ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous | Odyssey: Roadmap

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Players can actually what? The end of the sentence seems to be missing.

sorry the sentence should have ended 'can actually appreciate the content that's in there.'

 

[VR StarLightPL]

And if you think that things can be laggy now? Imagine instead of other ships that are flying about, those ships are actually be small fps levels which are flying around an instance. In addition, you've got to keep track of where any players in ships might be at any one time just in case they're in a part of the ship that gets hit (and might kill them or blow them out into space)

What you do here is called "overengineering a problem". It's really fine for the ship to be a static level without inside damage simulation. If anything, plop a fire or a hole in wall with oxygen level sucking and call it a day. Make player come over and fix it with a repair gun. I really don't need much, certainly I don't need realistically modelled damage. Because that will be unfun. Take superpenetrator rails. Do you honestly expect them to blow holes throughout the ship? Why waste CPU cycles on simulating that? It's not some hardcore sim the likes of DCS (and even there the damage model is greatly simplified), Elite is a funny space arcade shooter with unicorn thrusters and unobtainium anacondas. The only detailed part of the sim is the stellar forge's galaxy model, and even that is not to the level some nerds here imagine.

And it's not like it hasn't been done before. X4 and COD: IW say hi. And Scam Citizen (unreleased, ofc). It's all moot though. There are NO PLANS for ship interiors, and they aren't happening, despite the bold lies of the Kickstarter era.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I'm not entirely sure where you are going with this comment? I'm truthful to a fault, I wear my heart on my sleeve, and never mince my words to mask my meaning. If I see a spade, I call it a fricking shovel; just look at my "roadmap" feedback for example. Many times I've been branded bombastic for this approach, sometimes even reprimanded, but I'm never dishonest nor disingenuous.

Indeed, I am certain you are...

So 90% of VR players is verifiable?
... around 27% of the playerbase who are shutting their wallets?

Around 90% of VR players are not buying Odyssee because of the janky AF on foot VR implementation, and the lack of future development. Some VR players have LEPs some are content with the cockpit experience being retained. The vast majority of VR players are also abstaining from buying arx in protest of the VR decision. Various surveys suggest we "boxheads" comprise ~30% of the playerbase, so ~90% of our ~30% of the playerbase is going to be ~27% of the playerbase who are shutting their wallets to the company.

I am aware you are passionate about VR in ED:

1) the money is irrelevant to my motives
2) What's wrong with vengeance?

3) I've already "lost" this game with vr being kicked to the kerb, so I've nothing to lose
4) The team's jobs are secure because Frontier are lining up new titles that the dev team will work on in any "after Odyssey*" scenario

*After Odyssey would cover two scenarios, either they fix and finish the game, or they pull the plug on it

 

[hisstus]

I replied to a thread on this last week to clear things up - I misunderstood the phrasing of "move on", I'm afraid.
What I meant in my response was "move on" in terms of player feelings over a decision made. If a decision is made which isn't quite what was desired, then our passionate community won't just go "Oh ok, all good", and "move on from it". That's entirely expected at this point.
That's why we then listen and attempt to find a balanced response from feedback further.
You're all very passionate about the game and that's incredible and what makes those of you still engaged so awesome. We can only continue to learn from what you all want from the Galaxy o7, so thank you.

Hi! I have a question, please clarify it.
in 2020 arthur said - yes there will be ship interiors, but not at the start of odyssey.
(https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/odyssey-update-on-vr-and-ship-interiors.554223/ "While Odyssey will see players explore a wide range of on and off world locations including station interiors, ship interiors will not be included at launch.")
and in June he also revealed that no ship interiors were even in the plans.
tell me, though, which of these statements is true and which is not?

 

[Amy Pendergast]

Hi! I have a question, please clarify it.
in 2020 arthur said - yes there will be ship interiors, but not at the start of odyssey.
(https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/odyssey-update-on-vr-and-ship-interiors.554223/ "While Odyssey will see players explore a wide range of on and off world locations including station interiors, ship interiors will not be included at launch.")
and in June he also revealed that no ship interiors were even in the plans.
tell me, though, which of these statements is true and which is not?

Actually, both.

That there are no plans and it was not at launch are logically compatible.

Not at launch does not imply sometimes later, sadly

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

What you do here is called "overengineering a problem". It's really fine for the ship to be a static level without inside damage simulation. If anything, plop a fire or a hole in wall with oxygen level sucking and call it a day. Make player come over and fix it with a repair gun. I really don't need much, certainly I don't need realistically modelled damage. Because that will be unfun. Take superpenetrator rails. Do you honestly expect them to blow holes throughout the ship? Why waste CPU cycles on simulating that? It's not some hardcore sim the likes of DCS (and even there the damage model is greatly simplified), Elite is a funny space arcade shooter with unicorn thrusters and unobtainium anacondas. The only detailed part of the sim is the stellar forge's galaxy model, and even that is not to the level some nerds here imagine.

