ED VR - upgrade thoughts - Rift CV1 to Rift S

[CMDR M Kozak]

Hello everyone,

This is a question asked some times already, but I really hope you have it in you to toss your 2 cents at this one as well.

First: My problem
I have really tried to enjoy ED in VR (for over two years now), but I must admit I keep going for the monitor for better clarity/graphics/fidelity/immersion. Currently with the CV1 there is just too many jagged lines and coarse graphics for me to really like it. Last time I really tried to "dive in to VR" was a while back doing deep core mining. Sure, its supposed to be amazing but... it really isnt for me. The whole spacial awareness that you would expect from VR is null for me, as I keep relying on instruments in the cockpit for distances, ship types etc. Shooting fixed weapons at anything but point blank range is extremely hard when you are aiming at wobbling smears.

I also have to use glasses in the headset, but does not require them for monitor play.

Then: My question
The move to Rift S has been considered. But will it be enough of a change to warrant it?
Jagged edges - how are they compared to CV1.
Combat - can you make out the ships if they are more than just a few hundred meters away?
Etc.
The CV1 will go on ebay regardless after 2 years of trial. Its just not good enough.

 

[Nighteyes]

While I'm kind of going against my own advice (I'm getting a Rift S along with a whole new beast of a PC - 2080 ti got delivered just 30 mins ago!), you may wish to hold off until the HP Reverb Pro is readily available again.

You could also look at what Pimax are doing, I think they'll make use of your CV1 lighthouse stations.

 

[AdioKIP]

I just installed my Rift S today after having played elite with a Rift DK2, Rift CV1 and Lenovo HMD over the last 3 years. While the Rift S is a definite upgrade in visual clarity, based on your feelings I still dont believe you would be happy with it. Its a good upgrade, but if the CV1 wasnt good enough to draw you into elite, the S wont be enough of a difference maker to satisfy you.

If you truly want clarity, try an HP Reverb. Amazon had some in stock over the weekend. Personally I am getting a Reverb before the end of the year and plan on using the Rift S only for room scale VR games over the long term. If you're going to go reverb, just make sure you have the computer to run it. I would say a recent i7 or Ryzen 3 processor, with a MINIMUM of a 2070 super but preferably a 2080ti. VR is demanding enough, pushing it up to 4k resolution like the reverb just makes it even harder.

 

[willisit]

Firstly, the Rift was a great headset and I spent hundreds of hours playing Elite with it. That said, as a Pimax and Index user, and having tried WMR, the Rift has now been packed up (well, moved to another room!). The Pimax in whichever variant you choose is still very much a... "hobbiest" headset. It needs a better headstrap, it has to use Vive/Valve base stations (the cameras from the CV1 will not work) and so on. The Index is bloody expensive but superb.

There's no harm in going with the Rift S (check your IPD though; I can't use it as my eyes are too close together which is why I dumped the WMR headset); it has a good resolution, is compact and doesn't need a ton of extra kit (cameras/stations) to use. The resolution is not going to be like your monitor though, but the Index (for example) has clear text that makes a world of difference. I love it. Try before you buy?

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

Trying before buying is not possible in Denmark as far as I can google it, which is sad though. That really goes for all headsets.

My IPD is around the 63,5 - 64 mm mark, so I think I'm in the Rift S "zone".

Another question (for those who have tried both CV1 and S) is about the black levels. Watching through a plethora of youtube videos, there are just as many opinions on the matter as there are content creators. So whats your take?

In other news, I managed to squeeze a bit more image quality out of my CV1. I have not been running with any AA, and a HMD quality of 1.5. But a switch to FXAA while dialing HMD quality down to 1.25 have given me a much sharper image (in my eyes). Stations run at 90 hz while some conflict zones still go the ASW way.

My rig is Ryzen R5 2600x with a MSI Armor RTX 2070

 

[Cliché]

You sound a bit like me. I played on a 32" 2K monitor for a couple years. Then I got a Rift CV1 and played for about a year, or in other words, until I couldn't take the poor image quality anymore (I haven't touched it in a year). Then I picked up a refurbished 43" 4K monitor and played with that for about a year. The 4K looked awesome, and just a couple feet away, was really immersive, or so I thought. But then I got the itch for VR again. I had said I'd would wait for true second generation VR and the hardware to drive it, and then build a new system. But on a whim I decided to try the S.

