Elephants in cold

I'm not sure this is the right thread, but then again I wouldn't know which suits it better.

I was wondering about Asian Elephant cold and snow tolerance. I'm planning a "Pleistocene Park" of sorts, with modern animals, similar to Russian project under Zimovs.

I was planning this big habitat with Deer, Horses, Camels and Elephants, that's why I was wondering -if I want to be realistic:

1. How far North can I go with my location until holding the elephants become unrealistic?

2. How big, compared to their habitat, need their indoor houses to be, if it means they might spent whole winters there? Would that bee ethical at all, and is it done anywhere in world?
 
To be realistic to keep Asian elephants in a more northern climate does require quite a sizeable elephant house. Some real zoos do manage to successfully keep elephants in wintery weather but there are not that many to be honest that I know of. In the UK we have a rather mild winter climate with no elephants up in the far north where considerable cold weather can occur. However I think Kolmarden Zoo in Sweden would be the furthest north zoo I can find that keeps Asian elephants but looking at climate records it doesn't look that cold in the winters.

For cold weather zoos I would look at Moscow zoo which I have absolutely no clue about whether welfare is a consideration or the Calgary zoo in Canada. The calgary zoo does experience harsh winters where the asian elephants managed to last a couple years before being sent elsewhere, I would personally draw the line around this climate for north america at least. Calgary does have a large indoor building for its african animals but welfare was considered to be poor for the elephants.

Another zoo would be the oregon zoo which is well known for its large (26,000m2 roughly) and successful Asian elephant habitat. The elephant house here is roughly one quarter of the size of the habitat where elephants do live through the winter here by choice, while the zoo does enjoy a temperate temperature it does experience some cold snowy days. The building itself would be the size of a 4000m2 habitat.

Regarding the tolerance of Asian elephants for cold tolerance, the oregon zoo does have an article which states:
"When temperatures do drop below freezing, the herd often goes outside for short periods of time. This is especially true on snow days, when the elephants can be seen venturing out to explore, sometimes choosing to spend time under the heated shelters located throughout their habitat. Though they're not usually outside in these temperatures for more than a short time, their care staff says they enjoy these rare snowy experiences."

Alright so in game elephants should be able to tolerate up to a northern taiga climate with plenty of heated indoor spaces or covered shelters, tundra is out of bounds as it is simply unethical to keep elephants that far north in such cold conditions. Maybe woolly mammoths but not Asian elephants 🤣
 
Elephants can tolerate temperatures as low as 5° C. Anything below is harmful for them. So for outdoor only habitat you can follow PZ minimum required temperature 8° C, which is a bit higher, but reasonable. No one is going to risk. Just find any place on map, where temperatures dont go below this number, if you want your elephants to walk around habitat,
Minimum indoor space is apparently as small as:
1687112023699.png

So not much.
If you are looking at something like ,,Pleistocene Park,, with elephants i would recommend different ecosystem. For example interglacial central europe or southern california.
 
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I was looking for European focus, so I guess I'll have to bring it a bit more south 😁
Based on Captain Callum's Analysis, you can use the Fallow Deer's Range in the Zoopedia as Reference. I think that's a good Reference Point in this case. You could perhaps exceed that a tiny bit.
 
Okay, to not make whole different topic for rhinos:

I just checked in game and it seems that minimal temp for White Rhinos is 13°C. I also see that Oregon zoo holds Black Rhinos.

Would it be fair assumption that whichever park can hold Asian Elephants will be able to keep Black Rhinos as well?
 
Based on Captain Callum's Analysis, you can use the Fallow Deer's Range in the Zoopedia as Reference. I think that's a good Reference Point in this case. You could perhaps exceed that a tiny bit.
Sorry I meant Red Deer. You can take this Map as reference, including Light Green.

Okay, to not make whole different topic for rhinos:

I just checked in game and it seems that minimal temp for White Rhinos is 13°C. I also see that Oregon zoo holds Black Rhinos.

Would it be fair assumption that whichever park can hold Asian Elephants will be able to keep Black Rhinos as well?
I think that's not the actual Minimum. It's just the minimum where they still have full welfare. Temperature mechanic is a bit more complex than that in the game. Oregon has mild winters, but Toronto Zoo has Indian Rhinos if I am not mistaken. So you can assume the same Map we chose for Elephants, given they both have ample Indoor Space. I think the main reason why weather related Welfare becomes a big issue for real zoos is the Financial Limitations they have for large Indoor Habitats. In PZ you can give them a big Indoor Habitat with all Enrichment and Feeders inside and then access to an Outside Paddock. They will use it when the weather allows them. Just make sure the Heaters don't warm the outside. Taiga Maps in the game very often get temperatures over 13 C, so they'll be able to use the Outside Paddock quite often.
 
Best practice guidelines for the three in-game rhinoceros species from the EAZA give these as the minimum temperatures:

White rhinoceros - Should not be allowed to remain outside 24 hours at temperatures below 12 degrees Celsius; in sunny conditions they can be outdoors to temperatures of 5 degrees.
Black rhinoceros - Should not be allowed outdoors at all below temperatures of -5 degrees Celsius. In sunny conditions they can be outdoors for long periods to 10 degrees.
Indian rhinoceros - Can go outdoors in temperatures below freezing, but should not be allowed out for longer than 30 minutes at such temperatures.
 
Okay, to not make whole different topic for rhinos:

I just checked in game and it seems that minimal temp for White Rhinos is 13°C. I also see that Oregon zoo holds Black Rhinos.

Would it be fair assumption that whichever park can hold Asian Elephants will be able to keep Black Rhinos as well?
My childhood zoo, the Detroit Zoo, has rhinos (not sure if they are white or black tbh), but ended up getting rid of the elephants. Winters get cold up there, but the biggest issue if i recall correctly was that the concrete in an the elephant house was very bad for their feet and caused arthritis, so having to keep them inside was bad for them in a way it wasn't for the rhinos.

Here's the statement they put out about the elephants, might add some context to keeping elephants in colder areas.

 
This thread made me fall into the Oregon Zoo rabbithole. I don't think I ever saw better zoo in my life. From habitats to staff care 🤯
 
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My childhood zoo, the Detroit Zoo, has rhinos (not sure if they are white or black tbh), but ended up getting rid of the elephants. Winters get cold up there, but the biggest issue if i recall correctly was that the concrete in an the elephant house was very bad for their feet and caused arthritis, so having to keep them inside was bad for them in a way
Good point, this exactly ties up to what i said here:
I think the main reason why weather related Welfare becomes a big issue for real zoos is the Financial Limitations they have for large Indoor Habitats.
 
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