And it's not like it hasn't been done before. X4 and COD: IW say hi. And Scam Citizen (unreleased, ofc). It's all moot though. There are NO PLANS for ship interiors, and they aren't happening, despite the bold lies of the Kickstarter era.

Would you still play elite, if those features where promised in a future update?

 

[hisstus]

Actually, both.

That there are no plans and it was not at launch are logically compatible.

Not at launch does not imply sometimes later, sadly

Well, in that case, I don't understand why they said "they will, but not at the odyssey launch". did they want to make more money on pre-orders? but, that would be deceiving the consumer by creating false expectations.

 

[Factabulous]

So many posters saying "We don't understand words - please give us more words to misunderstand"

 

[Amy Pendergast]

Well, in that case, I don't understand why they said "they will, but not at the odyssey launch". did they want to make more money on pre-orders? but, that would be deceiving the consumer by creating false expectations.

That's PR marketing speak for you. They never in the citation said that players will run through ship interiors. They said station interiors.

 

[Angus]

Even some of your most loyal content creators are ALREADY moving on. The combination of a feeling Frontier Development are ignoring the issues, the unmitigated disasters that are the "supercruise news" streams (with the exception of when someone had the sense to get Dav into the stream to explain the server tick issues, who actually talked to the playerbase as adults, not the kindergarten-teacher trying to gloss over the problems speech of PR specialists. And this isn't directed at you personally, there are others on the CM team that are FAR worse than you). That segment with Dav actually answering questions and explaining what the actual problem was, probably did more to stem the stampede of people leaving in disgust than all those pretty screenshots have done combined. It's too late for PR speech when your community has seen through it. At that point, the PR speech only does more damage. Because I actually LOVE this game, and would hate to see the playerbase dwindle so far it gives FDev an excuse to turn off the servers and thus end the game, I'd really like you to continue along the path Dav set out for you. Get the people who actually knows what went wrong to explain it. Yes, that means no lawyer-vetting of responses and canned PR speech. The ONLY thing you will get from more of those lawyer-vetted responses along the lines of the two "I'm sorry you feel that way" non-apologies from David Braben, is more anger. The only thing you will get out of the "bought and paid for pet streamers" (the content creators you bribed with a pelicase full of glassware, soil and living plants. A bit curious on how you handled customs regulations on that to be honest) acting like brown-noses for you - is - you guessed it - more anger. Your loyal pet streamers are not only doing you a disservice, they are a huge part of your problem right now. You have created a "trust vacuum". People no longer trust you. You CAN NOT mitigate that by soothing words. You can mitigate it by giving us facts and actually taking responsibility. You must own the problem, not try to hide it under the rug.

For balance and speaking as somebody who will give FD a kickin' when I think it's deserved, I'm having a ball with Odyssey despite the issues and I think the Community team's response has been pretty much spot on. Clearly some people feel like you do, I don't. Love you! XXX

 

[hisstus]

That's PR marketing speak for you. They never in the citation said that players will run through ship interiors. They said station interiors.

really? please find the word "stations" in that sentence - ship interiors will not be included at launch.
what does "at launch" mean? it means "will appear later", but as part of the odyssey.
show me what the phrase looks like to indicate that the interiors won't be included in the odyssey at all?
it looks like this. - "ship interiors will not be included at odyssey."

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Indeed, I am certain you are...

Could you clarify if you meant that to say you are Certain that I am disingenuous or certain that I am honest to a fault?

So 90% of VR players is verifiable?
... around 27% of the playerbase who are shutting their wallets?

The 90% of VR players is an approximation based on what I've observed within the forums, I would loved to have ran a survey on that, but the forum doesn't permit polls / petitions / surveys etc, so this number will have to be anecdotal rather than absolute. However, the stat I cite of VR players players being ~30% of the playerbase is based on a couple statistical sources:
A reddit poll of 1627 participants, LINK to survey, found the following:

• ~40% of the respondents stated that they play ED in VR at least sometimes.
• ~28% of the respondents stated that they play ED in VR at least equally as in 2D.
• ~16% of the respondents stated that they play ED exclusively in VR.

There was also a pair of youtube polls that I don't have screenshots of handy, but one was on Obsidian Ant's community t'other on Exigeous' channel. Their numbers averaged with the reddit poll to suggest VR makes up 30% the playerbase. I'll try and dig up the YT polls this evening if you want?

I am aware you are passionate about VR in ED:

There's no denying it, I wear my heart on my sleeve, both when I'm happy and when I'm hacked off, unfortunately with the way things are going I'm erring more towards the latter.

 

[Amy Pendergast]

really? please find the word "stations" in that sentence - ship interiors will not be included at launch.
what does "at launch" mean? it means "will appear later", but as part of the odyssey.
show me what the phrase looks like to indicate that the interiors won't be included in the odyssey at all?
it looks like this. - "ship interiors will not be included at odyssey."

Sure here is the sentence and I bolded the corresponding phrases:

While Odyssey will see players explore a wide range of on and off world locations including station interiors, ship interiors will not be included at launch.

So you see, explorers will explore station interiors but not necessarily ever ship interiors.

