Elite - not dangerous
- Thread starter G.man
- Start date
Again 
What is a veteran?
(The term is bandied about by various players but never explaining what their 'interpretation' of the term might be)
What is a veteran?
(The term is bandied about by various players but never explaining what their 'interpretation' of the term might be)
Deleted member 121570
D
Again
What is a veteran?
(The term is bandied about by various players but never explaining what their 'interpretation' of the term might be)
Never understood that either
Again
What is a veteran?
(The term is bandied about by various players but never explaining what their 'interpretation' of the term might be)
I would say someone who's been playing the game for 5 years or more. Noobie Fleet Carrier owning, LTD egg spamming, combat no hopefulls, will be "Veterans" in 2025. Mind you they will still be rubbish wingdey snowflakes compared to 2014/15 players.
Possibly one designed by a game designer, I would posit.
Good comments and from others about realism. It’s more about why introduce a concept such as interdictions if they make it nearly impossible to lose? The realism is that it should be difficult to escape but instead it just becomes an easily avoidable nuisance. Same with mining in Res areas. If they were designed specifically as areas to extract resources, why allow you to mine outside of them?
I generally feel that FDev has catered too much to players that complained the game was too hard. But if that got more people to buy the game then I can’t fault them for that. Yes I can force play with self-imposed rules to make it feel more “real” but it’s an imperfect solution. For example, I don’t want to just submit to all interdictions, I want it to be harder to submit to them since that’s how it was supposed to work.
I’ve been happy playing with self-imposed rules for some time so I still enjoy the game very much. I guess I’m looking more for an option to play by 1.0 rules. Maybe an “ED Classic” mode would be a better term than a realistic mode.
Actually had a rule at one point where it was ok to bounty hunt in a low/med/high Res only if you carry a few tons of gold but the cops still made it too easy to deal with pirates. And I didn’t see any difference in the cop response in Res areas based on system security. They seem to be everywhere and always respond quickly.
I really like the idea of mining with some cargo to start with. This is exactly what I was looking for - suggestions to make the risk feel right. Thanks!
You seem to mistake "Space Sim" for "Space Survival".For a space simulation game, Elite Dangerous has lost all sense of realism. Over the years, they’ve added and buffed rewards while minimizing or removing risks so it just doesn't feel real anymore.
In what galaxy could you:
There is no suspension of disbelief. It’s just disbelief. They kept making it easier to make money while taking away or minimizing risks.
- Get full bounties for a couple pew-pew shots when cops do all the damage?
- Always escape interdiction from every pirate?
- Hardly get interdicted by cops when wanted or carrying illegal goods even in high security systems?
- Have a 5% rebuy insurance for any ship but you don’t pay for any insurance installments??? What company would offer that?
- Make millions in mining risk free?
- Sell millions in LTDs in a never ending gold rush due to a broken supply/demand system?
- Buy your OWN fleet carrier? For a squadron - ok. Single commander - just no.
This isn’t an argument to change the game since there are many players who are perfectly happy with their fleet carriers. There’s lots of explorers who are perfectly happy roaming the galaxy. And it’s still a tough game for new players.
But there should be a realism mode for those veteran players who want to experience ED as a more genuine space sim the way it was meant to be played. If you want big ships and gobs of cash, it should be really tough to get there just like in the original Elite game.
Mining should only be in Res Zones (this was the original intent) and the best areas, (pristine metallic rings, hotspots) should be in a Haz Res. Cops should hop into low, medium, high Res areas based on system security level only when a crime has been committed, just like with interdictions and not constantly patrol the area.
Interdiction evasion from NPCs should be much more difficult and based on your ship’s maneuverability.
Bounty hunting payout should be based on damage dealt. You do most of the damage, you get most of the bounty.
Mission payouts should be nerfed significantly and rewards should be based on risk and time/effort needed.
Trade profits should be nerfed especially for tritium, military fabrics, basic meds in Outbreak (or add significant risk if hauling those commodities) but smuggling illegal commodities should be buffed due to the additional risk.
Explo data should be nerfed.
And yes, it should be Open Only.
No easy money. Credits will feel rightfully earned. Pirating will be a legitimate profession again (legitimately illegitimate?). There won’t be just one or two dominant ways to generate credits. Trader, miner, smuggler, bounty hunter, salvager will all be viable careers.
