Elite: Dangerous is seriously underrated

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Are you not able to make a reasonable assumption of the definition?
If you do, without knowing a bit more, you could be jumping to conclusions.

Every time I have seen similar discussions, each player comes up with its own definition, and most of them vary. Competition can be defined not only on specific features but also on audience, money access, more generally game theme, and a large etc of other dimensions.

Elite certainly has competition. Maybe not just the one that OP is thinking of, or very personally defining.

So before trying to jump to conclusions with a randomly chosen "definition" I prefer to understand better where the poster is coming from.
 
If you do you without knowing a bit more you could be jumping to conclusions.

Every time I have seen similar discussions, each player comes up with its own definition, and most of them vary. Competition can be defined not only on specific features but also on audience, money access, more generally game theme, and a large etc of other simensions.

There is certainly competition for Elite. Maybe not just the one that OP is thinking of, or very personally defining.

So before trying to jumpo to conclusions with a randomly chosen "definition" I prefer to understand better where the poster is coming from.
What's wrong with the guy just giving an opinion? If you want to justify your own opinion go ahead, others don't need to endlessly justify theirs.
 
Absolutely nothing wrong. I just would like to understand it better. If you do not that is fine aswell, knock yourself out.
I think you're just trolling the thread Viajero. ED is a good game, we all like it (or want to like it) but most of us can see that it has fallen short of expectations. You are trying to be divisive and defensive rather than looking for common ground.

It doesn't matter whether you think those expectations are justified, people are just saying what they think with a greater or lesser degree of justification.

I like this game, I only wish there were more of it. I paid for more of it (not less), and I am still waiting.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Could you name a few games that can be considered competition to ED?
Well, that would mean discussing what I consider to be competition to Elite, which may not be what you or Sunleader consider competition. Not my intent at all at this stage I am afraid.

I just want to understand Sunleader´s view of what is competition for Elite as he was the one originally saying it does not have any, and I am curious to understand why that is. Once that is more clear then we can revisit your question if it becomes relevant to the discussion.
 
Well, that would mean discussing what I consider to be competition to Elite, which may not be what you or Sunleader consider competition. Not my intent at all at this stage I am afraid.

I just want to understand Sunleader´s view of what is competition for Elite as he was the one originally saying it does not have any, and I am curious to understand why that is. Once that is more clear then we can revisit your question if it becomes relevant to the discussion.
With all respect, if you make an assertion like "Elite certainly has competition.", then please be ready to support assertions like that with factual arguments, because otherwise they could be considered trolling.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
With all respect, if you make an assertion like "Elite certainly has competition.", then please be ready to support assertions like that with factual arguments, because otherwise they could be considered trolling.
I am not trolling, but I would much rather wait until Sunleader responds to my original question, if he wants to of course. And then continue the discussion on that basis. Just bear with me until that happens, if it happens.
 
What you're talking about is EVE, ED will never be that. That being said, it sure as hell needs fleshing out for damn sure
EVE is a very Different kind of Game.

What do you mean exactly by lack of competition?
Well. I mean exactly that.
Currently Elite Dangerous has rather little Competition right now.
Or rather. So far it has absolutely no Competition at all.


Now for the Definition I am not really that Picky.
Anyone is Free to make his own Definition.
But in General currently there is no Game that Cuts into the Niche where Elite Dangerous is Sitting.

Now the few Games commonly Mentioned.
EVE Online does not offer Direct Ship Control. Its not a Game for Pilots.
Star Citizen might be Serious Competition when it ever gets Finished.
X4 Foundations is Single Player.

And there the List of Potential Competition really Ends.


And here is the thing.
Each of these Games.
Actually is vastly Superior to Elite Dangerous on the Aspect of the Gameworld actually feeling Unique and Alive.
Each of these Games. Despite their Gameworld being massively Smaller. Actually manages to have a far more Interesting World than Elite Dangerous :)

(Oh by the way since we are with Definitions. I Define the Gameworld of a Game as the Games entire Background. So its not just about the Map but about the entire World of that Game. So what is the Player allowed to Do. What is the Player allowed to possess, What kind of Story and Politics are going on in the World, How much Live is in the World that is not dependent on the Player, How does Technology and Physics Work etc etc etc.)
 
