Elite Dangerous Community Schedule W/C 29 November 2021

[rootsrat]

He talks about consequences and real gameplay (way beyond the current placeholder/tech demo style). I passionately support this idea, even though I realise that this will most likely remain a dream forever. If something like this ever comes to fruition, it will sweep all competitors off their perch.

If anyone needs to justify themselves here, it's you and why you're obviously not interested in real and compelling game design.

Where did I say I am not interested in that? Please quote the relevant bit from my post.

All I said was - in my later post where I clarified - that people probably should stop presenting their opinions as facts. I think the level of duscission would then really incrase, in a good way. It's not the first time I suggested that either.

 

[Riverside]

I've been out in the black for literally over a year now. if i didn't do a lot of exploring. I wouldn't have a deep understanding of how little effort went into the role and how much of a joke even calling it a game mechanic it is. Exploration is literally wasting time on the off chance you'll discover something fdev hid in the game ...and otherwise means absolutely nothing. your efforts convert to credits and has no independent meaning or purpose from trade or bounties. There's no skill, no risk. Just repetitive button pressing after repetitive button pressing and uneventful waiting after uneventful wait to repeat the process. You might as well be watching a screensaver and getting credits for staying logged in.

Any activity done to excess (which will vary subjectively) is going to get repetitive. My longest period of wandering about going places & looking at things was about 18 months (in a 19ly Corvette, took it to Beagle Point), including a 3 week period wandering around the Colonia bubble (still exploring, but in civilised space). I have spent most of 2021 exploring on board carriers, a more social activity but with more choices than only wandering about looking at things. Mining for Tritium breaks up the monotony, so does the option to use different ships.

One of the issues with exploring is that the point at which you get bored & want to do something else can be at the furthest point you reach from civilisation, and over the years I have watched many players on my friend list venture out into the black with dreams of adventure only to log in less & less and eventually stop playing, unable to decide between suiciding back & losing all that accumulated data & tags, and the long flight back home.

Carriers, especially someone elses' carrier addresses almost all of those issues. You have more to do, a social circle to help maintain motivation, and if you get bored just dock & wait for the Carrier Pilot to take you home.

 

[Darth Ender]

I don't know, it sounded like you were making that quite definitive. "It should be like that, otherwise it's not fun" kinda.

Maybe you should word it differently, like "I wish exploration was" rather than "It should be" - it wouldn't sound so entitled then. You presented it almost like it was a fact, not an opinion.

if you want to be pedantic, and i generally like to be when it suits me ... he was asking me how exploration should be.

I describe it as such, without the preface of "in my opinion" because that's redundant. everything related to suggestions or how things should be or ought to work or what the game needs are opinions. instead of adding that to nearly every post in the forum, i find it easier to annotate those things I'd consider objective facts with references if need be. But usually that need doesn't exist because these kinds of discussions have no hope of making any difference ..they're just to live and die in the forum.

 

[Darth Ender]

Any activity done to excess (which will vary subjectively) is going to get repetitive. My longest period of wandering about going places & looking at things was about 18 months (in a 19ly Corvette, took it to Beagle Point), including a 3 week period wandering around the Colonia bubble (still exploring, but in civilised space). I have spent most of 2021 exploring on board carriers, a more social activity but with more choices than only wandering about looking at things. Mining for Tritium breaks up the monotony, so does the option to use different ships.

One of the issues with exploring is that the point at which you get bored & want to do something else can be at the furthest point you reach from civilisation, and over the years I have watched many players on my friend list venture out into the black with dreams of adventure only to log in less & less and eventually stop playing, unable to decide between suiciding back & losing all that accumulated data & tags, and the long flight back home.

Carriers, especially someone elses' carrier addresses almost all of those issues. You have more to do, a social circle to help maintain motivation, and if you get bored just dock & wait for the Carrier Pilot to take you home.

The reason why so many of those players burn themselves out though is the same reason why gambling games are addictive despite being usually the most basic boring games. You're told things are hidden... interesting things that you could be the first person to see... in a game that has nothing interesting going on anywhere else so you go in search for it. But you have no way of knowing if the next jump is the one you'll make your discovery in. There is no game mechanic to master to know ...it's just potentially out there. And once you've invested some time in going far enough away where you think you have a chance of being the first person in the area ...you get the need to keep doing it to justify the cost. and eventually the cost of stopping is seemingly higher than continuing but you've given up hope that there's any point in continuing. So you just stop playing.

