Elite Mining game!

[Deleted member 121570]

I don't get it. Nobody's forcing anyone to mine (or do any other grind, tbh).
If you don't like it, don't do it. If others want to, who cares?
There's loads of other things to go do instead.

Go do those instead. They might be more fun (albeit less lucrative).
It's all just choices.

If you choose to go grindmine, then you've only yourself to blame once you're bored.

 

[Brrokk]

Game exploits like Borann are breaking the game. Devs take too long time to fix them. I am currently doing core mining in rings I have discovered myself after long searching for the right ones. I can say with this method without looking at any guids and tutorials I started making about 100 mil / hour. I use my old veteran mining Python.

Whether or not Borann is a problem, there's no way it can be described as an exploit. Using "exploit" to mean "thing I don't like" just means that we won't be able to clearly identify a real exploit later.

 

[B1rdy]

I'd say it's more an evolution of the game. Rather than reducing payouts from mining, I hope FD introduce other mechanics for other professions that can earn very high profits (preferably with enjoyable gameplay, as mining is for me). There are still many parts of the game that have other requirements, as you say, so I don't think we need to have credits as an additional one.

Personal preference aside, FDev clearly created a progression system with the way the ships are priced. This system is borderline obsolete due to profits they allow players to make. It is not a good design.
Here is a similar example: In the RPG Gothic 3 you were able to buy the strongest melee weapon of the entire game within the first few hours, making other quest rewards or exploration rewards throughout the rest of the game pointless.
You can argue as much as you want and despite ship progression being not as linear or impactful to the game mechanics, ED is certainly not better off being (even) more consequence free.

It doesn't bother me if a new player can buy an Anaconda within a day. They won't be able to fly it properly for months.

Of course not, but that was not, what my initial argument was directed at.

 

[Crank Larson]

You can argue as much as you want and despite ship progression being not as linear or impactful to the game mechanics, ED is certainly not better off being (even) more consequence free.

When E: D was released, pretty much the only thing you could progress through was the available ships. But even then, it was never linear - I missed out loads of ships. This also has nothing to do with consequences - what consequences are you referring to that players are now avoiding by being able to afford better ships more quickly?

 

[Deleted member 121570]

Personal preference aside, FDev clearly created a progression system with the way the ships are priced

I think that is personal preference btw. More expensive ships aren't necessarily 'better' than cheaper ones. They just do different stuff.
It sorta depends what you're looking for from your ship. eg. A DBX or Phantom will be better for an explorer than a Corvette.

People's perceptions of progress vary depending on what they want to do. It's wrong to imply to that progress = financial gain & profit leading to expensive ship purchases. Progress could just as easily mean 'find 100 wolf rayets' or unlock all engineers etc etc.

In that light, mining can be completely irrelevant for plenty players. So too can profit & credits.

 

[CptArcher]

Speak for yourself. The only time I have mined was to please an engineer. If this is a mining game to you, it's because you play it that way. I choose to spend my time expanding control of our faction and influencing elections

 

[B1rdy]

I think that is personal preference btw. More expensive ships aren't necessarily 'better' than cheaper ones. They just do different stuff.

They enable you to do exactly the same stuff, they aren't a requirement. However, up to a certain degree larger ships offer clear benefits over smaller ones. Progress in not entirely linear, for sure, but it is there, which is my point.

People's perceptions of progress vary depending on what they want to do. It's wrong to imply to that progress = financial gain & profit leading to expensive ship purchases. Progress could just as easily mean 'find 100 wolf rayets' or unlock all engineers etc etc.

This is not about what player can imagine what progress is for them, but what FDev designed. In a well designed game, the player progresses in his skill level, while the game provides new tools for the player and raises the stakes or challenge at the same time.

In that light, mining can be completely irrelevant for plenty players. So too can profit & credits.

Only if the system is not working. As I said before, when credits were rare in ED every module, every mission, every enemy to engage, where a careful choice. Of course there were ways to avoid that mostly by flying in solo away from inhabited space while looking at things. But this doesn't mean the rest I explained does not matter.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Well, some results of my time trials...

Mining in triple LTD hotspot - 60Mcr/hr
Bulk deliveries from extraction to industrial systems - 50Mcr/hr
Bulk passenger transport - 50Mcr/hr

I know that some people gain more per hour mining but the same is probably true of the other two activities. I have no problem with greater experience and skill being rewarded.

Mining is the top figure now, but after the hotspots are gone from Borann it may not be.

That first number seems off, although it depends in which ship you do it, and what the max price of LTDs is in a given time (usually is about 1.1m but can reach 1.7m). Surface mining with a big ship carrying 4 medium mining lasers and 12+ collectors will make you a multiple of that per hour. You simply can't achieve that with any other activity.

 

[Brrokk]

That first number seems off, although it depends in which ship you do it, and what the max price of LTDs is in a given time (usually is about 1.1m but can reach 1.7m). Surface mining with a big ship carrying 4 medium mining lasers and 12+ collectors will make you a multiple of that per hour. You simply can't achieve that with any other activity.

