ED gameplay it's all about -> logoff/logon

[askavir]

1 - Some people choose to play the game in a stupid way (playing login bingo) in order to fast-track self perceived "progress" and fulfilling self-imposed "needs".

2 - The very same people complain that playing in a stupid way is stupid.

3 - Facepalm.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

An exploit is something not meant to happen in the game, Frontier says it is what it is, so it is not an exploit, is a consequence of mechanics, and add that it doesn't directly harm anyone, (add that most of those things mentioned shouldn't work anymore) then what is really the problem? yes others might use it to gain stuff for themselves, but does it affect anyone but themselves? other then possible PvP scenarios?

That creates an interesting situation.

Lets say you're right. This feature is not an exploit. The developers did intend log on/log off to be used to refresh the bulletin boards. They also stated that using the log on/log off this way is against the spirit of the game. So the claim means that the developers knowingly put a feature in the game that is against the spirit of the game.

Or ... the statement from the FD employee was meant to placate the community when everyone was having a hissy fit at the time, and FD did not knowingly put a feature in the game they themselves deem to be against the spirit of the game.

I know which one of those explanations sounds more credible to me

 

[Siranui]

meta alloy collecting community goals. Without reloging we wouldn't even get to stage one because there aren't enough hours in the day...

Not at all true.

Without logging tactics the first CG would have fallen desperately short. Then FD would have looked at the numbers and modified future CGs.

Problem solved. That justification for logging invalid.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

With regard to the OP, and the "Just don't do it" reply, I agree. That won't cut it.

What is needed is persistence in the Mission Boards (amongst many other areas). Open/Solo/Private, all the same missions.

 

[DukeIronHand]

That creates an interesting situation.

Lets say you're right. This feature is not an exploit. The developers did intend log on/log off to be used to refresh the bulletin boards. They also stated that using the log on/log off this way is against the spirit of the game. So the claim means that the developers knowingly put a feature in the game that is against the spirit of the game.

Or ... the statement from the FD employee was meant to placate the community when everyone was having a hissy fit at the time, and FD did not knowingly put a feature in the game they themselves deem to be against the spirit of the game.

I know which one of those explanations sounds more credible to me

It does seem odd however the answer is very simple. So simple that, because they don't do it, the "log on/off lottery" must be a design feature(?).

The simple answer is timed board refreshes. Since the game server tracks "galactic time" just have the boards refresh at a "realistic" interval (10 minutes? 15?) independent of what the player does. And only half the missions would refresh at a time to be more "real."

But again I guess that is a PvPer concern.
As a Solo player I chose what I want to do and how I want to play the game. The board refreshes of others do not matter in my universe.

 

[UnhappyDev]

With regard to the OP, and the "Just don't do it" reply, I agree. That won't cut it.

What is needed is persistence in the Mission Boards (amongst many other areas). Open/Solo/Private, all the same missions.

Well that would be nice, but I guessing it's not an easy fix or one that is imminent, given that it has been in he game since day one

 

[Lunchmoney]

The problem is that 90% of all players using this feature. Why i'm writing this down here is i want that FD change their gameplay to a good one without killing immersion and cause a lot of server traffic...

I'd like to see proof of that. Or is just another example of 82.34% of all stats being made up?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Login off/on isn't the problem. It's a symptom of the problem.

The imbalance in this game are the problem.
Without extreme "get rich quick" methods there wouldn't be a need to just do one thing all the time.
Without the currently not ideal mission spawning system there wouldn't be a need to log off/on to get better missions or enough missions to fill the hold.

Credits are used in this game as a way to balance certain aspects of the game and as a result players try everything to work around this balancing. Without the ability to log on/off and switch between modes to get better or more missions or spawns players will jump out of the system and back. It will take longer and players will complain more about the grind and the stupid gameplay ("It's just jumping in and out of systems…"), but players would do it.
If that isn't possible they will come up with something else and then complain about that.

There is an other problem. The imbalance in the combat system that pushes players to "high-end" ships and equipment resulting in players who are new to the game or don't play that much having a huge disadvantage. Those who already have high-end ships complaining about the game (the NPCs) being to easy - resulting in potential power creep, claiming that losing 30 Mcr isn't a problem because of <get-rich-method-of-the-month> - potentially devaluating credits.

