Elite Dangerous: Horizons and Future Updates

NeilF

NeilF
Tinman said:
First of all...we don't actually know anything yet...

However, I assume the issue here is just the enormous effort that would be required for the servers to keep track of every single individual POI in the game both in space and on the ground if all of them had to be synced and updated across for all players. I can see a middle ground where a planets yield slowly decreases over time depending on how many people fly around there, but I'm very much sceptical about that level of detail in regards to individual POI.

The locations doesn't have to be random BTW (unless we are talking about mobile encounters like patrols). Just like locations in Minecraft or NMS aren't random since they are based of a static seed.
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Indeed! We're all guessing at the moment... :)

If FD can keep track of exploration data for every object (moon/planet/star etc). eg: Who discovered what etc. I'm sure keeping track of some planet side information (a subset of them) shouldn't be too hard? ie: What bases/wrecks/minerals exist where? And these can be adjusted accordingly and/or by weekly cycles? ie: A base might be gone after X weeks.

I truly hope bases/objects/minerals don't come across as obviously "random" and instead at least give the illusion of persistence and part of a living breathing universe.

Because if you spot a base, and it's gone in a few hours when you return with friends, that will be a real shame. And likewise if minerals just disappear on return too?

I'm fearful we'll get the "lesser solution"... But if we getting something better (more intelligent) that will bode well for the future of ED IMHO because we need bigger broader mechanics...
 
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Tinman

Tinman
NeilF said:
Because if "things" just appear clearly at random, that's hardly giving a sense of a living breathing universe, with nice deep interwoven mechanics! Instead it gives the sense of a bunch of dice being rolled.


Until we have broad intelligent mechanics, with persistent objects/NPCs and effects, ED will feel "empty" IMHO.

Consider two similar scenarios...

Scenario 1
You go to a planet and scan it. Up pops "Pirate Base". You attack it and get some CR based reward. You know full well, if you hadn't of attacked it, and come back 5 minutes later, it would be gone. The dice would have rolled a different number.

Scenario 2
You enter a system, and notice a Wanted ship heading towards a remote moon. You follow and see it disappear down on to the surface. You scan and pick up a base. Do don't want to risk attacking yourself, so later that day you return with two of your friend to attack it, only to find another group of CMDRs already attacking it. Do you leave? Do you attack the CMDRs?



Ideally we want to see a more living breathing universe with balanced/interwoven persistent mechanics & objects, and not a bunch of localised mini-games offered by the roll of a dice.
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I don't find scenario 1 very plausible for a couple of reasons.

One is that in space we already have both static (and semi-static) POI (stations, RES, nav beacons, CZ...) and randomly spawned encounters (USS). On planets structures like starports/bases will probably be static POI. Potentially smaller bases could eventually be removed though if enough people have blown them up...

In space structures could potentially be randomly placed (they aren't though), but on a terrain that isn't even possible to begin with. If they were truly randomly placed then they could end up on the top of an unclimbable mountain or against a cliff. The placement of structures needs to take the terrain into account anyway which means that their placement is probably static based on terrain rules.

Remember that them saying that smaller points of interest won't be detectable until you get close enough doesn't mean they aren't permanent. It just means that you can't detect them until you get close enough. Just like how a particular terrain feature won't be "detectable" until you get close enough to actually see it. The terrain will still be the same everytime you go there.

I still expect some spawned random encounters while down on the surface though just like in other open world games, but that isn't the same thing as structures.
 
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NeilF

NeilF
Tinman said:
I don't find scenario 1 very plausible for a couple of reasons.

One is that in space we already have both static (and semi-static) POI (stations, RES, nav beacons, CZ...) and randomly spawned encounters (USS). On planets structures like starports/bases will probably be static POI. Potentially smaller bases could eventually be removed though if enough people have blown them up...

In space structures could potentially be randomly placed (they aren't though), but on a terrain that isn't even possible to begin with. If they were truly randomly placed then they could end up on the top of an unclimbable mountain or against a cliff. The placement of structures needs to take the terrain into account anyway which means that their placement is probably static based on terrain rules.

Remember that them saying that smaller points of interest won't be detectable until you get close enough doesn't mean they aren't permanent structures. It just means that you can't detect them until you get close enough. Just like how a particular terrain feature won't be "detectable" until you get close enough to actually see it. The terrain will still be the same everyone you go there.

I still expect some spawned random encounters while down on the surface though just like in other open world games, but that isn't the same thing as structures.
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Fingers crossed you're right. That at least the mechanics behind bases "feel" realistic. ie: That they take time to "appear" and/or are not too transitory.

It could well be, as you point out, they are simply a perminent fixture/location on some planets... Which although better than "random" may still end up feeling somewhat "fake".



As for minerals? It would be nice if these, once found/located, are persistent and can be returned to and used/mined. It would be horrible if they are akin to a USS.

