ED - A Script Kiddie's Wet Dream

[ITZC0ATL]

In all this there are so many questions. if someone was to use a bot to extensively manipulate the BGS/PP systems, why on earth would they do it in open?

It also occurs to me, that the time investment needed to track and punish would be a huge limiting factor for FDev.

As for banning based on IPs.. There are ways and means to cheat at everything, IP hiding is just the beginning..

Perhaps the less intelligent cheaters do it in open? I hardly believe most cheaters will have coded their own bots, likely they've just downloaded someone else's work.

Ditto on the IPs (and I mean just monitoring for activity btw, not blanket-banning IPs), you've got cheaters that aren't super tech-savvy that will continue to cheat from the same IP or even forget their VPN/whatever and accidentally cheat on their IP sometime.

How many cheaters are in Elite? If it's a high number, than FDev absolutely need to be affording resources in order to kerb them. If it's a low number, then it shouldn't take huge resources to monitor their IPs and generally monitor the game data for suspicious patterns. Much of this can likely be automated as well, once FDev catch someone cheating they should hopefully be able to recognise the signatures in the data going forwards.

Point being, if it's an issue, it needs fixing. Some means will have to be worked out by FDev - this thread is somewhat of a moot point at this stage since I assume they're reading it and doing whatever it is they do with the information.

 

[bitstorm]

This is now just going to be a discussion about semantics isn't it.

Ok, I see where you might have got the 'bot' idea. A planetary lander is nothign like a 'bot' to me. What the other guys here are chatting about are bots or suspected bots. A bit of software that tells you what course you 'should' be flying is hardly a bot (I accept opinions differ)

Let me discuss a little more detail.

<snip>

Sure that isn't a bot but it isn't an autopilot either.

Those kind of things/abilities to me (again opinions may differ) are what enhance something that you like to spend time in/with.

The bit that irks me, is people making blanket statements without knowing what exactly is being proposed.

At the end of the day I think the commonly understood meaning of autopilot is something that steers the ship for you, from what you've said your thing does not steer the ship for you.

To be fair, I don't think you can blame people for assuming you were building an autopilot when you said you were building an autopilot.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/autopilot

Definition of autopilot
1 : a device for automatically steering ships, aircraft, and spacecraft; also : the automatic control provided by such a device

 

[philngraves]

It can be 'end game play' for someone that is only interested in BGS, for example, it is not that bad. That doesn't change the fact that if FD knows about this and hasn't done anything at all they deserve a reprimand, a big one.

To be fair, I am taking this a bit literal. End game is something one strives, sweats, and digitally bleeds to accomplish. BGS is something a sidewinder nub can do day one. Short of bantering semantics over expensive cargo haulage, BGS isn't eng game. Largely, this is because. Elite has no end game, just a massive galaxy.

As to bots, I play on xbox and have been criticized for using docking computers to make perfect landings... problem is I don't use docking computers. Just hundreds of hours of practice I suppose. My take off is usually spot on perfect every time, assuming I have been flying the same ship for a few hours without switching it up, as that throws my poor muscle memory into a tizzy.

I don't doubt someone has bots for PC... I do doubt that those bots are manipulating the BGS to the extent that it's news worthy.

I mean just tick off all the random scenarios in your head that a bot would have to be scripted to respond to...
1. Pirates. Can the bot evade interdiction? Can it recalculate routes if the interdiction occurs just a couple Mm before drop? If it fails the interdiction mini-game, can it escape? If the interdiction crashes it into a planet, can it use escape vector?
2. Auto dock. Does it use the built in auto dock? Can it respond if stuck in the queue? Can it respond if the auto dock tries to fly it into the space station backwards then crashes into the station walls repeatedly (occuring quite often this patch)? How does it deal with idiotic npc's in large ships ramming through the airlock of late?
3. Does the bot have the potential for self awareness? Seriously, this is important... Skynet is bad, mmkay.

 

[Ben Hennessy]

Hello all,

I'd like to drop in to clear up a few of the issues being discussed in this thread, in the hope that we can alleviate some of the concerns presented.