At first glance this all might be just a problem of Open Mode or a problem of players who want everything as fast as possible, but in the long run it affects everybody no matter how they play or in what mode they play.
The BGS is the same in all modes. The difficulty of the NPCs is the same in all modes. The way FD uses credits to balance things is the same.

FD needs to balance the mission system, the combat system, the way players can earn credits. A lot of things.
Just preventing players from log off/on or how many missions they can accept won't change a lot and certainly won't help.

 

[Siranui]

I agree with OP. Simply saying don't do it is not a good enough answer. If you're trying to raise the influnce of a faction in one system to gain control and someone else is trying to elevate a different faction and they are menu logging to stack missions you are hamstringing yourself if you don't do the same. The universe effectively becomes rigged against you.

But you have no way of knowing if someone is trying to raise that faction in opposition to you or not. Or if they are also cheating by logging.

So, your defence of cheating/exploiting/emergent gameplay via the logging mechanism is an empty justification. If you think about it you are saying:

"I am cheating because someone else *might* be doing something in opposition to me, and I think that they *must* be cheating, so I have to cheat as well otherwise I am hamstringing myself"

What if there is a guy in opposition to you and he is NOT logging and stacking things? Then you are the one who is exploiting and gaining unfair advantage by it and you're the bad guy; you are the person you are complaining about.
What if there is no opposition? Then your justification is invalid and you're still the guy exploiting the game, and trying to blame someone else for your behaviour.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Let me guess some things about you. You like solo, you get jealous of anyone who has anything better than you. You can't fly to save your skin and you presume far to much about people you have never spoken to or met.

Do you realise the amount of irony you just posted?

 

[drzdeano]

Well, as seems usual, you would be incorrect.

Yes I play Solo - certainly by internet connection but probably by choice.

Jealous? Jealous of what? That's an Open idea to be concerned, worried, anxious, about what other players have or are doing. You say it yourself above. In Solo why would I care about how you play your game.

Can't fly to save my skin? Not sure exactly what that means but I seem to get from point A to point B just fine.

And finally I like small ships and have been using them exclusively. Edit: 3 months into my latest career I just bought a Python 3 days ago. Been flying that heavy ever since.

My apologies if you were offended. It seems all our PvP'ers are the "good ones" who hang around Eravate helping noob's. Amazed anyone gets killed in Open with all these heros around. And a Python in "5 days" eh? Must have been some serious marathon gaming in a starter ship.

Again. Why does anyone care what another player does in a damn game? Solo and PG's players don't. Always a sign of the Open PvP'er.

you missed my point about making judgements about people you dont know. i do not look for pvp, however if it finds me i will fight, run or die. As long as players are held to same rules as NPCs(read everyone) i dont care whos flying..

And why should i/you care about what happens in open/solo. Apart from the fact you can effect the BGS from your hidden instance without me ever finding out why. *cough ahem sidetracked*
Whatever happens to one mode happens to the other. so if something gets nerfed or becomes OP, it affects both.

and yes, 5 days of doing sothis runs , easily achievable.

 

[NeilF]

They fixed instant undocking in one build. ie Insta-undocking being:-
- In a station select LAUNCH.
- Exit to menu.
- Enter game 10k away from Station (thus saving time).


So if you tried this, and didn't actually fly all the way out of the station, you'd find your self back on the landing pad...

But this was short lived, and now insta-undocking is back in the game...

 

[Chang Patak]

I too am short on game time, I have a wife and full time job.

Guess what, I don't use exploits and have no idea what people are on about when I keep reading NPC's are overpowered or cheats. I have 14 deaths since Alpha and I do pretty much nothing but bounty hunting.
This game is here for the long run, and should be played as such, people need to stop trying to get to "endgame" so fast.

 

[Kalimero]

I'm just gonna stay well away from the whole argument about people's attitude towards their free time, since that's just one of those dicussions that's never gonna go anywhere...ever.

It's easy... give us the opportunity to choose our own commodity reward for doing a mission. So you could get what you need.

Instead I'd like to focus on what I quoted above. That actually sounds interesting!
FD has been making an effort to make the game seem more vivid, hence the profile pictures for every NPC. I think a "haggling-system", as implied by the OP, could work and has the potential to make interactions with NPCs more interesting.

Let's say there is a mission for 100.000 credtis on offer and let's say I have enough credits right now, but I want something else like...uh...idonno...fish.
Instead of clicking on "accept" you click on "haggle" and choose a commodity in a quantity that reflects the 100k credit using the galactic average price...or more. The NPC then makes his offer and tries to push it below the average and so on. You know how haggling works.

