Elite Dangerous: Update 7.01 and Horizons Update (PC Only)

When they get the UI designers back in for another stream they should really ask for the reasoning around the display / numbers of FC in a system - I'd like to understand where they were coming from on that one.
 
When they get the UI designers back in for another stream they should really ask for the reasoning around the display / numbers of FC in a system - I'd like to understand where they were coming from on that one.
That was not the UI designers doing. FCs are (weird) stations, for all intents and purposes. So of course they show on the system map. Until somebody changes something.

So I guess the only question you could ask them is "why didn't you have time to change this", but the answer would be pretty obvious.
 
If you don't enable port forwarding in certain cases the game will use a fallback mode which is not as fast or reliable. I agree that it's not desirable to have people setting up port forwarding, but that's the situation with any game using peer to peer networking - you can set up a stable connection yourselves, or you can roll the dice.

If you're in a team of four, and you jump, one of those four will be hosting the next game instance (or some random, if you're in Open). If they're behind a restricted router, none of you can connect directly to their PC and it's nearly always game over. (I've done this: enabled network logs on each PC, and browsed them to see which of the team was picked to host the instance, or 'island'. All the failure-to-connects show up in the other players' logs.)

In network settings (after loading the game, and before starting it) scroll down to router type. If it says port_restricted or similar, and UPNP is disabled on the router, that player wants to enable port forwarding, no question.

On the plus side you only need to set it up once.

View attachment 267231
Hi Sighman, thank you very much indeed for your reply. I mean this is completely news to me. I do know about port forwarding, I just don't like it because it leaves my PC wide open on that port. And I didn't know it was sometimes necessary.

I realise I shouldn't be coming to you for Tech Support ha ha, but can you clarify something for me please?
If I look at my network settings in game, UPNP is enabled but port forwarding is off. Are you saying that I do not need to enable port forwarding?

Secondly, the multicrew issue I raised where I was the passenger, but got left stuck in the blue warp tunnel. That wasn't necessary an issue with my connection, but any one of us might have needed to use port forwarding? Depending who the hosting fell to.

I'm happy to contact Frontier support but just wondered what you would say. Thanks.

My settings:
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sallymorganmoore

Community Manager : Elite Dangerous
Frontier
Good morning @sallymorganmoore. Look I'm really sorry to ping you personally, I know you work hard and you've got enough on your plate. But I've raised this problem on the issue tracker. It persistent and utterly breaks the gameplay if you want to use the multicrew function with your team mates. I notice it has been raised multiple times by other players but each time it has expired due to "This issue expired due to it not being confirmed in the allocated time frame.". Which is odd because it looks to me that this issue had been confirmed on the same day by other players.

So please, please can someone look into this? We finally managed to round up enough players in our player group to try play together after some long absences. And it just ruins group play and you can hear it in peoples voices that they are fed up. The upcoming 4th multi-crew seat is utterly pointless if this doesn't work.

Again, sorry to bug you. Hope you are having a good day.

Heya! I'll take a look, sure. Thanks for passing along the link.
No worries about the ping, thanks for saying :) Happy to have a run with this o7
 
I do know about port forwarding, I just don't like it because it leaves my PC wide open on that port

Huh?
If you dont have ED running, there is nothing to listen on that port. So there is nothing to be wide open on your PC

The second thing... you dont trust port forwarding, but you do have upnp enabled? That's way worse since you can have basically anything that can open ports on your PC and on you router without your knowledge.

Now dont get me wrong, upnp is risky but it's convenient to use. Problem is it's less reliable than a proper port forward.
 
I do know about port forwarding, I just don't like it because it leaves my PC wide open on that port.
If you dont have ED running, there is nothing to listen on that port. So there is nothing to be wide open on your PC
This is in addition to Northpin's comment (hopefully some clarification).

