"Don't rush into an Anaconda, do Engineering first...."

[Rietz]

Elite forums seem to be real hostile toward new players for some reason.

Anyone who's seen posting criticism toward the amazing engineering system is either

A) A new players who knows nothing and whose opinion should not be taken serious.
B) An ex player wandering the forums like an undying ghost who burnt themselves out on the grind.
or C) A current player who will definitely soon become exhibit B by playing the game a different way.

And the rest of the population is expected to praise the system and how "acceptable" it is, along with their "unique" way of playing. And of course, those who refuse to accept their way are fated to become exhibit B one day.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

There have been many comments here and the reaction to them indifferent or worse, perhaps the best thing to do is let the 'new' player carry on grinding?

I've resigned to this, because many seem to be rather stubborn instead and ignore sound advice to make their life easier - I mean, there is grind in the game if you want stuff immediately, I've fallen into that trap myself a number of times, but I didn't come here to complain about it, because it's basically my own fault for making me suffer through it.

My alt account has made very little progress in terms of engineers, the only thing I've done is upgrade the FSD and thrusters on their Cobra 3 (multirole set up), and apart from the AX stuff I can do any task the game throws at me in it. It's quite enjoyable actually to play the game as a "space bum" without the feeling of having to make credits or gather mats, and because you don't fly an OP G5 murderboat, encounters with even Competent level NPCs can be dangerous - had to retreat from a FdL yesterday with 14% hull intact. Didn't complete the mission (Expert rank) but still had a jolly good time, arguably more so compared to steamrolling a High Intensity CZ in my Vette (that's also fun, but not exciting).

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Elite forums seem to be real hostile toward new players for some reason.

Anyone who's seen posting criticism toward the amazing engineering system is either

A) A new players who knows nothing and whose opinion should not be taken serious.
B) An ex player wandering the forums like an undying ghost who burnt themselves out on the grind.
or C) A current player who will definitely soon become exhibit B by playing the game a different way.

And the rest of the population is expected to praise the system and how "acceptable" it is, along with their "unique" way of playing. And of course, those who refuse to accept their way are fated to become exhibit B one day.

There's a newcomer section in this forum, it'd be wise to use it if you consider the quite useful responses in this thread 'hostile' and prefer to be wrapped in cotton wool. Consider this being the "Dangerous Discussion" (as cringe as that is in itself, I come from another forum where the level of moderation is nigh non-existent and the tone can be much rougher, so grew a very thick skin there as a result) forum means the majority are long term players who went through a much slower progression curve than those who can enjoy the current game and it's much improved balancing when it comes to engineering, credits and rank progression.

So those spoilt (relatively speaking) players coming in here and whinging about stuff without listening to the experienced players giving them sound advice to minimise the level of frustration that can come with grinding progress in this game is obviously not going down so well, quelle surprise.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I've been playing for about a month

I already know of at least 3 people who quit the game because they couldn't be bothered with learning how to do engineering in the past 4 weeks.

To me, engineering is just the soulless process of opening a spreadsheet, looks for the locations of the G5 materials, go grab them and visit the traders.

And the rest of the population is expected to praise the system and how "acceptable" it is, along with their "unique" way of playing

There is no 'solution' to be offered to one who has already decided the outcome.

Oddly, the forum is normally much kinder to 'new players', I wonder what has changed for you to feel so unwelcome?

 

[Rietz]

There's a newcomer section in this forum, it'd be wise to use it if you consider the quite useful responses in this thread 'hostile' and prefer to be wrapped in cotton wool. Consider this being the "Dangerous Discussion" (as cringe as that is in itself, I come from another forum where the level of moderation is nigh non-existent and the tone can be much rougher, so grew a very thick skin there as a result) forum means the majority are long term players who went through a much slower progression curve than those who can enjoy the current game and it's much improved balancing when it comes to engineering, credits and rank progression.