EVE is a very Different kind of Game.



Well. I mean exactly that.
Currently Elite Dangerous has rather little Competition right now.
Or rather. So far it has absolutely no Competition at all.


Now for the Definition I am not really that Picky.
Anyone is Free to make his own Definition.
But in General currently there is no Game that Cuts into the Niche where Elite Dangerous is Sitting.

Now the few Games commonly Mentioned.
EVE Online does not offer Direct Ship Control. Its not a Game for Pilots.
Star Citizen might be Serious Competition when it ever gets Finished.
X4 Foundations is Single Player.

And there the List of Potential Competition really Ends.


And here is the thing.
Each of these Games.
Actually is vastly Superior to Elite Dangerous on the Aspect of the Gameworld actually feeling Unique and Alive.
Each of these Games. Despite their Gameworld being massively Smaller. Actually manages to have a far more Interesting World than Elite Dangerous :)

(Oh by the way since we are with Definitions. I Define the Gameworld of a Game as the Games entire Background. So its not just about the Map but about the entire World of that Game. So what is the Player allowed to Do. What is the Player allowed to possess, What kind of Story and Politics are going on in the World, How much Live is in the World that is not dependent on the Player, How does Technology and Physics Work etc etc etc.)
My thoughts on why it has no competition: It has been around in one form or another for thirty something years. It was unique and awesome when it first came out in the 80's, and it has evolved thru several versions since then, getting bigger and more complex each time. This is just the current version of a game that has been around for a long time. Is there anyone else out there doing anything remotely similar who can claim all of the above?

And from a business perspective, if your business has grown like FDev's has over such a long period of time it means they have a good business model. What a lot of people don't realise is that running a business is not easy. The vast majority of new businesses fail in their first year. You can have all the talent in the world for crafting games but still fail miserably in business. In fact because of the failure rate of small businesses, odds are you will fail!

So yeah, they ain't got no competition, and I am not sure they will for a heckuva long time, if ever.

Just as well I love the product and am very, very happy playing it.
 
I actually think that Elite Dangerous is heavily Overrated.

Dont get me wrong there.
Its nice that the Ship in this Game can effectively go wherever it wants.

But if everything is the same with little to nothing to do where you go.
Then the whole Deal is Off.


Elite Dangerous tries to be a Gigantic Sandbox.
But the Box is the Size of Public Swimming Pool. While the Sand in it is barely enough to Fill a Bathtube...


Thats what they got by having the whole thing Random Generated.
A Random Generated World can be Endless in Size. But as anything Generated by it is Limited by the Parameters you Input into the Random Generator. You will end up with an Endless World that is more or less the same wherever you go.

Thats why using a World Generator is only useful when you use it to Create a Base for the World and then Fill that World with Handcrafted Elements that make each part of it Unique.
But in ED this is Impossible. The Generated World is just too Large for anyone to even Dream about Filling it with Handcrafted Elements and making each part Unique. Even Dreaming about just making 1% of the World Unique by Handcrafting Content for it would be entirely Insane.

For Elite Dangerous the only way to be an Interesting Game is to Abandon the World and instead Focus on Ships and Empire Building.
Player Owned Stations, Fleets and Clans, Proper Wars about Territory instead of Generic Conflict Zones, Fleshed out Planets including Planetary Settlements and Proper World Design, Larger Ships that are more than Oversized Fighters, Proper Crew Mechanics, Ship Interior and Space Legs, Proper Ground Vehicles, Proper and more Diverse Weapon Systems which are not Defaulted to 1 out of 3 Systems.

Instead of Focusing on the World. Where even 20 Years of Work will remain a Droplet in the oversized Bucket. They should Try and Improve the Detailed Systems of the Game to Give Players something to do in this Sandbox.
This Oversized but Empty World is the First Time in History that a Game actually has a World where it could Allow Players and Clans to Own entire Star Systems and Stations in a Multiplayer Game. Without having to Worry that the Game World will be Spammed to Death by Player Owned Structures due to there being too many Player Structures in a too Small World.