Yes, port forwarding will send the packets to your PC, but if you set it up correctly (usually pretty easy to get right, actually), it will be ONLY udp packets, and ONLY those with the correct destination port number (the one you specify). However, even though those packets now get to your PC, there has to be a program listening to that particular UDP port for the OS to pass the packet on (otherwise, the packet is simply dropped). This means that for your PC to be vulnerable, a nefarious program needs to be listening to that port. And part of the way the internet protocol stack (the relevant code in your OS) works is only one program can listen to a port, thus if such a nefarious program was running, Elite would not be able to use the port and you would not be able to connect (meaning Elite's failure to operate would inform you that something fishy is going on). It also means that when Elite is running (in port-forwarding mode), no other program (nefarious or otherwise) can listen to that port.

Also, while not particularly convenient, you can always disable the port-forwarding when not playing Elite, and re-enable it when you are (assuming you have ready access to your router's settings, of course).
 
Hi Sighman, thank you very much indeed for your reply. I mean this is completely news to me. I do know about port forwarding, I just don't like it because it leaves my PC wide open on that port. And I didn't know it was sometimes necessary.

I realise I shouldn't be coming to you for Tech Support ha ha, but can you clarify something for me please?
If I look at my network settings in game, UPNP is enabled but port forwarding is off. Are you saying that I do not need to enable port forwarding?

Secondly, the multicrew issue I raised where I was the passenger, but got left stuck in the blue warp tunnel. That wasn't necessary an issue with my connection, but any one of us might have needed to use port forwarding? Depending who the hosting fell to.

I'm happy to contact Frontier support but just wondered what you would say. Thanks.

My settings:
View attachment 267249

I wouldn't change your setup - maybe check with your team mates to see if any of them have port_restricted and UPNP set to OFF, because penny to a pound they're the one causing the team issues. If all have UPNP on, then it's worth moving on to configuring port forwarding.

As Northpin said, UPNP is far less secure than port forwarding, because UPNP is a router (not PC) configuration which tells the device to open inbound ports as needed - no matter which application is asking.

If you configure your router to forward port 5100 to your PC (using the MAC address of your network card) it's only any use to a hacker if anything is listening on that port. Aside from Elite, nothing else will listen for incoming connections on that port/address. You can also use 5101, 5102 or 5103 through the Elite Dangerous settings screen, or you can edit an XML file to define any port you want (I believe.)

I play in a team of 4 where three of us have zero network issues when playing together, in any combination, but when the fourth joins it's really unreliable. He doesn't have port forwarding set up yet, but I've reminded him again recently.
 
I wouldn't change your setup - maybe check with your team mates to see if any of them have port_restricted and UPNP set to OFF, because penny to a pound they're the one causing the team issues. If all have UPNP on, then it's worth moving on to configuring port forwarding.

As Northpin said, UPNP is far less secure than port forwarding, because UPNP is a router (not PC) configuration which tells the device to open inbound ports as needed - no matter which application is asking.

If you configure your router to forward port 5100 to your PC (using the MAC address of your network card) it's only any use to a hacker if anything is listening on that port. Aside from Elite, nothing else will listen for incoming connections on that port/address. You can also use 5101, 5102 or 5103 through the Elite Dangerous settings screen, or you can edit an XML file to define any port you want (I believe.)

I play in a team of 4 where three of us have zero network issues when playing together, in any combination, but when the fourth joins it's really unreliable. He doesn't have port forwarding set up yet, but I've reminded him again recently.
Great, thanks ever so much. I didn't enable UPNP, it must be enabled by default on the BT router. It sounds a bit like what I know as stateful-inspection, where the firewall or NAT automatically opens up the inbound port for 2 way traffic. But I'm not sure. Hey but thank you for the reply, I've got something to work with now with my team mates.
Cheers.
 
didn't enable UPNP, it must be enabled by default on the BT router. It sounds a bit like what I know as stateful-inspection, where the firewall or NAT automatically opens up the inbound port for 2 way traffic. But I'm not sure.

Employing a bit of simplification here:
upnp is a set of network protocols that enable 2 devices, in our example the computer and the router itself - both upnp enabled, to activate port forwarding rules based on app requests
So if both ED and your router are upnp enabled, ED can request the router to auto port forward as needed.
Nothing wrong with that. It's convenient.

The nasty part is the port forward can happen without your express knowledge and approval.
And it can happen with nefarious programs as well OR with legit programs that have known vulnerabilities that can be exploited

So... pick your poison...