Standing with factions could play into this as well as rank. The most difficult part is going to be to communicate progess in this. The most immersive option seems to be to somehow have the NPC display emotions to show how things are going, which would require a lot more images for each and every NPC than there currently is. Cargo space also limits the quantity of the wares discussed...not sure how to remedy that right now. Have the option to pick up your stuff with a different ship? Have some type of storage?

I like the basic idea though!

 

[DukeIronHand]

you missed my point about making judgements about people you dont know. i do not look for pvp, however if it finds me i will fight, run or die. As long as players are held to same rules as NPCs(read everyone) i dont care whos flying..

And why should i/you care about what happens in open/solo. Apart from the fact you can effect the BGS from your hidden instance without me ever finding out why. *cough ahem sidetracked*
Whatever happens to one mode happens to the other. so if something gets nerfed or becomes OP, it affects both.

and yes, 5 days of doing sothis runs , easily achievable.

Well it looks like we have common ground here.
1) Yes indeed. All should have to play by the same rules - even the NPC. No cheating.

2) Yes the BGS is the ONLY connection between the modes albeit tenuous at best and I am unsure, with all the systems and stations available, how much a Cmdr, or group of Cmdr's does, rocks the galaxy in a long term fashion before equilibrium takes over.

3) Yes 5 days of dedicated Sothis runs can do it, I guess, once you have a ship capable of doing it well...and have the local rep and a cushion for your chair. Perhaps I was interjecting my own play style there. I am not a "grinder." Once something even starts to feel "unfun and grindy" I switch to doing something else.

Fly well!

 

[Karlos Ploryman]

In every thread regarding "realism", "immersion" or other similar words someone pops up and gives a statement like this. And it is by far the WORST you can say. This "who cares"-attidude is nothing but pure ignorance of other players.

I agree in a way...

I have a "friend", I see him in-game about once per half a year...
We have been chatting a lot about our progression and ways we have achieved it (mod changing included) and seeing him arriving to our meeting place in a brand new python when I still was i a viper made me feel very happy!

Same when I was in a Python (finally!) too and he arrived in Anaconda, I felt happy for him!


This game is IMHO PvE (with PvP tolerated, but not primary focus on it). Unability to find something (be it mission only eng commodity mission spawn or anything else) can lead to serious frustration.


This should be adressed by FDEV
- MANY more mission spawns?
- LOT faster refresh of the missions available?
- ability to choose the reward from several options?
- <add your own ideas>


Also I think that having a instance with crappy spawns of NPC / rocks in a pristine metalic ring versus instance with very good spawns of NPC / rocks in the VERY SAME ring is a bit stupid... I know it must be randomized somehow, but this way is stupid.

o7 Karlos

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yeah, that exploit definitely needs to be closed so people stop complaining about how doing the same thing 24/7 is grind and how that's all the game has to offer.

The sad thing is that this is actually true: FD needs to police its own community. Not to protect people from others, but to protect people from themselves. Its simply pathetic. Not that FD shouldnt improve some parts (modular friggn' terminals, for example), but the 'I have to mission log' nonsense should stop.

 

[Kalimero]

Well it looks like we have common ground here.[...]

Well, damn! This is kinda going somewhere. Don't make me look like a fool now!

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

Good progress in a game is achieved by playing the game, not exploiting it. Most likely, those who exploit a game, just like to collect assets, increase numbers, or are just impatient.
Elite offers no true rank progression, no true ship progression, no skill-level progression or point based character development... why? Because Elite is about personal goals.
All the amazing stuff in Elite happens around those people, who want to achieve personal goals and have the ideas and the drive to take on that task.

I say, gameplay in Elite is what you make it and the progress is defined by the gain of fun you get from that.
When i remove my Rift after each session, i have either a story to tell, have seen something truly amazing, or achieved (or progressed towards) something i wanted to do.
Elite is amazing as it is.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

As far as I understand it is created server side... All players at a station will view the same set of missions. I think.

Because the galaxy is the same for every mode. Mission stacking a la Sothis wouldn't have worked as it did. This is the evidence mission board can't be the same
to all at a specific point in thime, sadly which leads to conclusion it must be created on the client by radomizing a given range.

Regards,
Miklos