I started playing with self-imposed rules a couple years ago to try to recreate this more realistic galaxy and after hundreds of hours of testing, they work reasonably well (e.g. submitting to all interdictions) but it would be far better to have a separate mode to play from scratch. I’m constantly resetting my accounts and tweaking these rules but would love if others could help better refine these while I hope longingly that FDev adds this new mode of gameplay (which I would gladly pay for). And it shouldn’t be hard to implement since nothing would need to be added to the game, just tweak the existing mechanics.
But since that’s not likely, my dream is to have a good-sized veteran player group where everyone follows and tweaks these rules for the most realistic gameplay possible. Violators will be kicked. Gankers would be welcomed! The galaxy should be a dangerous place!
If you’re interested in joining a group of us who play this way and rediscover this great game or just watch us flail around the galaxy, check us out. We need more feedback and based on a lot of forum posts, I think there are a lot of experienced players out there who would love to play this way (or already play with similar rules).
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Here are the current rules:
ED Veteran Rules
OPEN only
Must submit to all NPC interdictions. Can evade player interdictions.
Reset your commander or get a new account
Get standard sidey loadout without SRV
Bounty Hunting: (no help from cops). Only in low/medium/high Res areas or Nav Beacon in Anarchy systems (KWS required) or Haz Res/CNB in any system.
Exploration: No explo data until Entrepreneur.
Mining: Can only mine in Res areas until Tycoon. Must stay near center of Res areas.
Missions:
PAX: Only Saud Kruger ships can use Business, First or Luxury class PAX modules.
- Penniless: No missions
- Mostly penniless: < 10K mission reward
- Peddler: < 25K mission reward
- Dealer < 50K mission reward
- Merchant: < 100K mission reward
- Broker: < 250K mission reward
- Entrepreneur: Can do any mission
- Exceptions: Can do any mining missions or fed/imperial rank up missions regardless of trade rank.
Trading: No profit margins > 2500 per ton until Broker.
Optional Rules (bold are recommended)
Crimes against me: OFF/ON
Engineering: Yes/No
3rd party apps (outfitting): Yes/No
3rd party apps (trade): Yes/No
3rd party apps (mining spots): Yes/No
Ship loss: 50% rebuy, lose the ship, permadeath
I want space sim. Means, I want more science, more realism, more details adding to the feeling of really being out there. Space simulation means realism in space flight, celestial bodies, lighting, gravity, our ship's behaviour in space, no button prompts, no tinting of the skybox by local stars, no reduction of speed after boosting in FA off, no dog-fighting but pointing carefully calculated lasers at far-away objects. The list goes on.
What you want, is survival elements, and while I don't think those would hurt much, I'm absolutely against Open only and adding artificial risks.
Mining in high-risk-only locations is totally unrealistic. A planetary ring is so big you could easily fit all players who ever played this game in one small section of it without one even seeing the other on the scanner... In real life, ring-segments also spin in different directions and those hot-spots would be all over the place anyway and I guess more like rings within the ring itself. So no, that's not simulation, but just an additional, artificially created challenge.
Since we also have no way of detecting ships in normal space without some kind of beacon, every single miner can happily mine in total solitude without ever being disturbed by anyone. For ages actually...
Buuuut I agree, it's much too easy to get rich and it's also completely unrealistic.
If a reward requires risk to obtain, it is sweeter. If you knowingly force that risk on yourself when you know damn well you could have avoided it and kept the same reward, it devalues it. Just my opinion.
I just thought of this but there's another option here.
"Report Crimes Against Me" can be on or off as a way to change the difficulty of the game without changing the game. Or adding a new difficulty mode.
You could add "Difficult interdictions on/off" and "No police in Res zones" as new options under Pilot Preferences. The latter one would solve the issue of easy bounty money when helping cops as well as add some needed risk to Res mining.
Most of my other rules are just self-imposed that are easy enough to follow.
"Report Crimes Against Me" can be on or off as a way to change the difficulty of the game without changing the game. Or adding a new difficulty mode.
You could add "Difficult interdictions on/off" and "No police in Res zones" as new options under Pilot Preferences. The latter one would solve the issue of easy bounty money when helping cops as well as add some needed risk to Res mining.
Most of my other rules are just self-imposed that are easy enough to follow.
