Elite - Elite Dangerous: A few things that are valid and not valid

madbilly

M
Allen Stroud said:
Agreed, although my purpose posting this was for people to catch up a bit from old stuff to new, not to be a total encyclopaedia. The new ED RPG should have a lot of what you're asking for, but that depends on the funding campaign.
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Well that's a good reason to back it! But it's also one of the main reasons I was looking forward to Elite Encounters...

Yes it is good, but its not right. Then again, everyone chooses their own storyline and what fits with their narrative consistency.
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So what is right then? :D

Jade's is a nightmare. there's some amazing stuff that was carefully preserved from the game and then a manual which has all sorts of fan fiction inserted. It totally blindsided me back when I started compiling the guides for the writers. I had to unpick an awful lot of work. I don't cite Jade's as a source for anything unless I can verify it.
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I wouldn't call it a nightmare, it's an excellent resource for FFE. I agree it's difficult work where some it comes from if it's a long time since one played FFE. For the ship designers/manufacturers I've decided that they're not from game, and were made up by Jades or someone else (they appear elsewhere too, which is why I believed them for a time). There are some names that appear in the manual/fiction, but most do not. It's possible they appear in game itself, but I've not had chance to look properly, I've been playing E: D instead!

The current in game equipment is expanding. The heat mechanics and stealth modes replicate the Cloaking Device, but with some hard skill requirements. You've got heat sinks and other things. Currently we are just talking about Elite though, not the next two games.
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Yes there has to be some downside/difficulty to some of these modules to allow them in a multiplayer game. I'd still like to see a proper cloaking device, not just silent running.

I've said before, I wrote a history in the fiction guides for the writers. It collated together stuff from previous publications and worked them into a coherent Federation perspective, Empire perspective, Alliance perspective and Corporate perspective. It was submitted to Frontier and heavily edited by Michael Brookes and David Braben. It exists. We're hoping to turn it into sourcebooks for the forthcoming Elite Dangerous Roleplaying Game - http://www.edrpg.co.uk/single-post/2016/12/08/Announcing-the-Sourcebook-Writers
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I didn't realise that was the history you were referring to, I thought you meant something public. My misunderstanding. I look forward to the RPG.

I personally wrote up the Ophidian from the Dark Wheel version. I think it would be great for it to appear in the roster.
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Now I hope to see that in the RPG sourcebooks, and later in the game!

One of the things I've found from revisiting the work we did and writing short stories for the forthcoming roleplaying game is just how many potential stories, ,yths and legends there are. Have you been reading The Unexpected Guest? Its here - http://www.edrpg.co.uk/single-post/2016/12/13/The-Unexpected-Guest---Part-1
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TBH I've not had chance to look into the RPG or your new story much recently, but I hope to soon.

Lots of ideas here. I guess I should start on a Frontier and F:FE list shouldn't I? ;)
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Yes please :)

Phoenix_Dfire said:
Would love the trumbles back, a reason to try and overheat your ship - Trumble death only at 140% ship heat. :O
The Moray is in one of the Tales from the Frontier books, so that one's still valid. [up]
Would love an emergency space dredger mission. I.e. Stop an out of control Space dredger wipe out a station.
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I take it that all FFE Thargoid And Ardent's Quest lore has been discarded and we're starting over? (Personally got no problem with that), kind of like it the whole of FFE didn't happen.
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Great ideas there about missions and trumbles! TFTF is another book I've yet to get onto, so much good stuff to read! Re the Argent's Quest etc, there was some discussion about this last summer IIRC, and the general concensus was that it might have happened, but they won't tell us if it did or it didn't. I expect in the length of time it's taken me to write this reply someone will have clarified.
 

DarthArcanus

DarthArcanus
I could be mistaken, but wasn't it commonly believed that the FSD was a new form of fly that utilized Hyperspace, which is an alternate dimension, and it replaced the old star drive (not sure what it's called), which sent its users into Witchspace, a separate alternate dimension.

As I recall, I read an explanation that said the power requirements for FSD Hyperspace jumping increased exponentially with ship mass, which made it impractical for larger ships, and that was why the capital ships look so different exiting from FTL, because they are still using the old Witchspace drive, which for some reason is less power intensive, or perhaps it scales linearly.

End note: All of this was gleamed from scouring the forums and wiki, I didn't play the original Elite. E:D is my first.
 