That's less of a statement about the player ...than it is about the role itself. Because what is the role at all in just small bouts? It's still nothing but screenshots and not really wanting to play. It's still effectively a non-role way to get participation credits. That's not really touching on the potential for what exploration could be to the game. That's literally doing the least you can possibly do in implementing exploration in a game.

 

[Riverside]

That's less of a statement about the player

It's about the player If I get bored of an activity, no matter how objectively exciting or challenging it is, I do something else. If you are bored with the way you are currently playing, one one of the advantages of ED's relatively unconnected playstyles is that you can simply not do something you don't want to do (at all or any more). But you can also combine several activities & do them all together. Most of my exploration data has been gathered with the intention of supporting factions for example. I usually have a larger goal than simply jumping to the next system to see what's there.

 

[Darth Ender]

It's about the player If I get bored of an activity, no matter how objectively exciting or challenging it is, I do something else. If you are bored with the way you are currently playing, one one of the advantages of ED's relatively unconnected playstyles is that you can simply not do something you don't want to do (at all or any more). But you can also combine several activities & do them all together. Most of my exploration data has been gathered with the intention of supporting factions for example. I usually have a larger goal than simply jumping to the next system to see what's there.

that doesn't address the role .. you're just suggesting doing something else or supplementing it with other roles to hide the issues with exploration. That's a fine workaround. ..but hardly the point of conversation. One doesn't get bored of exploration because they've mastered it or are too good. It's not a fault of the player exceeding the design of the developer (ignoring the fact that i'm stating that the design is one of not putting any real effort in designing a mechanic around the role) or the player being an outlier among the playerbase.

 

[LKx]

I got a pit in my stomach that they'll tell us that console development is canceled...

No way.
Consoles will get Odyssey by may 2022 at the latest. In whichever condition it is by then.
You should know why.

 

[zimms]

please let the exploration stream just be 1.5 hours of charging frame shift drive loading screens, honking and clicking on fuzzy blobs and then firing at planets after long periods of travelling to them ...landing every now and then and scanning a non-interactive plant by staring at it (after additional long periods of traveling to them).

maybe if everyone realizes how ridiculous exploration is and how it's not a role consisting of any actual gameplay leveraging any conscious thought or ability - someone at fdev will do something to improve it.

I assume it will be more like a tourism stream.

Oooh a Raxxla!

Errr, where is it please?

You've had it all along!

 

[Darth Ender]

You've had it all along!

I'd totally tune in if they spent an entire live stream just going over the first post of that one guy's conspiracy post about r_xxla. That would be some ancient alien level gold

 

[Mark Zero]

I'd have no problem with the idea that exploration is a marathon and not as risky as i'd prefer... if it involved skill and the effort mattered to the game. It would at least then be a game mechanic and a real role. So far, the only justification i've heard for exploration is screenshots and not really wanting to play a game.

Sounds to me like you should be doing something other than exploration, then. Unless your concept of "exploring" is just complaining about it. Exploration at its root is always going to be "go out into space and look for stuff", because that's what exploring is. And I have a sneaking suspicion that even if exploration were changed exactly the way you want it to, you'd get bored of it again as soon as you acclimated to it.

If you are unsatisfied with the core concept of it, no amount of hooking it into the BGS or having stellar flares blow up your ship during fuel scooping is going to magically make it appealing to you for longer than the length of time it takes for you to get used to it.

 

[Bigmaec]

This discussion is deviating from the real reason for the meet-up.
Concentrate on the Panther Clipper CMDRs

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

Hey there, there's no need to be concerned at the lack of a normal development update - we're moving into the holiday season, and the dev team will be taking a well-earned rest over the usual holiday period, as most people do around the world. Work will of course continue before and after the break.

... except on the console version of Odyssey, amiright?!

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

Mondays should remain the dark blank depressing hole it always is because it makes the rest of the week feel better. However, if you're feeling sad this monday, this should cheer you up : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...e-radio-and-the-loose-screws-podcasts.594293/

We'll keep dark blank and depressing for us consoleers if you don't mind. Monday is already the regular Odyssey console development update...