Edit: That's what I mean with PR speak.
As long as they don't explicitly say "Yes we will do ship interiors later" they don't have to and they probably never come.

 

[NikoKäsi]

"Not at launch" heavily implies "Sometime in the future" in normal conversation.
If I say "I can't pay you back tomorrow", it's implied that I will do so in the future. Especially if when I took the loan I said "I will pay it back".

This might not apply to the statement in the legal sense, although the "I will pay it back" / "The game will have ship interiors" probably would even if it was a long time ago. Can't just go back on it. But in common and reasonable discussions it's more than fair to assume "Not at launch" means "later". Of course this is just PR speak to keep the option open without committing to it but it is misleading.

 

[Amy Pendergast]

"Not at launch" heavily implies "Sometime in the future" in normal conversation.
If I say "I can't pay you back tomorrow", it's implied that I will do so in the future. Especially if when I took the loan I said "I will pay it back".

This might not apply to the statement in the legal sense, although the "I will pay it back" / "The game will have ship interiors" probably would even if it was a long time ago. Can't just go back on it. But in common and reasonable discussions it's more than fair to assume "Not at launch" means "later". Of course this is just PR speak to keep the option open without committing to it but it is misleading.

I don't argue the misleading part.
It's just how it works

 

[Riverside]

"Not at launch" heavily implies "Sometime in the future" in normal conversation.
If I say "I can't pay you back tomorrow", it's implied that I will do so in the future. Especially if when I took the loan I said "I will pay it back".

This might not apply to the statement in the legal sense, although the "I will pay it back" / "The game will have ship interiors" probably would even if it was a long time ago. Can't just go back on it. But in common and reasonable discussions it's more than fair to assume "Not at launch" means "later". Of course this is just PR speak to keep the option open without committing to it but it is misleading.

Weasel Words

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Actually, both.

That there are no plans and it was not at launch are logically compatible.

Not at launch does not imply sometimes later, sadly

"not at launch" does ambiguously infer they will happen after launch, where as "No, not part of Odyssey" is categorically absolute and totally unambiguous. Sadly Frontier deliberately obfuscate their intentions through careully chosen words rich in ambiguity which are used to mask their statements meaning, very dishonourable.

Well, in that case, I don't understand why they said "they will, but not at the odyssey launch". did they want to make more money on pre-orders? but, that would be deceiving the consumer by creating false expectations.f

That is EXACTLY what they have been doing, using vague ambiguities like "not at launch" rather than an outright "no", to mislead customers into thinking something is coming later, when it's not even on their agenda.

really? please find the word "stations" in that sentence - ship interiors will not be included at launch.
what does "at launch" mean? it means "will appear later", but as part of the odyssey.
show me what the phrase looks like to indicate that the interiors won't be included in the odyssey at all?
it looks like this. - "ship interiors will not be included at odyssey."

It doesn't mean it will appear later, it is a deliberately vague wording that infers it might come later. As I've said numerous times, such deliberately deceptive wordings are utterly dishonourable and definitely duplicitous, but as the wonderful Ms. Pendergast points out, they are sadly, legally "true".

 

[NikoKäsi]

I don't argue the misleading part.
It's just how it works

Yeah, unfortunately it is. Now I'm no lawyer and I doubt consumers have enough time / money to go through the painful process of a lawsuit, but misleading marketing is illegal in most countries. Customers did "sponsor" the project in Kickstarter based on the promises - although time and again we see them be fulfilled in the minimum technical sense (one could say the ship cockpit is the interior, although I'm sure more specific promises were made).
Either way it's a promise that is not being fulfilled and I don't believe it's a coincidence that VR / interiors were dropped from the plans after the DLC was released and bought by many. I'm a little surprised they didn't wait until console release though.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

(...)

(...)

Would you still play elite, if those features where promised in a future update?

No, I'm done with the waiting since Horizons 2.1. An information like that however would give me something to look for. A hope if you will. Currently there's none left in me. I had hoped that they will turn this ship around with Odyssey. A proud one hundred plus Elite team, biggest development effort since horizons... Yet they didn't disappoint in overpromising (the NEW ERA!) and underdelivering, followed their proven track record this time with fake "in engine" trailers and "magic non-alpha build". Withholding the whole truth is the same as lying ("VR not at launch... [and when pigs fly]").

So many posters saying "We don't understand words - please give us more words to misunderstand"

I think that your misunderstanding of the concept of empathy is showing. I can also take a wild guess that if someone is conned, you will ridicule them because they fell for it, right?

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

No, I'm done with the waiting since Horizons 2.1. An information like that however would give me something to look for. A hope if you will. Currently there's none left in me. I had hoped that they will turn this ship around with Odyssey. A proud one hundred plus Elite team, biggest development effort since horizons... Yet they didn't disappoint in overpromising (the NEW ERA!) and underdelivering, followed their proven track record this time with fake "in engine" trailers and "magic non-alpha build". Withholding the whole truth is the same as lying ("VR not at launch... [and when pigs fly]").

Then why are you still here? All you're doing is getting angry over something that they'll never change.