I think VR looks amazing in the S, and that's with my 4.5 year old system. The resolution is increased and the lenses are improved. SDE and godrays are barely noticeable unless looking for them. And the sweet spot is huge. I think it looks so good, even coming from 4K, that I can't imagine going back. I'll actually probably sell the 4K and go back to the 2K monitor for other things. I also chose the S because I had some Oculus only games that I hadn't even tried yet, and the Touch controllers are supposedly superior to other brands (though I really haven't used them yet). The inside-out tracking works flawlessly, as long as the room has lighting. It is so much better than the USB sensor tracking.

Regarding black levels, this is the one disappointing thing. They are not as black as either the CV1 or my monitor. But after a few days, I realized that I never noticed in higher contrast situations, like inside stations, around stations, in combat, and on planets. The only time I notice it is when I'm in SC on a long trip. And even then, sometimes it looks a lot darker than others, so I wonder if it has something to do with the lighting in ED. Anyway, to me, the poor black levels are nothing compared to being back in a spaceship.

I think your hardware should be able to push a higher HMD image quality and higher graphics settings than me, so it should look even better for you. The HP Reverb may be better in some ways, but I think it also costs about twice as much, so that's a decision for you. I don't get why people are saying that the S is not a significant improvement - unless they can't get over the poor built-in sound. Just use headphones. But if you are willing to wait a couple years, you can always get something even better.

PS. I didn't need to use glasses with the CV1, or even my 2K monitor. But with the 4K so close, I did need to use some old/weak cheaters. I also need those in the S, and I haven't had any problems.

 

[dunno]

Set the Terrain Work slider all the way to the left, this pushes that work to the CPU and frees up the GPU.

I've pretty much similar settings with my 1080Ti and CV1, except for HMD at 2, and all terrain settings to max. very clear text and good frame rates, just the occasional ASW.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

A small update,

I messed around with settings and straps on my CV1 and it has started to look better. Perhaps I just need to spend more time turning knobs and dials.
Been using it for more and longer sessions.

What about audio - what are you guys using? All reviews of the Rift S says the audio is crap.

 

[Arioch]

A small update,

I messed around with settings and straps on my CV1 and it has started to look better. Perhaps I just need to spend more time turning knobs and dials.
Been using it for more and longer sessions.

What about audio - what are you guys using? All reviews of the Rift S says the audio is crap.

The audio is a little better than it was at release after a few firmware patches, and using the Windows audio enhancements I’ve found the Rift S sound to be acceptable.

I started off using headphones but to be honest, like with the decreased black levels, having reduced bass is something I’ve got used to.

I tend to plug in headphones for a bit of Beat Saber, but that’s about it.

For me, the move from Rift to Rift S was worth it for the increase in clarity, reduction of SDE and almost-elimination of Godrays. I haven’t seen a performance drop either.

 

[Nighteyes]

The audio is a little better than it was at release after a few firmware patches, and using the Windows audio enhancements I’ve found the Rift S sound to be acceptable.

Oooh, I haven't messed about with Windows audio enhancements. Any settings you recommend?

 

[Arioch]

Oooh, I haven't messed about with Windows audio enhancements. Any settings you recommend?

This is the picture from elsewhere on this subforum:

...though I’ve got the Bass Boost selected as well.

Another sound enhancement that gives a surprising boost is just cupping your ears. What I’ve tried is using the plastic egg shell halves from a Kinder Joy chocolate sweet thing and sticking them to the headband - looks proper daft though. I’m considering spraying them matt black and adding small Velcro bits for easy attachment and slightly fewer what-the-bloody-hell comments from the family

 

[lreese]

For audio I use a pair of wireless in ear bluetooth headphones. I bought a bluetooth transmitter and connected it to the Rift s 3.5mm jack. Works perfectly and the audio is comparable or even better than the CV1 in terms quality.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

Any word on the flashing static issue reported? I found some reports stating that a firmware fix should be out now - only to read that it did not fix the issue. Some conflicting information perhaps?

 

[Nighteyes]

Haven't had a single static flash since the firmware upgrade. Got the odd one prior to it.

 

[A D]

Trying before buying is not possible in Denmark as far as I can google it, which is sad though. That really goes for all headsets.

