me to fill my carrier with ships. Mining ships, exploration ships, combat ships all pre-fitted with roles I want so when I jump my carrier I can do whatever I want. To get to that point unless you are autistic, you'll have to earn the money for it as time goes by. It needs to be at a rate that makes progress every day. If it takes me a month to earn enough to kit 1 ship that is too slow.

Then there are actual goals to the game other than having enough money to buy something.

What are the current goals?

1) manipulate BGS
2) achieve elite x 3
3) Poweplay is useless because you can't really impact or destroy an other faction its an endless game that doesnt impact the actual galaxy in any way
4) defeat some thargoids
5) explore and be the first to find something
6) Getting permits
7) Getting rank to buy more ships

Other than mini goals you can set for yourself ... there really is no goal other than those.

I suggest making some more goals for people to achieve. Example. If you reach 1 trillion credits you can buy your own system and have a station and faction placed there. You can't control it but its still something.

I personally would love to be able to buy and name a system. Well colonize a system.

400 billion credits - name a station
100 billion credits - name a planet

Just something .. some point to throw the credits at. Credits are the meta to achieve our goals.

Our goal was to earn enough to get a FC now we have it the next goal is to fill it and make more credits.... for what?

 

[Rat Catcher]

Our goal was to earn enough to get a FC now we have it the next goal is to fill it and make more credits.... for what?

For the 'personal' rebuy in Odyssey FPS? Those private hospital fees can be crippling...

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I just want to make good money. Period. Whatever I do. The money sink now is for me to fill my carrier with ships. Mining ships, exploration ships, combat ships all pre-fitted with roles I want so when I jump my carrier I can do whatever I want. To get to that point unless you are autistic, you'll have to earn the money for it as time goes by. It needs to be at a rate that makes progress every day. If it takes me a month to earn enough to kit 1 ship that is too slow.

Then there are actual goals to the game other than having enough money to buy something.

What are the current goals?

1) manipulate BGS
2) achieve elite x 3
3) Poweplay is useless because you can't really impact or destroy an other faction its an endless game that doesnt impact the actual galaxy in any way
4) defeat some thargoids
5) explore and be the first to find something
6) Getting permits
7) Getting rank to buy more ships

Other than mini goals you can set for yourself ... there really is no goal other than those.

I suggest making some more goals for people to achieve. Example. If you reach 1 trillion credits you can buy your own system and have a station and faction placed there. You can't control it but its still something.

I personally would love to be able to buy and name a system. Well colonize a system.

400 billion credits - name a station
100 billion credits - name a planet

Just something .. some point to throw the credits at. Credits are the meta to achieve our goals.

Our goal was to earn enough to get a FC now we have it the next goal is to fill it and make more credits.... for what?

I'm sorry to say this, and don't take it personal, but I'm utterly delighted that you're not in charge of game design at Frontier.

As for the last bit in bold - I stopped grinding credits as soon as I had enough for the FC plus modules, some spare cash for upkeep and further ships. 6.8bn in total. I really don't understand why one would want to grind on. But don't let me stop you!

 

[Darkfyre99]

What's wrong with something being a reward for dedicated players?

Few people get it , from a developer stand point it’s just a waste, we spend money comeing if 3 people will be able to afford it

It’s only a waste if it’s only single players who benefit from it.

Compare how the exploration community is using Fleet Carriers, compared to the typical bubble-based carrier. Out into the greater galaxy, scores of FCs are deploying to become hubs for exploration activity. Entire expeditions, consisting of dozens of prospectors, explorers, transporters, and miners and even support carriers, all dedicated to moving DSSA carriers to their long-term home.

Meanwhile in the Bubble, hundreds of fleet carriers, whose only purpose is to show off a player’s virtual wealth, are making system maps unusable, and clogging up nav panels... unless you filter them out. Filtering them out may make the Nav panel usable again, but it also ensures that the rare useful carrier gets filtered out as well.

Not that useful Bubble carriers are likely to be used to their full potential either. Why make the extreme effort of tracking one down to interact with, when NPC payouts are so out of whack?

 

[Maggie_Oz]

Compare how the exploration community is using Fleet Carriers, compared to the typical bubble-based carrier. Out into the greater galaxy, scores of FCs are deploying to become hubs for exploration activity. Entire expeditions, consisting of dozens of prospectors, explorers, transporters, and miners and even support carriers, all dedicated to moving DSSA carriers to their long-term home.

TBH I think this is their true purpose.
My hope is that in time as the novelty wears off the plethora of carriers we see at the moment will tail off.
I really think the buy in price and upkeep model were essential inclusions in Fleet Carriers for this act reason.

Imagine the Chaos if they were the proposed 1 billion and no upkeep?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

TBH I think this is their true purpose.
My hope is that in time as the novelty wears off the plethora of carriers we see at the moment will tail off.
I really think the buy in price and upkeep model were essential inclusions in Fleet Carriers for this act reason.

Imagine the Chaos if they were the proposed 1 billion and no upkeep?

This is likely true alas that is punishing those who didn't abuse every meta and exploit in the game for the last 6 years. FD are balancing the game around it.
Credits are so broken now perhaps with ED:O they should reset the whole economy but then the salt would be epic.(mostly from the exploiters and grinders).
I still think these ships should not have been purchasable but findable in game but needing stuff done to them to get them working with that way everyone has to work towards them and not just purchasable immedistely

 

[Maggie_Oz]

This is likely true alas that is punishing those who didn't abuse every meta and exploit in the game for the last 6 years.

