dynamicbob
Banned
so then 200 tonnes in one system, before moving onto the next this way u can get the max daily spread over more systems, ill factor it into my efforts wherever they may fall
ED Background Simulation - Large Faction Influence Swing Mechanics
- Thread starter anonymousanarchist123
- Start date
so then 200 tonnes in one system, before moving onto the next this way u can get the max daily spread over more systems, ill factor it into my efforts wherever they may fall
^This^
Sadly, I have to disagree those we have had groups actively using these mechanics, them calling people exploiters when they are left no option but to use those same mechanics to even survive.
Anarchy Player Factions, are so vulnerable to being hunted to extinction because we spawn black markets and somehow our own black markets don't aid us and aren't merged into our commodity market. Until FDev acturly make Anarchies work properly these mechanics will continue to actively shaft us left right and centre.
Groups in the main sphere held and hid these mechanics and its undeniable, they held this back for their own simple greed and when people call it out they sit in silence and others deny it. We want a good background sim and those who seek to use corrupted and broken mechanics for their own gain need and don't reveal them to everyone should have no place in this community.
We need to push into the light other dark mechanics as they rise, so that people are aware of them and use them to defend themselves, if someone starts on them. In addition this will hopefully improve FDev's rate of fixing these issues.
The BGS has always been something of an arms race between players and the developers. They build systems, we find the cracks, the system evolves and the process starts again. The testing and notifying FD of exploits and game-breaking imbalances have been integral to that development. In fact the BGS was working quite well, balanced and reasonably free of exploits in 2.0 and 2.1.
From AEDCs perspective when we find problems such as these we don't always shout about it on the forums. It is a little irresponsible to give everyone a big red button and expect them not to press it!
. Better we think to bring these matters to FD's attention through bug reporting. They do watch, and care about, the BGS and do work in the background to improve it. That doesn't always happen at the pace we all would like and its not always communicated as well as we would like.
Regarding the 1T selling exploit, as I have said above, this is not the worst nuke that has been in game to date (its close though!) as at least one can counter bad selling with good selling. A horrible balance but a balance nonetheless. The diminishing returns mechanism - that some have noted here - also keeps a lid on it meaning that a faction cannot usually be tanked to 0 overnight. There are circumstances where this can happen, but its probably beyond the capabilities of any single player group in any mid-large pop system (small pop systems are trivial to move, as intended).
We are going through a bad period right now in terms of integrity of the game mechanics. Similar in many ways to version 1.3 with huge instability and nukes everywhere. In 1.3, for instance, factions could be tanked to 0 over the course of 1 tick by a small group. The 1T mechanism is bad but it is certainly not as apocalyptic as 1.3! We have notified FD of the difficulties and imbalances found in 2.2 and are awaiting the next patch or internal tweak.
This 1T selling is actually part of a wider imbalance in the BGS. Assets like stations and settlements are currently more of a liability than a benefit to factions as they are too vulnerable to too many kinds of attack. I would like to see a much wider fix in terms of balance than the much needed tweak to solve 1T selling.
From AEDCs perspective when we find problems such as these we don't always shout about it on the forums. It is a little irresponsible to give everyone a big red button and expect them not to press it!
. Better we think to bring these matters to FD's attention through bug reporting. They do watch, and care about, the BGS and do work in the background to improve it. That doesn't always happen at the pace we all would like and its not always communicated as well as we would like.Regarding the 1T selling exploit, as I have said above, this is not the worst nuke that has been in game to date (its close though!) as at least one can counter bad selling with good selling. A horrible balance but a balance nonetheless. The diminishing returns mechanism - that some have noted here - also keeps a lid on it meaning that a faction cannot usually be tanked to 0 overnight. There are circumstances where this can happen, but its probably beyond the capabilities of any single player group in any mid-large pop system (small pop systems are trivial to move, as intended).
We are going through a bad period right now in terms of integrity of the game mechanics. Similar in many ways to version 1.3 with huge instability and nukes everywhere. In 1.3, for instance, factions could be tanked to 0 over the course of 1 tick by a small group. The 1T mechanism is bad but it is certainly not as apocalyptic as 1.3! We have notified FD of the difficulties and imbalances found in 2.2 and are awaiting the next patch or internal tweak.