Allen Stroud

Allen Stroud
DarthArcanus said:
I could be mistaken, but wasn't it commonly believed that the FSD was a new form of fly that utilized Hyperspace, which is an alternate dimension, and it replaced the old star drive (not sure what it's called), which sent its users into Witchspace, a separate alternate dimension.

As I recall, I read an explanation that said the power requirements for FSD Hyperspace jumping increased exponentially with ship mass, which made it impractical for larger ships, and that was why the capital ships look so different exiting from FTL, because they are still using the old Witchspace drive, which for some reason is less power intensive, or perhaps it scales linearly.

End note: All of this was gleamed from scouring the forums and wiki, I didn't play the original Elite. E:D is my first.
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All explanations are from players. A definitive explanation has not been released.

The Gollancz novels had micro-jumping as FSD was a DDF (Design Decision Forum) suggestion and incorporated after the drafts of these books were written.

Lave Revolution hints at a 'drive skipping' explanation which is about shorting the hyperdrive to get in system faster, but this was supposed to be a dangerous practice. I did submit a draft document that explained the development of drive technology, including Stardreamer, but that was right at the end of my work. I'd like to return to it for EDRPG.

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madbilly said:
So what is right then? :D
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As I said, it didn't happen. The eight galaxies aren't in the timeline. Galcop is a different subject.
 

Allen Stroud

Allen Stroud
Futuristic Kung Fu said:
You could save an orbital station from a supernova in the original Elite?
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Yep. There were variations on different versions. I played the Amstrad version.

When you got to the Dangerous rating, you jumped into a system, suffered a fuel leak and saw the sun was very big. You docked with the station and when you got inside, the populace said "The sun is going nova, will you help us Y/N?" Either way, when you launch, you have a limited time to get away and couldn't buy fuel from the station.

I could never complete the mission without a Galactic Hyperdrive, although many people said there was a manoeuvre that allowed you scoop fuel from the nova and run.
 

VR Lucian Arkright

VR Lucian Arkright
Ahhhh, after digging through my old Frontier Manual, I had crossed my wires with my drive Lore - I was right about reading something about emissions, but it was connected with the Frontier era Hyperspace Drives, and a sudden spike in mutations near spaceports, leading to a safety distance before being allowed to engage your drive. So other than game design reasons, there is nothing that I can find that explains the lack of the 'interspace jump drive'/'Torus Jump Drive' and the need for the 'Star Dreamer' instead.
 

Tryst

Tryst
Allen Stroud said:
As i said, the name in parlance is now Hyperspace (I think personally the name change was a bit of a shame).

Holdstock's description of the experience really does feel just like what you go through though (as in the visuals designed by the folks at Frontier) and yes it would be the same as was in the original, not a different jump method.
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Witch Space was originally a part of Hyperspace. We did have Hyperspace in the original Elite series as we do now but Witch Space was purely a Hyperspace anomaly, much like an air pocket when flying in atmosphere. From what I understand, you transited through Witch Space to enter Hyperspace and the same coming back out of Hyperspace, so Witch Space was somewhere in between the two. If you hit an anomaly in Hyperspace, it slowed you to the speed at which you transited back into Witch Space but not slow enough to drop out into normal space. This was the reason an emergency brake manoeuver in Hyperspace was used to deliberately enter Witch Space
 

Allen Stroud

Allen Stroud
Tryst said:
Witch Space was originally a part of Hyperspace. We did have Hyperspace in the original Elite series as we do now but Witch Space was purely a Hyperspace anomaly, much like an air pocket when flying in atmosphere. From what I understand, you transited through Witch Space to enter Hyperspace and the same coming back out of Hyperspace, so Witch Space was somewhere in between the two. If you hit an anomaly in Hyperspace, it slowed you to the speed at which you transited back into Witch Space but not slow enough to drop out into normal space. This was the reason an emergency brake manoeuver in Hyperspace was used to deliberately enter Witch Space
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You're totally right, my bad. I took a re-read and I think I confused the subsequent conversation which said "we're just talking about hyperspace now". That said, the current tunnel mechanic really does capture the spirit of the original description.

Have to say as well, my re-read was a bit disappointing. I remembered that bit of Holdstock as being awesome, I'm less impressed with it now... :(
 

Jaiotu

Jaiotu
Trumbles. They may not exist in the game but they are still a part of the official lore.

