Modes ED "Beyond" Disappointing, anyone have similar feelings?

InlineSix

InlineSix
thirstyfish said:
So you know that FD has very little to do when it comes to the server hardware....right?
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In the end it's FDev's decision what to use and how to put infrastructure in place.

The problem is a very cost efficient but sub par communication infrastructure in game. Starts with UDP. Goes on with geo loc ip based instanciating. More so with Amazon el cheapo services. No fallbacks. People who repeatedly screw connection building by fiddling around with MTA which is a no-go for more than 20 (!) years. The real list of issues with that is way longer and way more complex.

Fact is: Networking, matchmaking and procedural stability need a lot of work. Networking is dependent on way too many factors to work this way. Matchmaking can easily be manipulated. Bugs galore. All this "don't blame FD, blame Amazon, blame yourself, blame your connection" is utter rubbish.
 
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thirstyfish

thirstyfish
Gorr said:
Afaik problems are present in player populated systems. Those are the ones where actually fun things are happening, unless your cup of tee is camping at Beegle point or something like that.
Game is not working well in those cases for a lot of players, and those same players are able to play many other online games without any problems.

And yes, I am well aware of how many players are reporting all the same problems, using normal connections and not WiFi. Maybe you are the one that should check those forum parts more often.
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Hi, been in the top 50% or better on the last few Aegis CGs, and haven't been in solo mode either. While I am playing in a PG, it is a huge PG (member list is full), and is still subject to the same restrictions, and thus the same issues on the EDservers as anyone in open. That doesn't change.

And you are aware that a wired ethernet connection is generally going to be faster than wifi right? Barring things like the hardware in the area being twisted copper cable or something else that is super slow. And assuming that people don't have access to the 60 gigaherts wireless routers used in labs.

I am about as average as it gets, on wifi, don't have a serious router, not using a gaming rig that costs thousands of dollars. I would expect to run into networking issues at an average rate, but I haven't. That is all the data I have to go on. Nice try with the "read the bug reports section," though, I do have other things to do with my time, and the number of reports that forum users have bothered to file doesn't exactly make for a good sample.
 

InlineSix

InlineSix
jontycampbell said:
Oddly enough my 38MB wifi connection is used for all my onliner games with no probs aside from ED.
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I have used 5 different connections with 3 providers on 3 locations. Currently on a 120 MBit cable.

Have used half a dozen routers and even more PCs.

There has _NEVER_ been stability and performance in this system.

Since 2.4. dropped - no changes from my side - there is a constant flow of people going offline and people coming online. A flow as in MASS FLOODING of my contacts. I have 2 people in my friends list. One moment later it's 50+. Unable to talk to anyone. One moment later: Empty. Same with instances.

Again: I did not change anything on my side. Problems get worse at peak times.

ONLY game EVER I had these problems with.

There is no justification that certain people need to setup a VPN for being able to play ED on a standard home connection, there is no justification for peak time outages, there is no justification for 10 hour downloads etc. Saying "Don't blame FD" is a joke.
 

RagingxPenguin

R
Nailed it. Rep in bound

Lately I've been playing new games, Dabbling with World of war ships (best my PC can do) and waiting for something to catch my attention on console.

I'll sometimes log back into Elite.
See if I can find some PvP, and usually log off if none is easily found. Poked the goids and saw a bit there. But when the reality was they were god mode bullet sponges I was almost upset.
I'm not interested in space trucking material ATM for new weapons. I've ran SO much cargo for CGs. It's always the same thing.
So I log off and find other things to do. I hope that 3.0 brings some much needed life into the game. I have some ideas that I'll throw into the appropriate forum. Its not fair of me to complain and offer no suggestions
 
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amadeus1171

amadeus1171
LJITimate said:
if you dont like it make your own space game. they did listen and said that they would go to the core gameplay in 2018. anyway, I quite like things like landing on moons or trading and combat, I don't know what you are on about
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Who's with me for making our own space game?! DB, can we have your blessings? It should be open source and built by the community, with hooks into the FD store so FD can still make money.

And it shouldn't be just a game. It should be a true sandbox simulation that's scientifically accurate and truly scientific solutions to things such as frame shift drive.
 
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thirstyfish

thirstyfish
InlineSix said:
In the end it's FDev's decision what to use and how to put infrastructure in place.

The problem is a very cost efficient but sub par communication infrastructure in game. Starts with UDP. Goes on with geo loc ip based instanciating. More so with Amazon el cheapo services. No fallbacks. People who repeatedly screw connection building by fiddling around with MTA which is a no-go for more than 20 (!) years. The real list of issues with that is way longer and way more complex.