We do regularly take action on accounts we detect using client manipulation methods; this is a core function of our support and moderation efforts on Elite Dangerous. Over time we have come across cases ranging from automation scripts to full client hacks, and we have various accurate methods we can use to detect and confirm this is taking place. The video example being shared in this thread is three months old, and the associated accounts have already been reviewed.

The absolute best way to bring these players to our attention is either through an in-game user report or, if you have corroborating video evidence, via support ticket. Please bear in mind that a user report will not receive any further reply from us (as it's an automated web form), but every single one is reviewed by a member of our team. Tickets will receive a response, but only an acknowledgement of the report. We do not directly provide the outcome of an investigation, which may be why some players feel no action is being taken, but while it could be fun to know that your report directly led to disciplinary action we have to respect account privacy guidelines.

We are also pro-active with our investigations, reviewing a massive collection of information to pick out behaviours. Obviously I’m being rather shallow on the details of our detection methods so as to not give tips on how to avoid them, but over the lifetime of Elite Dangerous this has developed into a very efficient and thorough process which we are constantly tweaking and refining.

That said, no anti cheating process is flawless and instant. Occasionally an account will slip through the net, which is why your feedback on suspicious behaviour is vital to combating this behaviour. Give us the details of what / where / who of an instance of player behaviour which doesn't add up, and we'll take it from there.

Cheers,

CMDR Sticks

 

[philngraves]

In that case, I'd like to report that a good 50% of the posters in this thread show signs of Hypo-Thargoidism. I think we should hold them in quarantine pending further testing...

 

[ITZC0ATL]

Hello all,

I'd like to drop in to clear up a few of the issues being discussed in this thread, in the hope that we can alleviate some of the concerns presented.

We do regularly take action on accounts we detect using client manipulation methods; this is a core function of our support and moderation efforts on Elite Dangerous. Over time we have come across cases ranging from automation scripts to full client hacks, and we have various accurate methods we can use to detect and confirm this is taking place. The video example being shared in this thread is three months old, and the associated accounts have already been reviewed.

The absolute best way to bring these players to our attention is either through an in-game user report or, if you have corroborating video evidence, via support ticket. Please bear in mind that a user report will not receive any further reply from us (as it's an automated web form), but every single one is reviewed by a member of our team. Tickets will receive a response, but only an acknowledgement of the report. We do not directly provide the outcome of an investigation, which may be why some players feel no action is being taken, but while it could be fun to know that your report directly led to disciplinary action we have to respect account privacy guidelines.

We are also pro-active with our investigations, reviewing a massive collection of information to pick out behaviours. Obviously I’m being rather shallow on the details of our detection methods so as to not give tips on how to avoid them, but over the lifetime of Elite Dangerous this has developed into a very efficient and thorough process which we are constantly tweaking and refining.

That said, no anti cheating process is flawless and instant. Occasionally an account will slip through the net, which is why your feedback on suspicious behaviour is vital to combating this behaviour. Give us the details of what / where / who of an instance of player behaviour which doesn't add up, and we'll take it from there.

Cheers,

CMDR Sticks

^^ This is as fair a response as we're going to get

 

[Hellakitty]

I’d like to report myself please.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

^^ This is as fair a response as we're going to get

... and I somehow feel effect will be about the same as these combat log reports.

 

[Adam Jay]

Appreciate the clarification cmdr, however it is not easy to to report the bot runners as after first major wave of bans they are no longer tuat brazen to work in open. They are mostly only visible in open when board switching or detectable by out of the game methods which are of course restricted technicaly and/or legaly. We are of course aware that that this is being investigated, thing is that for people who have to invest time and energy to counter automated actions this is rather urgent. Thank you for understanding

 

[philngraves]

... and I somehow feel effect will be about the same as these combat log reports.

Combat log reports simply show that 'so and so' disconnected. While I understand the frustration of Cloggers ruining the murder, it would suck mightily to be reported and banned or some other such penalty for having a crappy network day.