Then when you exit SC in the ring, there should be a realistic chance that another ship is anywhere near your position rather than guaranteed no matter what. I'd place that realism chance at about 0.00000001% that you would literally and realistically exit SC within 7KM of another ship.
Performing an interdiction should be equally difficult. Why is it fair that interdictions are ridiculously simple to initiate, but should be incredibly hard to evade? Interdictions shouldn't be so frequent if they are to be a significant event.
Sure, bounty hunting pays crap anyways, so, why not.
I think we've passed this opportunity a long time ago. It would only be fair to new/newer players if everyone's account/ship balance got reset to 0 so that everyone starts on a level playing ground. Furthermore, you can't make things so hard for your largest player base that it would take them a decade to reach an anaconda. If every mechanic in this game only appealed to players who have 4 hours+ every day to play the game in order to make any meaningful progress, then it won't last long as a game. I think the trick is to add something beyond credit payouts that hard core players can work towards without harming the general appeal of the game to casual players. This used to be Elite rankings, but they're tied to making credits, so... we need something else.
Nah, just add something for the hardcore player as referenced above.
Nope, and you can thank consoles for this.
I agree with more definition and game play around careers, but again, credits shouldn't be the measurement of success within the game, instead, the measurement of success should be more content. Other aspects of doing missions in careers could provide further benefits to the player (i.e. smugglers unlock items that further their careers as smugglers while they gain experience as a smuggler). Having objectives within careers could allow players to personalize their play styles by career and place progress on activities within the career rather than credits earned.
Really, the reason we're in this credit mess is because it is the most significant item in the game for unlocking content. Sure, there are guardian, thargoid, and engineer things you can work towards, but this game play is not intuitively designed to help guide players towards unlocking the content and the activities to unlock the content are repetitive and become dull quickly. If FDev invested in more varied and intuitive game play mechanics that lead to career-based content unlocks, then credits could be viewed as the thing that unlocks the base content that allows you to begin truly experiencing the game.
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All I see whenever I see these "Elite needs to be Open only and PVP focused", all I read is "I want to have more noobs to get easy kills from."
Elite's Open/Solo structure is perfectly fine, and helps keep player numbers higher than they would be if it were strictly Open.
Elite's Open/Solo structure is perfectly fine, and helps keep player numbers higher than they would be if it were strictly Open.
That's literally the bottom line. The mode structure is clever and innovative, and provides diverse game experiences for different types of players, which increases the appeal of the game and its profitability. Any sensible person realises that all we different player types need each other in order to have the game we enjoy.
Moaning that someone else is using the structure in a different way to you is about as stupid as it's possible to be in this game environment.
Everyone should use the modes to get the game experience they want (and there's no need to stick to only one, although that's fine too).
Exactly. I dont understand why PVP players feel that the current structure is such an affront to their livelihood.
It wont change, and im not a 'PvP player' in this game, because there is no point in being.. but imagine if there were no modes, no blocking, no instancing.
Player groups could blockade a system with high LTD sell prices. Other players come to fight those players to clear the route. A massive PvP war organically forms. Ive seen similar situations develop in other games and they are amazing. but they absolutely require that people cant just turn on invisible invincible mode and ignore the initial blockade, or the war never even develops.
This game is crap as an open PvP game because of modes, blocking and instancing. It didnt have to be, it could have been amazing.. but its just a single player game in the end. (Any talk of 'cooperative PvE' is total nonsense. ALL PvE in this game can be completed solo, there are no 'raid' equivalents where multiple ships with different builds are needed)
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This would be my greatest wish. I’ve never been a multiplayer person for various reasons, but I seek combat against challenging NPCs. Inhabited anarchy systems should be pretty lethal and low security systems should be at least very dangerous. One can dream...
All of that blockading stuff also requires that there is one instance for everything - also that every platform was cross platform, and in that one instance.
This is not feasible.
You are absolutely correct that it could never work in Elite Dangerous as currently designed.
Id strongly dispute that it isnt feasible, though, as ive played lots of open world games that managed to keep everyone who was in one area in the same instance.
Ill be honest, i have no idea if it would work cross platform, but id also say that its would be HUGELY preferable to have just separated the platforms if thats a technical barrier to having people in the same instance.
As it is, this is a single player game where its possible to select a mode where you can chat to other people playing the same single player game, and thats all it will ever be.