Elite Dangerous now on Steam

[tooterfish]

Not "you" per se, but perhaps you need to re-read your own post:

No, I don't. I've said before, I'm arguing from a marketing perspective, not the perspective of players.

BTW: Giving everyone steam keys would mean that also a lot of people who got the game before steam but don't like it would also post reviews on Steam. I think it's reasonable to assume that the ratio remain roughly the same, unless you have some specific explanation why the ratio should change.

See, this is actually a fair argument and far better than the passive aggressive condescension that has been otherwise thrown my way for (yet again) daring to put forward an alternative view.

You're right, that could be the case and I might be being a little overly negative with my prediction.

I'd argue that the ratio of people who have positive views about the game would be higher amongst earlier adopters though, because those people include backers and those who've followed the game from the beginning. Like I said, people who're fans have already bought the game. The ratio of positives from Steam adopters by definition must be lower because it doesn't include this group, it's an entirely new playerbase, and they're likely to be less forgiving of the game's flaws.

 

[Fisker]

I completely agree with Mahddogg, Frontier needs to draw a line in the sand and not give in to the Steam key demanders. Because a) they'll keep complaining even after they got a steam key because they haven't been given one for free from the get-go, and b) They'll do the same thing with the next feature that is new and not part of the initial deal. Like, oh, the paid expansions.

I can hear them already:

"Why is this a paid expansion? It's so vital to the game, it should be included in the base price I paid when I bought the core game!! How is FD messing up this so badly??"

Go on, save this post. I bet you 50 quid that someone's gonna write that line when the planetary landing and FPS expansions are being released.

Yes, more hyperbolic fantasies please, but can you at least elaborate on how people asking for a reasonable gesture that costs Frontier nothing but some work hours, equates to that we will keep "complaining" and demand we get expansion content for free?

It was a reasonable expectation that was handled poorly by Frontier.

 

[salvettic]

No, I don't. I've said before, I'm arguing from a marketing perspective, not the perspective of players.
See, this is actually a fair argument and far better than the passive aggressive condescension that has been otherwise thrown my way for (yet again) daring to put forward an alternative view.

You're right, that could be the case and I might be being a little overly negative with my prediction.

I'd argue that the ratio of people who have positive views about the game would be higher amongst earlier adopters though, because those people include backers and those who've followed the game from the beginning. Like I said, people who're fans have already bought the game. The ratio of positives from Steam adopters by definition must be lower because it doesn't include this group, it's an entirely new playerbase, and they're likely to be less forgiving of the game's flaws.

People who bought the game (and backers) previous to the Steam release should get a key not because if they do the overall ratio would increase, but because they already paid for the product! And many users find Steam a usefull platform for managing all their games (that's my case).

 

[Stigbob]

People who bought the game (and backers) previous to the Steam release should get a key not because if they do the overall ratio would increase, but because they already paid for the product! And many users find Steam a usefull platform for managing all their games (that's my case).

But (and this is the important bit) they didnt pay steam for the product.

 

[Yogen]

I don't appreciate the practice of quietly releasing the game on Steam without making an announcement. It smacks of dishonesty. I will not play a game by such a dishonest company. I will not play the gimped version I got from the company website. Please issue Steam keys to all current owners of the game.

 

[Fisker]

But (and this is the important bit) they didnt pay steam for the product.

No because (and this is the important bit) they couldn't.

 

[salvettic]

But (and this is the important bit) they didnt pay steam for the product.

If (and only IF) there's no way to give STEAM keys to the owners of the game, there should be at least an option to buy the game on STEAM paying only the "Steam quota".

 

[Mystified]

But (and this is the important bit) they didnt pay steam for the product.

How is that in any way relevant when Steam offers Steam keys for Frontier's previous customers free of charge to the devs when they get on Steam?

 

[fearlessfrog]

I just see on Steam that the game got flagged with the MMO tag. Who the hell assigns those tags? I guess the inhabitants run the Asylum??

I know that for some people 'multiplayer' or 'massive multiplayer' can't be distinguished anymore from MMO games as many just seem to play the latter these days.

The tags are assigned by steam users, with the top ones showing up on the store page. Frontier can remove any that are offensive or wrong, but apart from that it's a community feature.

 

[Toumal]

176 of people that also care about small features, of course not everyone wants/needs this...