So those spoilt (relatively speaking) players coming in here and whinging about stuff without listening to the experienced players giving them sound advice to minimise the level of frustration that can come with grinding progress in this game is obviously not going down so well, quelle surprise.

I don't mean the people with actual useful responses. But responses such as "they don't know anything" or "they're spoilt" and calling their legitimate feedbacks as "whining" isn't that useful, if you ask me.

I keep seeing this "we went through much worse in the past" argument popping up in every thread when someone mention improvement for engineering system. And all I have to say is, people in ancient times went through much worse than we modern humans as well. But is it a legitimate excuse to stop improvement?

I'm sorry, but all I'm seeing here are people with 5, 10, or even more fully engineered ship with bins full of mats sitting here saying "oh it's not that bad, just take it slow". Sitting on top of the mountain talking down on those who're still climbing.

There is no 'solution' to be offered to one who has already decided the outcome.

Oddly, the forum is normally much kinder to 'new players', I wonder what has changed for you to feel so unwelcome?

There we go again, "you're a new player, you know nothing". There's your "useful responses" right there. See what I'm talking about?
And by about a month, well, yes, I've player for about a month. 648 hours and 33 minutes to be exact. That's about a month right?

 

[Rat Catcher]

I've player for about a month. 648 hours and 33 minutes to be exact.

... is that all?

Come back when you have hit 4,000+ hours and have played the game, rather than just scratched the surface of it...

You wonder why your reception here has been a little cool?

 

[zimms]

All I can say is:

Don't rush into Engineering, get a Fleet Carrier first.

 

[Rat Catcher]

All I can say is:

Don't rush into Engineering, get a Fleet Carrier first.

I only have 2 so far...

The other 2 accounts will get there eventually

 

[zimms]

I only have 2 so far...

The other 2 accounts will get there eventually

I assume those accounts don't have all Engineers at rank 5?

 

[Rietz]

... is that all?

Come back when you have hit 4,000+ hours and have played the game, rather than just scratched the surface of it...

You wonder why your reception here has been a little cool?

There we go. This is what I was talking about. These "useful responses" is the type that I can do without.
Imagine playing for more than 600 hours and some elitist come telling you about how he's played for 4k hours and you're just scratching the surface of the game. I'm sorry, but while the game is fun with lots of content, it's not that deep that require 4k hours lol.

 

[MishaTX]

Giving the game away for free is certainly a double edged sword as it attracts players who didn't read up at all on how the game works and whether they'll enjoy its particularities (not saying everything is perfect but I either arrange myself with it or I move on).

And then, approximately three hours later, they show up here complaining about the flavor of the free ice cream.

Elite forums seem to be real hostile toward new players for some reason.

Respectfully, that's nonsense on stilts.

There aren't very many fora for games on the Intertubez where so many people are more than willing to spend time helping out new players with the, frankly, at times incredibly confusing and complex "thing" that is E: D. And yes, it does have an insane learning curve at time. A cliff, to be exact, but with an overhang for added effect.

But there has never, ever in my experience since before the game was even officially released, been a shortage of people more than willing to dig in, explain things, post screenshots, spreadsheets, videos, flowcharts, you name it, in order to help new players climb that cliff because we were all, without exception, new at some point.

The problem is that sometimes, as is the case very much with this thread now that I've wasted my time wading through all of it, the "new frustrated player" isn't really interested in getting any sort of assistance, advice, encouragement or anything else of the sort, he or she just wants to be validated and be told that "yeah man, you're right, this is The Worst Game Ever, and if only FDev would sit down, zip up and let you tell them how it SHOULD be done, then everything would be infinitely better, never mind that it's been around for more than half a decade, which is not too shabby for a game that obviously is nowhere near your 'objective and universal' standards."

I started out with this thread wanting to do what I usually do, which is to hop in and help out with advice as much as I can but, thankfully, I decided to check the whole thread before doing so in case I'd just end up repeating what others had already offered.