Fact is: Networking, matchmaking and procedural stability need a lot of work. Networking is dependent on way too many factors to work this way. Matchmaking can easily be manipulated. Bugs galore. All this "don't blame FD, blame Amazon, blame yourself, blame your connection" is utter rubbish.
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UDP is used by most online multiplayer games because it is very fast, much faster than TCP.

Geographical location doesn't matter to ED networking, internet locality does. Don't conflate the two.

And if AWS are that bad, why are they used....everywhere?



jontycampbell said:
meaning?
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Trust me, you don't want me to try to explain, would take way too long. Just be glad they are there.
 
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Sunleader

Sunleader
I agree on some. I disagree on some others.

Commenting on something I agree on wholeheartedly.


Combat is BORING AS CRAB.
Every Ship is in Essence just an Fighter. Guns out Front.
So its Turnfighting or Lancing. 1 out of 2 Combat Options.
Same for the Guns. Its Kinetic or Laser. And thats it because Rockets are almost useless.

We need to Break out of the Fighter Pilot Universe. And actually start having Different Ships and Weapons. That are more than just a slightly Different Graphic.
We need Stuff that actually makes a Difference to how you Fight.
Needless to say we also need some more stuff for Missions etc etc to do.
 

thirstyfish

thirstyfish
amadeus1171 said:
Who's with me for making our own space game?! DB, can we have your blessings? It should be open source and built by the community, with hooks into the FD store so FD can still make money.

And it shouldn't be just a game. It should be a true sandbox simulation that's scientifically accurate and truly scientific solutions to things such as frame shift drive.
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Great, you go ahead and figure out the physics of getting around the FTL energy requirements problem...good luck. Without that right there, we are stuck in the Sol system and stuck with 3 days of travel time just to get to the moon.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Gorr said:
If you base your game around system that is making problems to so many people, than it is your fault and not theirs.
Most of people with problems are playing other games perfectly fine.

I don't get all the people basically saying - hey you, just shut up and get used to disconnections and game frezes because that is how it should work!!!
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We are not. I get virtually no disconnection. Last one I had was the day 2.4 went live. After that it has been plain sailing. No disconnection.
 

InlineSix

InlineSix
UDP is used by most online multiplayer games because it is very fast, much faster than TCP.
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UDP is only faster in theory. Priorities and network quality makes UDP prone to error laden decreases in performance.

"Most" online multiplayer games needs a source for that claim.

Even if so, the backdoor'd conclusion you wish to imply is untrue. Most games + faster. Invalid conclusion.

Geographical location doesn't matter to ED networking, internet locality does. Don't conflate the two.
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I did not claim what you say. I did not say anything about real (!) life geographic location of the end user or the server, I was talking about geolocation issues. I had to run a VPN for 6 months due to FDevs inability to locate my IP correctly. Tier x provider. Global scaled. FDev fault: outdated geoloc database.

And if AWS are that bad, why are they used....everywhere?
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I have never ever claimed AWS is bad. I do not tend to over-generalizations.

The real problem is the whole setup as I had described.
 
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InlineSix

InlineSix
Max Factor said:
We are not. I get virtually no disconnection. Last one I had was the day 2.4 went live. After that it has been plain sailing. No disconnection.
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This is one of the major problems: A huge fraction of the player base seldom has disconnections, matchmaking woes, adjucant server failures and the like. For the rest it's a constant pain.
 

InlineSix

InlineSix
jontycampbell said:
120meg?? Wowzers. I think I will try a LAN cable from my router instead of using wifi from it, which is just 15 feet away. It's a crappy talktalk router-MODEM, which my Bro has advised me to replace or bridge it, but I'm afraid I will brick the thing.
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I have access to way better connections, most of them not enduser stuff. Quality of transport to relevant FDev nodes is not better with these. The whole discussion is always based on FDev supports: "get a better connection" which is basically the gitgud stuff one gets in here all the time, unfortunately. This community has ego issues :-(

In general: If your crappy whatevermodemconnectionthingy(tm) works fine on other games it should do so with ED. End of discussion. Why? Because the amount of data and the criticalness (sic!) of timing is a joke with ED compared to other games. Issues are NOT using wifi or being on some ADSL connection. Issues are a basically flawed system which is pushed to further efficiency money wise.

It is more than interesting that most matchmaking issues occur at specific times of day or release cycle.

In that case I want my £35 back!
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I wish SC all the best. I just think they can't swallow what they bit off.
 
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