You have:
- Game listed under Steam
--> Different Folder on your HDD -> extra backup folder
- Shift-Tab Steam Overlay
--> No direct link to community hub, no direct link to the guides
- F12 Screenshot with cloud upload
--> bound to a third party game, so no linking to the game hub
- Counts up my time in-game
--> like you said, not persistent and thats what people also care for (Xfire anyone?)
- Shows my friends I'm playing Elite
--> as third party game -> no direct link to hub again
- Pressing "Elite: Dangerous" loads "Elite: Dangerous Launcher", just like the Steam-purchased copies.
--> Automatic launcher update


It doesn't give you:
- Write a Review
- Wrtie Guides on the hub
- Persistent time in-game
- Easy backup method
- See which friends also own this game
- Link LiveStream, Screenshorts, Artworks to ED Hub
- Direct links to Community Hub and other stuff in steam client

Yes the game is still the same, this is only the answer that there is a difference between add a third-party title to steam or have it on steam itself.

Thank you for a really great list that sums up the "Steam features". I am not being sarcastic there, that really is a good list. I haven't even thought about the hub stuff (never use that thing really, but hey, it IS a differentiating feature for those who do)

Now the question you gotta ask is twofold: 1) Are these things really that important to you? And finally 2) You bought the game on the ED store. Now it has come out on Steam. Why do people think Frontier is a bad company for not immediately giving out a Steam key, when that is not part of what you bought at time of purchase?

If you share your screenshots on the Steam hub, I'll never see them. Post them on elitegalaxy.org or these forums and it's a different story. But you see, just a few posts above someone boldly complained that the game they have been playing is suddenly "gimped" because now it's on Steam.

Tell me, can you say that the benefits you mentioned, which exist entirely within Steam and are all about miniscule features, make the game something that's substantially better than the store version?

Yes, more hyperbolic fantasies please, but can you at least elaborate on how people asking for a reasonable gesture that costs Frontier nothing but some work hours, equates to that we will keep "complaining" and demand we get expansion content for free?

It was a reasonable expectation that was handled poorly by Frontier.

Was the Steam launch handled poorly? Absolutely yes. They should've marketed the shizniz out of this one, AND told people straight away that they haven't decided whether to let people convert their game into a title chained to Steam.

But to answer your question:

Because you did not buy the game on steam, you bought it on the Zaonce store. Just because a few developers have offered the possibility to convert an existing game purchase to one that's tied to Steam doesn't mean you are entitled to this. You have been given a courtesy by a choice few developers and are now demanding, with vigorous clamour, that Frontier extend the same courtesy to you for Elite Dangerous.

So maybe come next week, Frontier will actually give you some means to convert your license into a Steam subscription key ( - that's what they actually are). Or maybe they'll say that there hasn't been enough demand.

I personally hope that all the people who mentioned their entitlement for such a key don't end up getting one. Why? Because they've been stomping their feet like a little child, and developers should not give in to such tantrums. If there's a way for Frontier to hand out keys only to those who remained civil about the whole matter, that would be ideal. It's unlikely, but I can dream...

 

[Stigbob]

No because (and this is the important bit) they couldn't.

If you are not a paying steam customer, steam owe you nothing.

If (and only IF) there's no way to give STEAM keys to the owners of the game, there should be at least an option to buy the game on STEAM paying only the "Steam quota".

That's up to steam (who operate as a business) to decide in consultation with FD.

How is that in any way relevant when Steam offers Steam keys for Frontier's previous customers free of charge to the devs when they get on Steam?

If that's true this whole thread is pointless as steam seem willing to provide keys.

 

[Toumal]

If that's true this whole thread is pointless as steam seem willing to provide keys.

Yes but Frontier has to add in the appropriate support to allow users to tie their existing Elite-account to a new steam subscription. Not a huge amount of work, but work nonetheless. And again, would be nice to have for the folks who want that thing, but there's no obligation on Frontier's part to do this.

 

[Mystified]

If that's true this whole thread is pointless as steam seem willing to provide keys.

The whole point of the thread is asking for those Steam keys, since Frontier needs to request and hand them out ...

Another part of it is that people are surprised they weren't offered one already to begin with, and then even more surprised to see that they hadn't even considered it yet but are only now 'looking into it'.

I highly doubt Frontier wasn't aware of the demand to have their game on Steam as even back during Kickstarter they gave specific answers on that point (which at the time were that they would look at it after launch). Certainly they can't be surprised their fans actually want their game on Steam now that they decided to put it on there? It's not a demand that came out of the blue.

 

[Stigbob]

Yes but Frontier has to add in the appropriate support to allow users to tie their existing Elite-account to a new steam subscription. Not a huge amount of work, but work nonetheless. And again, would be nice to have for the folks who want that thing, but there's no obligation on Frontier's part to do this.

Given the number of threads there are about selling backer rewards FD would just open up a market for selling steam keys, and hurt their own profits.