Hopefully the game gets to the point where they can see that 'so and so' dc's from the game and 95% of those are when a pilot is nibbling on their gibblets. Lock them into solo play only, and flag their account so that bgs influence is zero'd. Problem is you need a large pool of data to determine how often they log, and word of mouth is only so much. That and most cloggers block the aggressor, making instancing with them again unlikely. Not sure how PC works in that regard, but it makes xbox murder more irritating.

I would like to see some kind of action soon though... call me a griefer, fine. At least I'm actually following the games rules lol.

 

[Ben Hennessy]

Appreciate the clarification cmdr, however it is not easy to to report the bot runners as after first major wave of bans they are no longer tuat brazen to work in open.

Understandable, and the open / solo differences are taken into account during our work. My initial response was for those times where players do happen to witness something strange going on, as it's better to report to us directly rather than through the forums.

CMDR Sticks

 

[Mengy]

Well holy frack, that video sure is convincing. I had no idea these kinds of bots existed in Elite.

I wonder though, if they had simply botted in solo, would anyone have ever known about it? Even Frontier? That's alarming.

 

[texasp8]

t's better to report to us directly rather than through the forums.

Thank you for replying on this thread. I absolutely agree. But I also think that if players are informed that it can happen, and what it might look like, they are better armed to help fight this battle. This is the reason I shared the location of that video here.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

I really don't understand where all those doubts about something as common as combination of scripting and screen recognition being possible coming, especially when bots are infesting nearly every online game that came out in last two decades. If you are one of those people who believe that only things in range of their sensory organs exist, try google, it is wonderful tool.

It's the same repeating pattern every time:

• Asteroid graphics where nerfed. People refused to believe it.
• NPC's started using Engineered weapons. Please refused to believe it.
• Planet graphics and geometry were nerfed. People refused to believe it.

And that is only a few examples.

In all those cases (just like in this bot case) Frontier acknowledge the issues as being real.

 

[coca_fr]

It's the same repeating pattern every time:

• Asteroid graphics where nerfed. People refused to believe it.
• NPC's started using Engineered weapons. Please refused to believe it.
• Planet graphics and geometry were nerfed. People refused to believe it.

And that is only a few examples.

In all those cases (just like in this bot case) Frontier acknowledge the issues as being real.

lol you finally reposted this post... after deletion...

You now have a subject for your next video ;-)

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Combat log reports simply show that 'so and so' disconnected.

What do the "bot report" show?
Even if *looks like* that player "plays like a bot" - this does not *prove* (s)he is using a bot, and you can't put "You must not look like a bot while playing or we will ban you" clause in EULA

 

[philngraves]

It's the same repeating pattern every time:

• Asteroid graphics where nerfed. People refused to believe it.
• NPC's started using Engineered weapons. Please refused to believe it.
• Planet graphics and geometry were nerfed. People refused to believe it.

And that is only a few examples.

In all those cases (just like in this bot case) Frontier acknowledge the issues as being real.

I honestly don't think most people deny they exist, just question the efficacy of using them to influence BGS. Sure there are nay-sayers, but you could take a flat-earther up in a space shuttle, fly them around the planet (key word, around*) and land. They would still deny its spherical roundiness.

I just feel like there are too many variables that would need to be accounted for to program a bot to do more than take of and fly you out of the station. Hell, the docking computer provided by frontier flys you into the station and lands, and it breaks every other patch. Partially broken in this one. And thats Frontiers bot.

What do the "bot report" show?
Even if *looks like* that player "plays like a bot" - this does not *prove* (s)he is using a bot, and you can't put "You must not look like a bot while playing or we will ban you" clause in EULA

Lol... then you need a 17 page disclaimer on what bot-likeness is, and how to avoid it.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Lol... then you need a 17 page disclaimer on what bot-likeness is, and how to avoid it.

Exactly

 

[o2thaZ]

Do you have any evidence of these bots? I'm not asking for proof, since I don't think they exist. But some evidence would be entertaining.

This.
OP please deliver evidence or it didnt happen.

 

[texasp8]

This.
OP please deliver evidence or it didnt happen.

I don't think I can link it because of Forum rules. But I wrote on Page 9 of this thread how you can find it.