Yes, those are just my numbers, dabbling with mining using a handy mining Python. I know that people in big purpose-built ships can gather stuff faster, and people who are more practiced at mining can do better. Like I said, I have no problem with people better at it than I am getting better payouts, in any category.

Sometimes I wonder if the people reporting huge payouts are really dividing by all the hours they spent on the activity though. It's easy to quote a huge total for a Cutter load of LTDs, but I think it's necessary to remember outfitting, getting to the place, searching out a good price and going to sell. That's why I prefer to quote credits per hour. For myself, mining offers best credit earning ATM, but not by a huge margin, and I think this could change soon.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Yes, those are just my numbers, dabbling with mining using a handy mining Python. I know that people in big purpose-built ships can gather stuff faster, and people who are more practiced at mining can do better. Like I said, I have no problem with people better at it than I am getting better payouts, in any category.

Sometimes I wonder if the people reporting huge payouts are really dividing by all the hours they spent on the activity though. It's easy to quote a huge total for a Cutter load of LTDs, but I think it's necessary to remember outfitting, getting to the place, searching out a good price and going to sell. That's why I prefer to quote credits per hour. For myself, mining offers best credit earning ATM, but not by a huge margin, and I think this could change soon.

Yeah, I used to mine in a Cutter and would fill a 256t hold and sell that in about 1-2 hours (mining in Borann that is). I think mining income (specifically for LTDs, I think the rest is mostly ok actually) is way out of whack with the rest and needs to be adjusted. Now that I have sufficient credits for a FC, I sold the Cutter and replaced it with a T6, because mining anything more than 50-100t is getting boring very fast for me, and I find doing so in a much more vulnerable ship like the T6 is a bit more exciting also.

From what I understand is that FDev for whatever reason did not apply the changes they introduced in January to LTDs as opposed to all other Core commodities (such as Vopals), and combined with the triple hotspot (gone next month until another is found) is the mining meta now. I would like to have a reason to mine other commodities, especially the low value ones in rocky rings, but there's little reason to do so.

 

[B1rdy]

When E: D was released, pretty much the only thing you could progress through was the available ships. But even then, it was never linear - I missed out loads of ships. This also has nothing to do with consequences - what consequences are you referring to that players are now avoiding by being able to afford better ships more quickly?

I was rather referring, that a lot of ships will be skipped, because price differences became less relevant. And if your game contains objectively irrelevant assets, like the Asp Scout or some completely bad gun in Call of Duty, there is a problem with your design.

 

[Crank Larson]

This is not about what player can imagine what progress is for them, but what FDev designed. In a well designed game, the player progresses in his skill level, while the game provides new tools for the player and raises the stakes or challenge at the same time.

That's not what a sandbox game is. FD literally provide the sandbox for us to play in, and that's it (all they're doing now is adding more toys to that sandbox). It is up to each of us to decide how to use it. If you want to treat everything as progression, fair enough - but a lot of us ignore that aspect completely.

 

[Crank Larson]

I was rather referring, that a lot of ships will be skipped, because price differences became less relevant. And if your game contains objectively irrelevant assets, like the Asp Scout or some completely bad gun in Call of Duty, there is a problem with your design.

Not at all. Not every player will use every ship. But I'm pretty sure that every ship is being used right now by at least one player. Even the Asp Scout (no, I wouldn't touch it ). I don't consider this to be a design problem at all.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

However, up to a certain degree larger ships offer clear benefits over smaller ones. Progress in not entirely linear, for sure, but it is there, which is my point.

Larger ships are in some ways significantly worse than much cheaper, smaller ones. Whether they offer any benefit is entirely down to what you're looking for, so again - it's not a progression at all - if you're not interested in those benefits.

This is not about what player can imagine what progress is for them, but what FDev designed. In a well designed game, the player progresses in his skill level, while the game provides new tools for the player and raises the stakes or challenge at the same time.

I disagree. I'd say it is for the player to define what progress is for them, not FDev or the actions/beliefs of some goldrush miners chasing ownership of Cutters.
I don't see that FDev have designed 'progression' in terms of bigger ships being somehow 'progress' over smaller ones, when those ships literally can't do some of the stuff that smaller ones are much, much better at. In fact, I think FDev are actively giving players choices and not defining things for them. Blaze your own trail
There's loads of things to gain skills in that don't involve grinding for credits and flying big ships

Only if the system is not working. As I said before, when credits were rare in ED every module, every mission, every enemy to engage, where a careful choice. Of course there were ways to avoid that mostly by flying in solo away from inhabited space while looking at things. But this doesn't mean the rest I explained does not matter

The system can be seen as working just fine. Credits are only massively plentiful for anyone investing any time into activities that yield them in huge quantity. Nobody has to do any of that.