This 1T selling is actually part of a wider imbalance in the BGS. Assets like stations and settlements are currently more of a liability than a benefit to factions as they are too vulnerable to too many kinds of attack. I would like to see a much wider fix in terms of balance than the much needed tweak to solve 1T selling.
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i can give you even more ideas how bad this mechanic is... whoever thinks you cant flatten a faction over night: just use the trading thing to match them with another faction. shouldnt take longer than 1 tick. once they actually start war, nuke them in all their systems by raising another faction in that system. thus a week is enough to singlehanded eredicate a faction from the face galaxy...
the above happened to us, just not quite as elaborate... took them a bit longer but the methods where very much the same from the results i see when i test around with the 1t thing myself.
my 2cents: buying bulk, selling 1t has been fixed with 2.1. buying 1t, selling 1t was never fixed. combined with the inability to gain any influence while at war - utter destruction.
the above happened to us, just not quite as elaborate... took them a bit longer but the methods where very much the same from the results i see when i test around with the 1t thing myself.
my 2cents: buying bulk, selling 1t has been fixed with 2.1. buying 1t, selling 1t was never fixed. combined with the inability to gain any influence while at war - utter destruction.
The BGS has always been something of an arms race between players and the developers. They build systems, we find the cracks, the system evolves and the process starts again. The testing and notifying FD of exploits and game-breaking imbalances have been integral to that development. In fact the BGS was working quite well, balanced and reasonably free of exploits in 2.0 and 2.1.
From AEDCs perspective when we find problems such as these we don't always shout about it on the forums. It is a little irresponsible to give everyone a big red button and expect them not to press it!
Regarding the 1T selling exploit, as I have said above, this is not the worst nuke that has been in game to date (its close though!) as at least one can counter bad selling with good selling. A horrible balance but a balance nonetheless. The diminishing returns mechanism - that some have noted here - also keeps a lid on it meaning that a faction cannot usually be tanked to 0 overnight. There are circumstances where this can happen, but its probably beyond the capabilities of any single player group in any mid-large pop system (small pop systems are trivial to move, as intended).
We are going through a bad period right now in terms of integrity of the game mechanics. Similar in many ways to version 1.3 with huge instability and nukes everywhere. In 1.3, for instance, factions could be tanked to 0 over the course of 1 tick by a small group. The 1T mechanism is bad but it is certainly not as apocalyptic as 1.3! We have notified FD of the difficulties and imbalances found in 2.2 and are awaiting the next patch or internal tweak.
This 1T selling is actually part of a wider imbalance in the BGS. Assets like stations and settlements are currently more of a liability than a benefit to factions as they are too vulnerable to too many kinds of attack. I would like to see a much wider fix in terms of balance than the much needed tweak to solve 1T selling.
What you are sponsoring is surely elitism, you say anyone will surely use the big red button if they can and thusly it means that the big groups use it against others whenever they want, without those smaller organizations understanding or being able to prevent it happening.
At least when we had the Police Massacring mechanic, which is now far lesser it was difficult you needed a wing or two of competent combat pilots to fight wave after wave of anaconda's coming in on you. Though it was a bit extreme that it allowed you to drop a faction to 0% and that the police didn't use any tactics what so ever.
The BGS has always been something of an arms race between players and the developers. They build systems, we find the cracks, the system evolves and the process starts again. The testing and notifying FD of exploits and game-breaking imbalances have been integral to that development. In fact the BGS was working quite well, balanced and reasonably free of exploits in 2.0 and 2.1.
From AEDCs perspective when we find problems such as these we don't always shout about it on the forums. It is a little irresponsible to give everyone a big red button and expect them not to press it!
Regarding the 1T selling exploit, as I have said above, this is not the worst nuke that has been in game to date (its close though!) as at least one can counter bad selling with good selling. A horrible balance but a balance nonetheless. The diminishing returns mechanism - that some have noted here - also keeps a lid on it meaning that a faction cannot usually be tanked to 0 overnight. There are circumstances where this can happen, but its probably beyond the capabilities of any single player group in any mid-large pop system (small pop systems are trivial to move, as intended).