 

[Sim Maker]

FD should stick to their guns, if you want to buy it from another publisher, you pay for it AGAIN!.....
.
Steam is another Publisher folks.......if a small band cobbles together an music collection and self promotes it and new fans buy it.....great......but, if the band gets picked up by another publisher who re-releases their tracks with extra trimmings and features, NO you do not get a free copy.........
.

 

[Stigbob]

The whole point of the thread is asking for those Steam keys, since Frontier needs to request and hand them out ...

Another part of it is that people are surprised they weren't offered one already to begin with, and then even more surprised to see that they hadn't even considered it yet but are only now 'looking into it'.

I highly doubt Frontier wasn't aware of the demand to have their game on Steam as even back during Kickstarter they gave specific answers on that point (which at the time were that they would look at it after launch). Certainly they can't be surprised their fans actually want their game on Steam now that they decided to put it on there? It's not a demand that came out of the blue.

Given the only difference between ED on steam and off steam is an extra menu to get to the launcher of exactly the same game, they probably didn't think it would be a big deal.

I certainly don't think its a big deal.

 

[Fisker]

Was the Steam launch handled poorly? Absolutely yes. They should've marketed the shizniz out of this one, AND told people straight away that they haven't decided whether to let people convert their game into a title chained to Steam.

But to answer your question:

Because you did not buy the game on steam, you bought it on the Zaonce store. Just because a few developers have offered the possibility to convert an existing game purchase to one that's tied to Steam doesn't mean you are entitled to this. You have been given a courtesy by a choice few developers and are now demanding, with vigorous clamour, that Frontier extend the same courtesy to you for Elite Dangerous.

I do not see this as being the case, not for me, not for most sane people actually participating in this discussion. Many developers have offered the possibility to get a steam activation key, or have their license "converted" to one because Valve makes such a service possible, that doesn't mean I'm entitled to it, no, we're not entitled to this forum either, we're not entitled to Frontier interacting with the community, there's a lot of things we are not "entitled" to, that doesn't mean we're not to expect these things from them, or that it's necessarily unreasonable to do so.

So maybe come next week, Frontier will actually give you some means to convert your license into a Steam subscription key ( - that's what they actually are). Or maybe they'll say that there hasn't been enough demand.

I personally hope that all the people who mentioned their entitlement for such a key don't end up getting one. Why? Because they've been stomping their feet like a little child, and developers should not give in to such tantrums. If there's a way for Frontier to hand out keys only to those who remained civil about the whole matter, that would be ideal. It's unlikely, but I can dream...

There's certainly been people blowing this issue out of proportion, but I still think the opposite camp has been the most malicious, even your statement that I'm "demanding, with vigorous clamour" is borderline, but at least it's not downright offensive, as it has been seen from some other members throughout this thread.

I am of course not necessarily neutral in that observation, so you've perhaps experienced it the other way around, but I think we can at least say people have been unreasonable on both sides of the fence.

 

[Doorstop]

-Sniped-

 

[CravenTHC]

I can hear them already:

"Why is this a paid expansion? It's so vital to the game, it should be included in the base price I paid when I bought the core game!! How is FD messing up this so badly??"

Go on, save this post. I bet you 50 quid that someone's gonna write that line when the planetary landing and FPS expansions are being released.

I would say that paid expansions would be anything that isn't required to play the base game. Anything that is required just to keep playing should not cost money. Having said that, I would imagine the examples you gave would be required pieces of the game after they're launched. So yeah, if this ever does come to pass I expect someone will say something of that nature. To me that sounds a lot like what EA did when they held multiplayer behind a paywall. They got a mountain of deserved negative feedback as a result.

 

[Toumal]

there's a lot of things we are not "entitled" to, that doesn't mean we're not to expect these things from them, or that it's necessarily unreasonable to do so.

That I can completely agree with. Plus it would be smart by Frontier to offer such a thing because why the heck not.

There's certainly been people blowing this issue out of proportion, but I still think the opposite camp has been the most malicious, even your statement that I'm "demanding, with vigorous clamour" is borderline, but at least it's not downright offensive, as it has been seen from some other members throughout this thread.

Oh but I was talking about posts like this one:

I don't appreciate the practice of quietly releasing the game on Steam without making an announcement. It smacks of dishonesty. I will not play a game by such a dishonest company. I will not play the gimped version I got from the company website. Please issue Steam keys to all current owners of the game.

Can we both agree that such a posting is demanding, with vigorous clamour? The "you" in my post was not so much aimed at you Fisker, but more at the "you" of people who make a big deal out of the whole issue. And I think you'll agree that it's getting comical at times, and yes, perhaps from both sides.


So let's settle for a "it would be wise of Frontier to offer a way to transfer a license to a Steam subscription, even though we're not entitled to such a thing" then? Do you think this would be something we could agree on?