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

So there was something on Monday after all

Elite Dangerous: Cyber Monday 2021 Event is LIVE

Greetings Commanders! Happy Monday...CYBER MONDAY no less and there's a familiar treat in store. Swooping in to join the fleet of Black Friday offerings from last week, some absolute favourites have arrived - 'STYGIAN' paint jobs for all ships and vehicles are now LIVE as part of our Cyber...

forums.frontier.co.uk

No mentions of Consoles on either post though - you guys are gonna be in so much trouble

LOL something something misfortune of others heh heh heh

 

[LeoBartlet]

Someone is in need of an egg in this trying time.

 

[Darth Ender]

Sounds to me like you should be doing something other than exploration, then. Unless your concept of "exploring" is just complaining about it. Exploration at its root is always going to be "go out into space and look for stuff", because that's what exploring is.

nobody is saying it shouldn't involve going out and looking at things. The difference is I think there should be gameplay involved in doing that in a primary role such as exploration in a space combat / trader type game like elite dangerous is. There would be tiers of difficulty and risk ...so it wouldn't alienate casual players, but that would scale the rewards appropriately. There could be a way to identify more risky / difficult systems to explore than others - allowing you to avoid them or not. Likewise for scooping, there would be safer stars and safer ways to scoop for casual players, but it would be like scooping at a slow rate of your scoop. Scooping at the full potentials of your scoop would put you in the new experience.

And I have a sneaking suspicion that even if exploration were changed exactly the way you want it to, you'd get bored of it again as soon as you acclimated to it.

how? Sounds like some convenient handwavium on your part. The changes I want would include BGS impacts that are unique to exploration and potentially persistent. Bubble expansion would require exploration and only be possible via exploration. That would also trigger other bgs events that cater to other roles to complete. That's a meaningful and valuable reward for exploration that doesn't lose value by doing it a lot because it's always potentially going to lead to something different and doesn't just get converted to a currency that has no real value anymore and no effect that reflects anything that you did being special or specific to your actions.

Combined with environmental hazards and such things....exploration becomes (if you choose the more challenging and thus rewarding systems) one of the most exciting roles the game has outside of maybe thargoid combat and powerplay when we thought that thing mattered. The rewards become important and more than just aesthetic in nature or entirely optional and interchangeable with what you do in trade or combat.

If you are unsatisfied with the core concept of it, no amount of hooking it into the BGS or having stellar flares blow up your ship during fuel scooping is going to magically make it appealing to you for longer than the length of time it takes for you to get used to it.

you've defined the core concept as "looking at pretty things" and that's not changing. I'm suggesting adding a game mechanic to the role (a role which currently has none). Which is far more than just adding a time sink. I'm not fdev... my suggestions aren't "make the player click on a button 100 times repetitively to get 100 of that thing so it takes time to do it instead of just letting them type 100 in" and such things. This isn't about making the player's actions take longer. It's about making what the player is doing actually matter.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Consoles and Ender, This thread had no chance.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

The changes I want would include BGS impacts that are unique to exploration and potentially persistent. Bubble expansion would require exploration and only be possible via exploration. That would also trigger other bgs events that cater to other roles to complete.

@Darth Ender sounds interesting... Do you have a post in the Suggestions sub that I can read and potentially upvote? I hear it's what the Devs read on a Sunday morning over their traditional bacon and peanut butter toasties.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Listen up everyone.

This constant bickering about who plays the game on which platform will get you banned from posting in the threads that you post that rubbish.

We all play the game and that is what the forum is about - to discuss the game.

Please just do that.

Edit:
Also please note: Everyone can post in any thread - so don't come complaining that "player of platform Z is posting in platform XYZ's area".
You cannot exclude forum members from posting on the forums.

 

[SasaThargoidsHunter]

Listen up everyone.

This constant bickering about who plays the game on which platform will get you banned from posting in the threads that you post that rubbish.

We all play the game and that is what the forum is about - to discuss the game.

Please just do that.

Edit:
Also please note: Everyone can post in any thread - so don't come complaining that "player of platform Z is posting in platform XYZ's area".
You cannot exclude forum members from posting on the forums.

Agreed.