And FD have of course created a rod for their own backs in this department; So you find a lovely lump of minerals to mine. You mark it, protect it and you and your friends come and mine it. But you notice it's depleating at an alarming rate. That's because another group of folks are happily carting it off in SOLO/GROUP mode. The stuff is quite literally just disappearing infront of you... This issue is unfortunately a fundamental issue that is ED' achilles heel which it may never recover from :(

If we want nice solid interweaving mechanics, how can these truly exist when the "effects" are caused by invisible/untouchable CMDRs? This comes back to haunt us over and over... And often it feels the game is being held back because of it :(

You have to wonder what a different experience we might have if a game slot was OPEN or SOLO/GROUP, and that was it forever. And these were played in two disparate instances. FD wouldn't then be "compromising" so many of their mechanics then I feel.
 
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Barking_Mad

Barking_Mad
Small update:


  • Lead designer Mike Evans said here in relation to the buggy having Newtonion physics, that "it's safe to say the Newtonian crowd might be pleased with the aerial capabilities of the buggy."
  • Lead Designed Mike Evans said here that the SRV's steering wheels would most likely be in the centre of the vehicle. (as they wouldn't be on the left of right of the vehicle).
 
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Fishy

Fishy
Any info about whether planetary surfaces will be continuous? Like will you be able to SRV-drive from a place to another? Or will each 'place of interest' be an instanced bubble requiring orbital supercruise to teleport into like the current in-system model?
 

Barking_Mad

Barking_Mad
Fishy said:
Any info about whether planetary surfaces will be continuous? Like will you be able to SRV-drive from a place to another? Or will each 'place of interest' be an instanced bubble requiring orbital supercruise to teleport into like the current in-system model?
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As far as we know it will be continuous. It will load the terrain as you drive about, but it would not mean waiting whilst this happens. Having the scenery 'pop up' as you drive around is the biggest challenge (in my non-expert opinion).
 

Fishy

Fishy
Barking_Mad said:
As far as we know it will be continuous. It will load the terrain as you drive about, but it would not mean waiting whilst this happens. Having the scenery 'pop up' as you drive around is the biggest challenge (in my non-expert opinion).
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Well, fingers crossed i guess.
 

Tinman

Tinman
Fishy said:
Any info about whether planetary surfaces will be continuous? Like will you be able to SRV-drive from a place to another? Or will each 'place of interest' be an instanced bubble requiring orbital supercruise to teleport into like the current in-system model?
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That's not how the current in-system model works...

You can drop out anywhere and then slow boat towards stations or other POI (asteroid belts, nav beacons, stations, res sites, combat zones...) and still see them and players/NPCs around them anyway. The one exception is the random encounters (USS) you come across in supercruise which you do need to drop directly into to trigger the spawn.

Instances are who you are connected too, not the geographical space inside a system.
 
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Barking_Mad

Barking_Mad
Tinman said:
That's not how the current in-system model works...

You can drop out anywhere and then slow boat towards stations or other POI (asteroid belts, nav beacons, stations, res sites, combat zones...) and still see them and players/NPCs around them anyway. The one exception is the random encounters (USS) you come across in supercruise which you do need to drop directly into to trigger the spawn.

Instances are who you are connected too, not the geographical space inside a system.
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You really need a copy and pasted version saved in notepad to save you the trouble :)
 

Fishy

Fishy
Tinman said:
That's not how the current in-system model works...

You can drop out anywhere and then slow boat towards stations or other POI (asteroid belts, nav beacons, stations, res sites, combat zones...) and still see them and players/NPCs around them anyway. The one exception is the random encounters (USS) you come across in supercruise which you do need to drop directly into to trigger the spawn.

Instances are who you are connected too, not the geographical space inside a system.
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Good to know. Had seen failed experiment threads ages ago, maybe that was during beta.
 

Tinman

Tinman
Fishy said:
Good to know. Had seen failed experiment threads ages ago, maybe that was during beta.
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Early in development there was times where the station wouldn't appear correctly due to bugs yes, but every-time I've tested these thing lately they have worked just fine for me.

This is of course the danger of developing a game in the open. Early videos of weird bugs will still exists on YouTube for people to find and get the wrong idea from.
 
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piugattuk

piugattuk
  • There has been discussion at FDev about player built structures, but that is no guarantee they will be in the game at some point.
  • ​
tumblr_nd91voSZ8Z1sjbr2bo1_400.gif
 

Alien

Alien
piugattuk said:
  • There has been discussion at FDev about player built structures, but that is no guarantee they will be in the game at some point.
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Player built structures should NOT be in any Elite game ... ever.
Not only is it 100% against what the Elite games have always been, but the ones shouting for player built structures/player owned stations etc ... are not even 1% of the playerbase.
 
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