I don't feel punished. Working towards a super expensive item in game is a great objective.
You'd value it more if it was only for a few and took months to years of work to get it, rather than an afternoon

but then the salt would be epic.

.... and?

I still think these ships should not have been purchasable but findable in game

I like that idea

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I just want to make good money. Period. Whatever I do. The money sink now is for me to fill my carrier with ships. Mining ships, exploration ships, combat ships all pre-fitted with roles I want so when I jump my carrier I can do whatever I want. To get to that point unless you are autistic, you'll have to earn the money for it as time goes by. It needs to be at a rate that makes progress every day. If it takes me a month to earn enough to kit 1 ship that is too slow.

Then there are actual goals to the game other than having enough money to buy something.

What are the current goals?

1) manipulate BGS
2) achieve elite x 3
3) Poweplay is useless because you can't really impact or destroy an other faction its an endless game that doesnt impact the actual galaxy in any way
4) defeat some thargoids
5) explore and be the first to find something
6) Getting permits
7) Getting rank to buy more ships

Other than mini goals you can set for yourself ... there really is no goal other than those.

I suggest making some more goals for people to achieve. Example. If you reach 1 trillion credits you can buy your own system and have a station and faction placed there. You can't control it but its still something.

I personally would love to be able to buy and name a system. Well colonize a system.

400 billion credits - name a station
100 billion credits - name a planet

Just something .. some point to throw the credits at. Credits are the meta to achieve our goals.

Our goal was to earn enough to get a FC now we have it the next goal is to fill it and make more credits.... for what?

Granting excessive leverage to those who grind the biowaste out of the game, using all temporary gold rushes available over those who play the game progressing through small-medium ships and just enjoying it - bad idea and hopefully never comes.

Surely the main goal of the game and gameplay is not having every player in the same LTD overlapping hotspots in their carriers, with their fleet of min-maxed ships. Have you tried roleplaying, supporting a faction, partake in community events, stuff like that?

 

[Darkfyre99]

TBH I think this is their true purpose.
My hope is that in time as the novelty wears off the plethora of carriers we see at the moment will tail off.
I really think the buy in price and upkeep model were essential inclusions in Fleet Carriers for this act reason.

Imagine the Chaos if they were the proposed 1 billion and no upkeep?

Unfortunately, I think that between Frontier:

• going full Monty Haul campaign, like a 12 year old game master trying to bribe her friends into liking her campaign
• inability to realize that managing an MMO is very different from making a single-player game
• appeasing single-player gamers (who aren't the same as solo MMO players) by drastically slashing carrier operating costs

what we're going to see, in the Bubble at least, is that while the novelty and use of carriers will drop off, the carriers themselves will remain. I've played several MMOs who made the mistake of allowing player-built structures in shared game space with little or no maintenance costs, and abandoned buildings dominated the landscape, their owners logging in just long frequently enough to refresh the despawn counter, so they wouldn't lose their building's place in the world.

This is why I think Fleet Carrier's will fail in creating a player-augmented economy in the Bubble. There's definitely opportunities for a Fleet Carrier to make a profit in the Bubble, despite Frontier's missteps on the game's economy, but in order for most these opportunities to work, players need to be willing to visit dozens of private or defunct Fleet Carriers to find one that's actually open for business. The money flows too freely, and has done so too long, and Fleet Carrier costs are too low, for the decommission mechanic to thin their numbers to the levels that it'll be fruitful to search for useful Fleet Carriers. There'll be too much noise, and too little signal.

Personally, when I finally saw the details of Fleet Carriers, I realized that the best way for my inevitable Fleet Carrier would be to sell services to explorers in a prime location. I did the research, ran the numbers, and realized that my plan was viable. Then over the course of the two betas, Frontier radically slashed operating costs, and had hard coded a Universal Cartographics cut to the carrier's owner well above what I had originally planned. I was actually looking forward to the eventual challenge of operating one without having to make my game miserable by grinding away at mining. Now? It'll be like shooting fish in a barrel. Well, at least I had the fun of creating my business plan in the first place.

 

[Old Duck]

Problem is you are only thinking of fleet carriers
The current earning rates in some professions is completely destroying 99% of progression.
Of course this has gone on for so long now maybe it's unfixable.
Personally I am over 2500 hrs in and deliberately never did silly OP earnings and just kept within what at the time I felt was sensible. This kept the sense of progression alive for the most part but means fleet carriers will be forever out of reach. (That said fleet carriers shouldn't be too cheap either I mean look at the size of them)

Amen brother! This is the story of my gaming life. And when I don't use these "get rich quick" non-immersive game loops, I'll get at least one nutjob saying, "You're an idiot who doesn't know how to play the game." No, I'm just an idiot who wants to play games for enjoyment and immersive progression, not grind-grind-grind-grind-endgame-over.

Having played three years and still nowhere near owning a FC (which I'd love to have), I do wish FCs were tied to something besides credits. You know, like making Elite, or Admiral / King . We don't "own" carriers anyway, so make it that Elite CMDRs are given command of a carrier because of our qualifications rather than our riches. At least this way we get to choose our grind, or better yet, earn rank just by having fun. (And IMO, it actually makes more sense that I'm in command of a carrier owned by a corporation / royal family, since even 5 billion credits is way too cheap for a MEGASHIP the size of a FC.)

If only Frontier would consult me about these things before releasing them