But FD isnt doing any of this.
FD instead is absolutely Determined to Focus on their Giant Dead World Instead. And keep adding Fractions of Droplets to the Bucket hoping that one day they might reach a Droplet Big enough make a difference.

And thats why this Game is Overrated.
Everyone tries to Sell this Game by mentioning its Gigantic World.
While Leisurely Ignoring that this World is basicly just a Gigantic Piece of Copypasted RNG Solar Systems which ultimately all look roughly the same after a month or two playing this Game.
There's plenty to do. I just took up mining. Blew up my first asteroid full of diamonds. Made a small fortune, enough to A rate another module on my annie. Once I have A rated everything then I'm gonna get Horizons and do a bit of engineering. Then I'm gonna wing up with some fellow righteous commanders and hunt down all the griefers and Judge Dredd their asses!

I actually think that Elite Dangerous is heavily Overrated.

Dont get me wrong there.
Its nice that the Ship in this Game can effectively go wherever it wants.

But if everything is the same with little to nothing to do where you go.
Then the whole Deal is Off.


Elite Dangerous tries to be a Gigantic Sandbox.
But the Box is the Size of Public Swimming Pool. While the Sand in it is barely enough to Fill a Bathtube...


Thats what they got by having the whole thing Random Generated.
A Random Generated World can be Endless in Size. But as anything Generated by it is Limited by the Parameters you Input into the Random Generator. You will end up with an Endless World that is more or less the same wherever you go.

Thats why using a World Generator is only useful when you use it to Create a Base for the World and then Fill that World with Handcrafted Elements that make each part of it Unique.
But in ED this is Impossible. The Generated World is just too Large for anyone to even Dream about Filling it with Handcrafted Elements and making each part Unique. Even Dreaming about just making 1% of the World Unique by Handcrafting Content for it would be entirely Insane.

For Elite Dangerous the only way to be an Interesting Game is to Abandon the World and instead Focus on Ships and Empire Building.
Player Owned Stations, Fleets and Clans, Proper Wars about Territory instead of Generic Conflict Zones, Fleshed out Planets including Planetary Settlements and Proper World Design, Larger Ships that are more than Oversized Fighters, Proper Crew Mechanics, Ship Interior and Space Legs, Proper Ground Vehicles, Proper and more Diverse Weapon Systems which are not Defaulted to 1 out of 3 Systems.

Instead of Focusing on the World. Where even 20 Years of Work will remain a Droplet in the oversized Bucket. They should Try and Improve the Detailed Systems of the Game to Give Players something to do in this Sandbox.
This Oversized but Empty World is the First Time in History that a Game actually has a World where it could Allow Players and Clans to Own entire Star Systems and Stations in a Multiplayer Game. Without having to Worry that the Game World will be Spammed to Death by Player Owned Structures due to there being too many Player Structures in a too Small World.


But FD isnt doing any of this.
FD instead is absolutely Determined to Focus on their Giant Dead World Instead. And keep adding Fractions of Droplets to the Bucket hoping that one day they might reach a Droplet Big enough make a difference.

And thats why this Game is Overrated.
Everyone tries to Sell this Game by mentioning its Gigantic World.
While Leisurely Ignoring that this World is basicly just a Gigantic Piece of Copypasted RNG Solar Systems which ultimately all look roughly the same after a month or two playing this Game.
Actually the sandbox is pretty big....sorta the size of the galaxy.... which is uh, really big......

I actually think that Elite Dangerous is heavily Overrated.

Dont get me wrong there.
Its nice that the Ship in this Game can effectively go wherever it wants.

But if everything is the same with little to nothing to do where you go.
Then the whole Deal is Off.


Elite Dangerous tries to be a Gigantic Sandbox.
But the Box is the Size of Public Swimming Pool. While the Sand in it is barely enough to Fill a Bathtube...


Thats what they got by having the whole thing Random Generated.
A Random Generated World can be Endless in Size. But as anything Generated by it is Limited by the Parameters you Input into the Random Generator. You will end up with an Endless World that is more or less the same wherever you go.