You do you, OP. This game is horribly flawed, the design in atrocious, you could do it better with half your brain tied behind your back and anybody suggesting that there might be more than one way to play it is a condescending, insulting, white knighting prole.

KTHXBYE.

HTH.

HAND.

 

[Rat Catcher]

it's not that deep that require 4k hours lol.

Of course it isn't....

There we go. This is what I was talking about. "Useful responses" is the type that I can do without.

I'm quite good at the insulting game too, would you like to continue playing it?

Imagine playing for more than 600 hours...

I don't need to imagine that

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I think the major difference to the ED experience for new players is the amount of tat published on youtube et. al. telling people 'how to play'

Close. I think a huge part has also been frontier dumbing down everything so that the natural sink or swim stage with the game isn't there anymore. New players are padded into "well i made it this far, so whats next im so squishy duh im fresh and wanna consume".

To use an easy example, when it took months to get an anaconda, you didn't have to worry about engineering it did you? Even better, there was still tonnes of things you could do in the mean time so were well occupied. Then when you naturally hit engineering you were mature enough in the game to handle it.

Dont think frontier care really.

EDIT: What was there to do? Ship progression. The rate of credit pace meant you had to do ship progression out of boredom. But that turned out to be in a huge novelty in its own right and each ship could easily give you at least a week of new gameplay trying it out, learning a bit more about what the different outfitting choices actually do under the stick, the different weapon types etc. Was a really frothy experience of coming with an idea, trying stuff and enjoying the fruits of your experiments. As a noob you used to spend hours theorycrafting small improvements to you build based on what happened the night before and was bursting to have a go again. This is what you did when you couldnt just earn 300 million credits on the weekend and be finished to full. Truly were better days.

 

[Rat Catcher]

To use the dumbest example possible, when it took months to get an anaconda, you didn't have to worry about engineering did you? Even better, there was still tonnes of things you could do in the mean time so were well occupied. Then when you naturally hit engineering everything you were ready for it all.

That little snippet hits the nail on the head... Even arriving in the game a little over 3 years ago it took some time to earn enough to buy bigger, better ships (like the amazing Type 6!) and to 'A' rate the important bits.

No, I didn't start engineering for close to a year of playing, just before setting out for the Abyssal Plain if my memory serves me well

 

[TheChosen]

I've resigned to this, because many seem to be rather stubborn instead and ignore sound advice to make their life easier - I mean, there is grind in the game if you want stuff immediately, I've fallen into that trap myself a number of times, but I didn't come here to complain about it, because it's basically my own fault for making me suffer through it.

My alt account has made very little progress in terms of engineers, the only thing I've done is upgrade the FSD and thrusters on their Cobra 3 (multirole set up), and apart from the AX stuff I can do any task the game throws at me in it. It's quite enjoyable actually to play the game as a "space bum" without the feeling of having to make credits or gather mats, and because you don't fly an OP G5 murderboat, encounters with even Competent level NPCs can be dangerous - had to retreat from a FdL yesterday with 14% hull intact. Didn't complete the mission (Expert rank) but still had a jolly good time, arguably more so compared to steamrolling a High Intensity CZ in my Vette (that's also fun, but not exciting).

Exactly my thoughts. If you can't see the appeal of playing the game in a Cobra MK3 , it is unlikely you will love the game at the higher/engineered levels. The irony is that few dozen of hours having fun in the Cobra will likely unlock you few engineers / gain you lots of mats.. especially that you can easily put some collector probes in it.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I don't mean the people with actual useful responses. But responses such as "they don't know anything" or "they're spoilt" and calling their legitimate feedbacks as "whining" isn't that useful, if you ask me.

But they are spoilt (just as much as I am, the difference is they're not aware of it) because the game has come a long way since the early days. It's a fact, not an insult.