My IPD is around the 63,5 - 64 mm mark, so I think I'm in the Rift S "zone".

Another question (for those who have tried both CV1 and S) is about the black levels. Watching through a plethora of youtube videos, there are just as many opinions on the matter as there are content creators. So whats your take?

In other news, I managed to squeeze a bit more image quality out of my CV1. I have not been running with any AA, and a HMD quality of 1.5. But a switch to FXAA while dialing HMD quality down to 1.25 have given me a much sharper image (in my eyes). Stations run at 90 hz while some conflict zones still go the ASW way.

My rig is Ryzen R5 2600x with a MSI Armor RTX 2070

View attachment 138512

Given your build you should be able to run much higher settings. I have a i7800k (6 cores) and GTX 1080 ti and can run the settings at ultra without noticeable stutter, although I'd be the first to admit that I'm in ASW territory around stations, asteroid belts, etc (just doesn't bother me).

I've tired numerous settings and IMO the two that make the most difference to clarity are FXAA (great cheap anti-aliasing for jaggies) and HMD. With HMD you need to get it up to 1.75 to make a real difference, but you can wind back other settings if need be. Leave SS at 1 as its rubbish and expensive AA.I can see you already have two out of three of those settings.

My current settings are:

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

Given your build you should be able to run much higher settings. I have a i7800k (6 cores) and GTX 1080 ti and can run the settings at ultra without noticeable stutter, although I'd be the first to admit that I'm in ASW territory around stations, asteroid belts, etc (just doesn't bother me).

My current settings runs at 90hz in 95% of the time. Some combat zones and stations still show a bit of ASW artifacting.

ASW in stations can sometimes cause me a bit of nausia for some reason.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

One more thought: Does anyone think that ED will stop supporting VR when the 2020 update goes live?

 

[Kemo]

One more thought: Does anyone think that ED will stop supporting VR when the 2020 update goes live?

It's a fear I have, nothing particularly founded in any facts mind.

I think they would be absolutely nuts to do so, ED is still listed at the top of the VR lists when it comes to full games, if you are in to space, space games and VR... ED currently trumps them all. Its stunning in VR and could be made to be so much more.

Imagine the movement of Lone Echo around your ships in ED when in zero G, add in some atmospheric planets, rain hammering against the canopy as you skim through the atmosphere of an alien volcanic world, touching down in a dimly lit canyon... we've all watched movies like this, VR actually enables you to be in there.

Those other games... SC is not offering VR, NMS - i'm looking forward to the 14th, but it won't have the flight model, realism(ish) of ED and X4, no contender.

ED+VR - made for each other, FD just need to grasp it and go all out, especially if they really want to put themselves ahead of the competition. Just offering spacelegs, base building, and atmo won't really cut it, but do that all within VR... oh baby!

 

[A D]

My current settings runs at 90hz in 95% of the time. Some combat zones and stations still show a bit of ASW artifacting.

ASW in stations can sometimes cause me a bit of nausia for some reason.

Fair enough. So need to work out how avoid ASW as much as possible. My suggestion would be to set AA to FXAA, SS at 1 and HMD at 1.75. I've tried numerous settings and IMO those are the best for clarity. Then fiddle with the rest of the game settings until you hit 90 FPS in stations. I tried this on my rig and can hit that target if I use the default "high" settings in ED and just change the 3 I've mentioned above. If you still have a bit of overhead, then can adjust the settings (e.g. model distance, shadows, etc) you like most one at a time and test.

If you download Oculus Tray Tool it has an option to display the FPS in your headset while playing ED so you can see what's happening in real time and the effect of any changes you make to the settings . The tool also allows you to turn off ASW if you want, but you will then notice frame drops if your settings are too high.

As regards VR support in ED, seems to be the bridesmaid but I can't see why ED would drop it. I agree with your comments about how good it is and can honestly say I would stop playing the game if VR was dropped.

 

[jnTracks]

I'm sorry if this came up already because I just very quickly skimmed the thread, but in regards to jagged stuff and far away objects being unable to make out.

There is a big, BIG improvement to far away object clarity by setting HMD to 2.0 and SS to 0.5. This will result in no load change on your system resources compared to leaving them both at native resolution (1.0 for both), and it will look the same for close up objects, but distant object will be much smoother.
From there turn up SS as high as you can with your particular system, while leaving HMD at 2.0.