Thats why using a World Generator is only useful when you use it to Create a Base for the World and then Fill that World with Handcrafted Elements that make each part of it Unique.
But in ED this is Impossible. The Generated World is just too Large for anyone to even Dream about Filling it with Handcrafted Elements and making each part Unique. Even Dreaming about just making 1% of the World Unique by Handcrafting Content for it would be entirely Insane.

For Elite Dangerous the only way to be an Interesting Game is to Abandon the World and instead Focus on Ships and Empire Building.
Player Owned Stations, Fleets and Clans, Proper Wars about Territory instead of Generic Conflict Zones, Fleshed out Planets including Planetary Settlements and Proper World Design, Larger Ships that are more than Oversized Fighters, Proper Crew Mechanics, Ship Interior and Space Legs, Proper Ground Vehicles, Proper and more Diverse Weapon Systems which are not Defaulted to 1 out of 3 Systems.

Instead of Focusing on the World. Where even 20 Years of Work will remain a Droplet in the oversized Bucket. They should Try and Improve the Detailed Systems of the Game to Give Players something to do in this Sandbox.
This Oversized but Empty World is the First Time in History that a Game actually has a World where it could Allow Players and Clans to Own entire Star Systems and Stations in a Multiplayer Game. Without having to Worry that the Game World will be Spammed to Death by Player Owned Structures due to there being too many Player Structures in a too Small World.


But FD isnt doing any of this.
FD instead is absolutely Determined to Focus on their Giant Dead World Instead. And keep adding Fractions of Droplets to the Bucket hoping that one day they might reach a Droplet Big enough make a difference.

And thats why this Game is Overrated.
Everyone tries to Sell this Game by mentioning its Gigantic World.
While Leisurely Ignoring that this World is basicly just a Gigantic Piece of Copypasted RNG Solar Systems which ultimately all look roughly the same after a month or two playing this Game.
Actually it's not all randomly generated, parts of it are handcrafted e.g. Leonard Nimoy station. Looks very different from the other stations. Not sure of the significance if the palm trees tho....

Honestly Said it barely Does anymore.
Nor has Elite Dangerous really Reached the amount of Hours that a Game like this should have Reached.
My ED has 400 Hours in it. Which it had for like 2 Years now. Only going up a few Hours further every 2 or 3 Months.

Dont get me Wrong. I still somehow Cling to the Hope. That one Day FD will Realize just what kind of Opportunity they have under their Fingers.
And Starts to get their Rears Strapped into Working Gears to Finally make something of it.
So I always now and then Check Back in the Forums and the Game to See if something has Changed.
And if they for a Change pay some Attention to the Game Systems instead of the World.
For example by finally giving some Mechanics to Mining Asteroids. And actually doing something to Create Interesting Gameplay in the World instead of trying to improve on the World itself which makes barely any Difference.
I will Tick the Game Up a few Hours again.
But since 90% of their Efforts is still Focused on the World and not on adding any Gameplay to it. The Hours soon stop Ticking again.


Unless Star Citizen against all Odds decides to stop smoking up its area and instead gets to work on actually Realizing a Game.
Elite Dangerous Remains the Biggest Hope for a Proper Space Sim.

But being the Biggest Hope due to Lack of Competition is not really a Complement now is it ?
I think ED is really not the game for you. You need to move on, somewhere out there the perfect game is waiting for you. Your mission is to find that game. Good luck commander, we're all rooting for you!
 
Yeah and I think I heard something about a Forbes report into "financial mismanagement" by the guy in charge of Star Citizen. Was not paying much attention tho, probably because I havn't invested any money in it! Anyone else heard about that?
There are entire threads...
But the financial thing is that allegations were made that kickstarter money may have been diverted to buying a mansion, instead of, you know, making a game...
At least that's my read on it, but like you, I'm not invested and haven't looked deeper than the Forbes report.
 
I think you're just trolling the thread Viajero. ED is a good game, we all like it (or want to like it) but most of us can see that it has fallen short of expectations. You are trying to be divisive and defensive rather than looking for common ground.

It doesn't matter whether you think those expectations are justified, people are just saying what they think with a greater or lesser degree of justification.

I like this game, I only wish there were more of it. I paid for more of it (not less), and I am still waiting.
I paid $40 for the base game and I have spent months playing that. I think I got a lot more than my money's worth!
 
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