As for providing 'feedback', to me that tends to be connected to a certain expectation of change based on the feedback. We're not in the alpha/beta stage, and I don't see FDev suddenly re-designing a core game mechanic just because a bunch of players have a problem with how they employ said mechanics. So what's the point then of providing it? For the hundredth time in several years, and nothing changed? It's futile which is why most long term players (bar the few stubborn ones I touched on earlier) don't bother. I don't like many key aspects of GTA Online for example, but that doesn't make me go and start rambling about their P2W business model on their forums, because evidently they seem to do rather well with it and I'd just be wasting my time & energy.

I keep seeing this "we went through much worse in the past" argument popping up in every thread when someone mention improvement for engineering system. And all I have to say is, people in ancient times went through much worse than we modern humans as well. But is it a legitimate excuse to stop improvement?

Engineering was already overhauled - it used to be much, much worse in the past. I can't see it change any further, in fact FDev will introduce a separate engineering grind progression model for Odyssey, based on what they perceive the best way forward. I will then either take it or leave it; hoping that they will listen to my opinion to improve (which could well mean the opposite to other players) is a fool's game.

I'm sorry, but all I'm seeing here are people with 5, 10, or even more fully engineered ship with bins full of mats sitting here saying "oh it's not that bad, just take it slow". Sitting on top of the mountain talking down on those who're still climbing.

People spent years getting to that level, others spent much less time doing so but only because they grinded their behind off, at the end of the day the difference is the mentality of the player. I have two accounts, one with everything unlocked that took me close to 5 years to build up, the other is a Mostly Harmless CMDR with 3.5m credits in the bank and only Farseer unlocked. Both are fun to play in their own ways, but what new players need to realise is that with two exceptions (AX & PvP) both accounts can engage in exactly the same activities - the only difference is the level of efficiency. Many players, myself included, only realise this after a while though. Some new players when being told that respond with a hissy fit one way or the other, because they know better, or so they think.

 

[Rietz]

Of course it isn't....

I'm quite good at the insulting game too, would you like to continue playing it?

I don't need to imagine that

Another useful response with no substance. Even to go so far as to cut apart half of a sentence just to show off how elite he is.

If you're so good at understanding the game, would you mind explain to me which part of the game is deep enough that require 4k+ hours of in game time? You don't mean just exploring all the systems, do you?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

No, I didn't start engineering for close to a year of playing, just before setting out for the Abyssal Plain if my memory serves me well

Yeah exactly, i was the same. And it felt completely natural.. i was still so busy learning about other things and mucking around in the gold rushes it was so clear to leave engineering aside (apart from the fsd). Everything was so new i didn't have the headspace to dig into another seemingly complex system. Was one of the easiest decisions to make at the time

 

[TheChosen]

....never mind that it's been around for more than half a decade, which is not too shabby for a game that obviously is nowhere near your 'objective and universal' standards."

Correction .. three and a half decades. Elite came out in 1984. Since I follow retro-gaming groups on FB I know for a fact lots of people still play Elite 1,2,3. I finished Elite 3 myself over 4 times in the last 15 years. Underneath all the mats/engineers/ships/missions .. The core of the game is still the same. FDEV has been smart not to compromise the core of the game.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Another useful response with no substance. Even to go so far as to cut apart half of a sentence just to show off how elite he is.

If you're so good at understanding the game, would you mind explain to me which part of the game is deep enough that require 4k+ hours of in game time? You don't mean just exploring all the systems, do you?

If you can't see what would engross a player to spend over 4k hours in its galaxy I'd be lost trying to explain it to you, we have other regular posters with in excess of 10k hours played - should we ask them what has made them put so much time into it too?

...don't worry about lack of substance, all I'm currently doing is mirroring your own contribution, which, unsurprisingly, you dislike...

To explore all the systems (some 400 billion of them) might take a little over 4k hours...

But I am in 2 squadrons too, so have folk to interact with and enjoy everything the game offers...

Oh, and I have probably 40+ G5 engineered ships on 2 Fleet Carriers on top of my mountain too