We are going through a bad period right now in terms of integrity of the game mechanics. Similar in many ways to version 1.3 with huge instability and nukes everywhere. In 1.3, for instance, factions could be tanked to 0 over the course of 1 tick by a small group. The 1T mechanism is bad but it is certainly not as apocalyptic as 1.3! We have notified FD of the difficulties and imbalances found in 2.2 and are awaiting the next patch or internal tweak.
This 1T selling is actually part of a wider imbalance in the BGS. Assets like stations and settlements are currently more of a liability than a benefit to factions as they are too vulnerable to too many kinds of attack. I would like to see a much wider fix in terms of balance than the much needed tweak to solve 1T selling.
OMG ..... sorry been away from the forum and game for a little bit. Are you saying that the 1t Selling Exploit, that was found and removed less than 6 months ago is back in game!?
If so I get the feeling I was close to being right when I suggested a while ago about when they develop the next update they aren't using the BGS as it currently is but use a version of 2 Major updates ago, without all of it's patches applied. Hence the game gets major update (Engineers, Guardians etc), but the BGS isn't a direct update of the current. Hence it feels like a step back each time the Major update comes around.
Please don't accuse us of something without evidence. What we are sponsoring, and what we have worked hard for since the game launched, is a functioning, fun, balanced BGS. We prefer if these exploits were fixed rather than used as they ruin the game and damages the integrity of the game long term.
We engage with other groups and individuals who are interested in the BGS via the BGS and bug threads. Helping them along and enabling them build up their own knowledge of the game - even those who are lore enemies. We have many player group neighbours with whom we have not even attempted to fight as we believe that space is big and co-existence is quite possible. it takes some diplomacy and goodwill from both sides but it is very workable. (A shout out to our very good neighbours too who seem to share this philosophy).
We have also gained knowledge that is hard earned through testing, theorizing and experimenting, following dev comments obsessively and engagement with the wider community. Let me be clear I am not talking about exploits - though it is part of our work to find and help eliminate them - it is more about a deep understanding of the game mechanics, how they interact and how they can be put to best use for whatever goal we are working on.
This is being painted in terms of group vs group action and advantage however figuring out the BGS is a big part of enjoying the game for us. We do not want to deny others the pleasure of discovery! It is not elitist to put effort into the game get advantages in the game. Should BGS groups share all their tactical and strategic knowledge gained through that hard work to those who have neither the inclination or the determination to do so? The game then becomes "Press X to BGS" which would not hold anyone's interest for too long.
This very thread is proof that this knowledge is available to everyone if they engage with the game and figure it out.
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It looks like the fix was a quick fix by requiring 1T buying and 1T selling to be effective. So it looks like it was never actually removed fully. This is extremely disappointing but understandable from a dev perspective to get an immediate fix in.
I will second that. The last time it felt as if they had changed it from 1t selling exploit to 100t for the same effect.
I still have different test results here. I can´t see it working, not as described. Sorry. Running tests the whole week, and until they didnt fix it we might not have all information to confirm that OP´s methods are working UNDER ALL CONDITIONS, for whatever reason. Don´t get me wrong, I am totally interested in the results and the conditions, but until now: Nothing has been proved. Lets do more science here.
thats even mentioned on the original post. read it again please before you say it doesnt work.
heres my previous findings:
See page 9 Henry has posted beta notes, showing it working.
I wonder if the BGS was ever meant to be played like we do. PMF were introduced at the community, but in reality the Minor Fac's were just 'make up' for the missions, markets change little to keep things continual for the casual player and the soloist, and to make it feel alive to the individual. Nothing that has been added to the game as a whole is to move the BGS along in any grand step. Wings - no more than 4. Clans - not in FD's making.
Hence it's generally 'Working as Intended'.
Hence it's generally 'Working as Intended'.
That's *exactly* what I was hoping for
I can still tell you that's probably not an exactly isolated experiment, because OI GET OUT OF MY SYSTEM!*
But the Bust state is what I'm most intrigued by, that's definitely new behaviour (and correct, imo).As I mentioned before though, I do believe 1t trading is still a thing, so no need to convince me.
People ask "Why is it transactional and not volume/profit etc".... it's really easy and quick to get a "COUNT TRANSACTIONS WHERE TYPE = "PROFIT", but a lot less efficient to go (pseudocoded)) "FOR ALL TRANSACTION; SUM QTYxPROFIT" etc.
*we weren't working there last night, but there's two other groups working this area who i can't vouch for.
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