Scary stories, open spoiler at your own risk

Classic scenario examples: QNAP home NAS, home router, both upnp enabled, the NAS is exposing services in internet using the said upnp (the user might not even be aware of it since usually the routers come upnp enabled and iirc the default qnap setting is to use upnp)
The NAS is running vulnerable QNAP software exposed in internet. And the nasty hackers have used that to encrypt all the user files on the said qnap nas. dang!

Now vulnerabilities can be discovered at any time, so i'm not assigning any blame to QNAP here, but some users on qnap forum did not had any idea they were exposing their NAS in internet by the means of upnp.

 
Employing a bit of simplification here:
upnp is a set of network protocols that enable 2 devices, in our example the computer and the router itself - both upnp enabled, to activate port forwarding rules based on app requests
So if both ED and your router are upnp enabled, ED can request the router to auto port forward as needed.
Nothing wrong with that. It's convenient.

The nasty part is the port forward can happen without your express knowledge and approval.
And it can happen with nefarious programs as well OR with legit programs that have known vulnerabilities that can be exploited

So... pick your poison...

Scary stories, open spoiler at your own risk

Classic scenario examples: QNAP home NAS, home router, both upnp enabled, the NAS is exposing services in internet using the said upnp (the user might not even be aware of it since usually the routers come upnp enabled and iirc the default qnap setting is to use upnp)
The NAS is running vulnerable QNAP software exposed in internet. And the nasty hackers have used that to encrypt all the user files on the said qnap nas. dang!

Now vulnerabilities can be discovered at any time, so i'm not assigning any blame to QNAP here, but some users on qnap forum did not had any idea they were exposing their NAS in internet by the means of upnp.

Thank you for you reply. It all sounds like a pandora's box. I kinda wish I hadn't opened it. But I know more now than I did before and we've got something to work with. So thank you everyone for your help.
 
Employing a bit of simplification here:
upnp is a set of network protocols that enable 2 devices, in our example the computer and the router itself - both upnp enabled, to activate port forwarding rules based on app requests
So if both ED and your router are upnp enabled, ED can request the router to auto port forward as needed.
Nothing wrong with that. It's convenient.

The nasty part is the port forward can happen without your express knowledge and approval.
And it can happen with nefarious programs as well OR with legit programs that have known vulnerabilities that can be exploited

So... pick your poison...

Scary stories, open spoiler at your own risk

Classic scenario examples: QNAP home NAS, home router, both upnp enabled, the NAS is exposing services in internet using the said upnp (the user might not even be aware of it since usually the routers come upnp enabled and iirc the default qnap setting is to use upnp)
The NAS is running vulnerable QNAP software exposed in internet. And the nasty hackers have used that to encrypt all the user files on the said qnap nas. dang!

Now vulnerabilities can be discovered at any time, so i'm not assigning any blame to QNAP here, but some users on qnap forum did not had any idea they were exposing their NAS in internet by the means of upnp.


But what people don't understand doesn't worry them - as long as there are enough who do it that way and it's easy, everything feels fine. Until you suddenly become a victim. That's just bad luck then. I also doubt that classic port forwarding is completely risk free, just safer than UpNP. However, I cannot estimate how much higher the risk actually is. So I leave it alone. Even if some "experts" here want to convince me of the opposite.
 
I also doubt that classic port forwarding is completely risk free, just safer than UpNP.

Definitely not.
But at least it's something you know about and under your own control.
And if you chose to expose something in the internet, it's your choice.
As one of the users put it in that qnap forum: i had no idea that port 8080 is exposed on the internet (that was the http admin page of his NAS o_O)

Things are not that nasty with Windows itself. At least MS is releasing security updates at least monthly and they patch stuff quite fast.
But as i said, the nasty things can happen with the stuff that one has no idea it is happening.
So i personally see no biggie with ED using UPNP. Or generic speaking, my Windows machine - that is because i'm a knowledgeable user and im careful with what i access and what i run on my pc
I'm also a QNAP owner, my router was upnp enabled until recently, but my qnap had upnp disabled right from the bat.
 
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