What you've said matters only in the context of people who're making those kind of choices about their play style and what they see as progress.
All I'm trying to point out is that it's 100% possible for other people to not care at all about 'progress' to larger ships that, within their context, are much worse at doing the things they like to do.
It's also 100% possible to not care about rapid acquisition of massive credit balances, as credits aren't a problem if you just don't need much to do what you want.
Why waste time to go and do something you don't want to do, to get money you don't need, for some big ship you don't want to fly that can't do the stuff you like?

My point is it's a choice to participate in credit gold rushes, and not one you are forced to make. It's not a mining game, unless a player chooses to make it so themselves in a bid to progress to their own goals. These are not "the goals of the game", cos these don't exist outside of personal choice.

I don't see though that they've much to complain about given it's their own choices and actions that have given them such a result.
Nobody forced anyone to go mining. Nobody forced anyone to fly some wallowing huge ship either.
Neither does the game, nor some objective 'progression' within it.

 

[Arvel Yael]

Mirrors on the ceiling
The pink champagne on ice
And she said, "We are all just prisoners here of our own device"

 

[AdmiralXanos]

Larger ships are in some ways significantly worse than much cheaper, smaller ones. Whether they offer any benefit is entirely down to what you're looking for, so again - it's not a progression at all - if you're not interested in those benefits.

Do you PVP your D rated Eagle vs FDLs and Chieftains? some of the small ships are clearly stepping stones to the mediums, I agree the difference between the mediums and the larges is more subjective. But really you'll never be a competitive PVPer in a stock eagle or even make significant trade income in a hauler. some ships where designed purely as stepping stones. BUT you know all this and already have your Cutter and or Corvette, which when you started was your ultimate goal. But now that you have every ship you realized the small ones are more fun because of the inherent vulnerability that comes with them instead of always easy wins in a 6000 shield large.

 

[B1rdy]

Nobody forced anyone to go mining. Nobody forced anyone to fly some wallowing huge ship either.
Neither does the game, nor some objective 'progression' within it.

This is entirely not I was up to. And if you don't believe me, just have a look at DBs kickstarter interview, where he clearly stated he did want a balanced game. And if you think about it, even a sandbox game is better off providing balance and some sort of progression to ensure to keep players challenged over a longer period of time.

 

[Deleted member 121570]

Do you PVP your D rated Eagle vs FDLs and Chieftains? some of the small ships are clearly stepping stones to the mediums, I agree the difference between the mediums and the larges is more subjective. But really you'll never be a competitive PVPer in a stock eagle or even make significant trade income in a hauler. some ships where designed purely as stepping stones. BUT you know all this and already have your Cutter and or Corvette, which when you started was your ultimate goal. But now that you have every ship you realized the small ones are more fun because of the inherent vulnerability that comes with them instead of always easy wins in a 6000 shield large.

Uh...what a bunch of random assumptions! They're all utterly wrong btw, so I'll just say "no" to everything in it

I just wanted to post something from a position of anyone who doesn't participate in the mining credit rushes because they're just not interested, for whatever reasons they might have.
As someone in that position myself, I wanted to reflect an alternative view.

Progression's personal, defined by the challenges you enjoy and how you like playing the game. (Literally nothing in your post meets those criteria for me, personally. I couldn't give a monkey's nuts about PvP, have never owned a Cutter / Vette, never wanted to, and never will. I definitely don't haul cargo around either).

This is entirely not I was up to. And if you don't believe me, just have a look at DBs kickstarter interview, where he clearly stated he did want a balanced game. And if you think about it, even a sandbox game is better off providing balance and some sort of progression to ensure to keep players challenged over a longer period of time.

I believe it does that just fine, thanks. If some players through their own choices want to imbalance it for themselves, it even allows that too.

 

[gooddoc]

Mining!.....

Yeah! I mined last year to boost my funds to 18.5bil in rediness for the purchase of a FC, long b4 a) the delay on the already delayed FC & b) before costs were even explained to us.
Would have mined up to 20bil but I couldn't mine any more....it's just not enjoyable for me to continually do.

Now we're at Beta 2 but as things currently stand, Still costly maintainence fee's but partly because of the way a FC is to be fuelled & the method needed to fuel a FC while in the black, it's a definite no-no from me.
I'll be waiting for the New Era now. My expectation of this wasn't high anyway, but if FD release the FC content as it currently stands in Beta 2 then I really fear for this New Era content.
Sorry Frontier, but you've been sucking all the enjoyment out of this game for a couple of years now & the outlook going forward doesn't look promising as I see it.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

I've spent most my time in Elite (joined at PS4 launch) doing a little of everything.

Love a good exploration trip, and for money making I have a few systems where I can stack pirate MM's.

Whilst not as profitable as mining currently is I make way more than I'll ever spend.

15 billion in assets with 10 billion is cash. Fleet of 20+ fully engineered ships split between the bubble and Colonia.

Big plus from not having joined in the Boran mining frenzy is that mining for tritium will take me back to an activity I haven't dabbled in for over 2 years.

Slow and steady wins the race and my FC will be worth every credit I pay for it.