From Drew Wagar's Reclamation:

She spotted the family she’d seen in the lift on the far side of the Trumble seller. Both boys clearly had their minds set on owning one of the furry creatures. The father shook his head. The youngest child pouted. She heard him even over the sound of the crowd.
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Allen Stroud

Allen Stroud
Yes, similar to what I did with Bordercats, although that reference is a bit more obscure and there's new exposition. There's no context of what 'trumbles' are in that paragraph, just the mention, leaving those who know to fill in the gap.
 
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Cmdr-Wotherspoon

Cmdr-Wotherspoon
Allen Stroud said:
That said, the current tunnel mechanic really does capture the spirit of the original description.

Have to say as well, my re-read was a bit disappointing. I remembered that bit of Holdstock as being awesome, I'm less impressed with it now... :(
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The animation for capital ships entering and leaving real space is radically different from the sort of hyperspace jump player ships can achieve. It would be nice to think that FD has done this for a reason other than theatrical effect.

Sadly, one's childhood favourite reads can sometimes turn out to be disappointing in retrospect. I've been rereading some of the Arthur Clarke books, and - despite solid technical foundations - the plots and especially the characters which I loved as a child now appear somewhat creaky and wooden.
 

Jaiotu

Jaiotu
Allen Stroud said:
Yes, similar to what I did with Bordercats, although that reference is a bit more obscure and there's new exposition. There's no context of what 'trumbles' are in that paragraph, just the mention, leaving those who know to fill in the gap.
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Well... sure if that paragraph was the only part of the book mentioning Trumbles but the earlier paragraphs certainly give a good description to fill in the context:

Whatever the creatures were they seemed popular. Folk were waving credit vouchers and ID bracelets at him. She could see kids cradling the things excitedly in their hands. Some of them made little whistling noises. One had eyes she could see, huge soulful eyes with big brown irises. They were adorably cute, perhaps she could get one.

A man pushed past with a rough laugh. ‘Look at that ‘stard with his Trumbles. Get one of those on your ship and you can kiss your cargo goodbye, teeth like razors, eat anything. And they sell ‘em to kids!’
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madbilly

M
This article is a good thing, something we should have more of, in conjunction with the web-based portal to access all of this gamelore that I referred to earlier. RPG sourcebooks are important for the RPG, but if one has bought the computer game, one shouldn't have to buy the RPG to have access to this stuff, it should already be accessible.

Going back to the "eight galaxies" business: it's no inconveivable that GalCop operated a wall-garden approach like Apple etc do now, and these eight "galaxies" were really just "mini bubbles" of stars around human inhabited that were too far apart for a normal quirium hyperdrive to travel between, hence the galactic hyperdrive using "PhotoSpec nuclear fuels" was needed to travel between these mini-bubbles. Then, sometime between between 3125 and 3200 GalCop collapsed and with it both the walled-garden and quirium fueled hyperdrives.

However, within the new GalNet article it's strange that they confirm that quirium fuelled drives were as fast as FSD-hyperdrives. If this is the case, then between the loss of quirium and creation of FSDs (at least ~100 years) there must have been a dark age when the economy of humanity collapsed and there was a period of mass-starvation, since many worlds would have developed expecting daily food/material deliveries, and then relatively quickly they would have have a preiod of ~a week with much less food and supplies. You know what they say about society if it missed one meal...
 

madbilly

M
Perhaps that's what did happen, but only with the GalCop worlds because they had the secret of quirium and their economy depended on it, and after GalCop mysteriously collapsed all their worlds collapsed as well, mass starvation and anarchy occurred and the population on almost all of the GalCop worlds died out in a generation. Only the Old Worlds remained stable. The Federation and Empire never had the secret of quirium and therefore didn't suffer the same fate. The old GalCop worlds were gradually recolonised by the Federation and Empire, and various independents, resulting in the galaxy we see in FE2 in 3200.

So what happened to GalCop then...
 

Parmo

Parmo
Cmdr-Wotherspoon said:
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Sadly, one's childhood favourite reads can sometimes turn out to be disappointing in retrospect. I've been rereading some of the Arthur Clarke books, and - despite solid technical foundations - the plots and especially the characters which I loved as a child now appear somewhat creaky and wooden.
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I agree but this may be due to a more vivid, more passionate imagination of the young mind when reading the words; the older mind, the more life experienced mind, the more reasoning mind, may view the same words through a different lense.

When I was a child my mind created worlds; today, in games such as ED, we are given whole universes.
 
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