Elite - Would it be better as a single player?

I think Elite: Dangerous would be much better if it had a true offline mode.

I wouldn't use it for much beyond testing, but the game would definitely be better if players had a game they could alter as they saw fit without interfering with others via the multiplayer aspects intrinsic to the game we have now.
 
If they could have produced a singleplayer game that had all of the non-multiplayer elements outlined in the DDF Proposals, including multi-tier persistent NPCs, it could have been something spectacular. Probably wouldn't have got over the KS threshold though.

Given how it's actually turned out? I think it's a unique and interesting model that they've come up with. Interaction with other players, but on a user-selectable scale from the barely noticeable BGS influences in fringe systems to full-on in-the-face pew. It's pretty smart, and I'm not sure anyone else has even tried something like this let alone made it work.

I'm not a huge fan of multiplayer, especially direct PVP, but if we had to have a compromise then I'm not too unhappy with the compromise we got. I'd still like to see more NPC love, both in terms of the complexity and persistence of the background characters and with the expansion of NPC crew roles, but it's possibly a forlorn hope.

My biggest concern is over what will happen when the game is no longer commercially viable and the servers get shut off. I'm afraid I have zero confidence in David Braben's "promise" (which it wasn't, BTW) to release the server code. Maybe the best we can hope is that some clever modders figure out a way to do code an FE2-style game using ED's assets.
 
No, because that means a lot of people wouldn't bother to buy Elite Dangerous or cosmetics (cause they would use mods for free). That means less revenue to develop and improve ED. The online verification feature ensures that people buy a legit copy to play the game.

Also we have one shared galaxy that is influenced by all players. This isn't possible with a single player, offline game.

A single player space epic should have cinematic quality storytelling like Mass Effect imo.
 
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No, because that means a lot of people wouldn't bother to buy Elite Dangerous or cosmetics (cause they would use mods for free). That means less revenue to develop and improve ED. The online verification feature ensures that people buy a legit copy to play the game.

Also we have one shared galaxy that is influenced by all players. This isn't possible with a single player, offline game.

A single player space epic should have cinematic quality storytelling like Mass Effect imo.

You have online verification all over steam for SP games and stll don't need them to connect to a transaction server for playing.
 
What a ridiculous topic. Its like asking if a hamburger would be improved if you replaced the beef with chicken. Yes, if you prefer chicken over beef. No, if you prefer beef over chicken. Anyway, turns out that people who like solo would prefer if ED was single player only, and those who prefer Open dont. Fascinating, really. Eyeopening for sure.

To be clear, I'm not so interested in people's choice correlated with their mode preference, more interested to see what people think who've known the Elite universe as a single player one.

There seems to be a decent size on both sides. Personally, while I love open world single player games, I know I wouldn't have logged over 1000 hours in them. Elite as an MMO definitely has much more to offer players in terms of longevity. And because of these weird hybrids and trying to be many different things at once, Elite is both a unique and very impressive game.
 
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I, on the other hand, have not thought that even once. :)
For me multiplayer adds nothing, but only acts like a brake on the development of the truly important and essential features.

Add to all that, the fact that the entire MP approach in most video games is based on the LAME P2P model instead of dedicated servers.

In ED you often find yourself surrounded by a bunch of lagging ships in SC "hopping" all over the place, and instances that hang you out to dry for upwards of 5 minutes simply attempting to drop into a StarPort! I see this all over YouTube as well as in my own game sessions, so I know it is not the exception but the rule.

I frankly don't see how any of that adds to the game in any way, shape or form. If anything, all the lagging player ships ruins the immersion more than anything I can think of when playing in Solo, totally free of such B S.

I was an original Beta Tester for Xbox Live back in 2001/2002, and when I started to see all the reliance of P2P for multi-player gaming over dedicated servers I hoped it was a temporary move.

BOY! Was I wrong on that one! [rolleyes][weird][ugh][sad]
 
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Not quite. We're discussing the idea of a game which is 100% isolated from other players.

Solo is not offline. Not even close. It's more indirect multi player.

I would agree with that on a technical level, since Solo players can and do contribute to the same BGS that the MP modes contribute to. But I think the point is, Solo allows the player to interact with the game and its NPCs without being affected by the actions or technical hiccups other players will often introduce into your session.

If ED ran on dedicated servers, free from all the current lag and instancing issues, I would be much more inclined to choose a mode other than Solo 99% of the time I play ED.

I don't have a problem sharing my session with other players as much as I have a problem with those other players ruining my smooth flowing gaming experience simply by being there. No fault of theirs other than perhaps a lousy internet connection/latency spec. But I place the blame on P2P.

It truly sucks as a Multiplayer network, and after two decades, I think it is safe to say, it always will. ;)
 
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Yes, definitely. A single-player Elite would be much, much better. For starters, MODS. Mods give a game longevity. Second, tailored difficulty: you'd set the difficulty to your liking and make it a challenge rather than an exercise in frustration. Third, an over-arching storyline. Be the hero and all that.

And Elite Dangerous is NOT a massively multiplayer game. The online stuff is too shallow to call it that. It is obviously a layer of DRM poorly disguised as a feature.

The topic is too emotional for me so I`ll just say that i completely agree

It killed the game for me... it hindered the development so much that after 2 years we are yet to reach the featureset FE2/FFE provided.., i feared that it would happen, was told by fanboys that it won`t, that gave me some false hope, and later huge disappointment... no stardreamer, no seamless space travel, no orrery, no persistence, barely any physics, loads of lag and griefing, barely any MP gameplay and limitations all around... the list goes on and on

ok that`s enough
 
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verminstar

Banned
Was a time I would have said yes, absolutely...before thinking about exactly what that would mean. By all means, a single player version would be brilliant but it would remain more or less static which is weird cos elite has, fer the past two years ish, been the best single player game Ive ever played.

In that time, there have been one or two changes...some good, some not so good and some just plain laughable...the subtle little changes here and there, little nips and tucks figuratively speaking...none of those would have happened were it a single player game.

Thats not irony, its a paradox...I gotta quit overthinking this, its depressing enough without ye lot on a monday night ^
 
I think a very successful single-player game could be created with the current generation of Elite technology. But it would be its own, stand-alone offering, separate and unique from Elite: Dangerous.
 
To be clear, I'm not so interested in people's choice correlated with their mode preference, more interested to see what people think who've known the Elite universe as a single player one.

Honestly, it isn't much of a comparison. ED as a single player experience is simply better than the original in literally every possible way as far as I can see. Obviously audio/visual, but also the ability to fly multiple ships, a far better flight model, better missions, better galaxy, FAR more interesting stuff if you are intro astronomy, the BGS, ship customization, VR(!) etc. Of course, successors to the original had some fun stuff (NPC crew, additional mission templates), but very little that is actually impossible in ED. It just hasnt been done.

When people say single player would have been better they generally mean their fantasy space game beats ED. Whether a single player ED would actually have been that fantasy game is something entirely different. And as Vasious said: the whole "I am not a modder myself but if it were single player other people could make mods for free which would be awesome." is pretty lame.
 
. If this was a solo game we would have had a cool NPC crew system a year ago.
. If this was a solo game we would have had NPC wing mechanics and Wing/escort missions 2 years ago.
. If this was a solo game the balancing would not have been such a problem.
. If this was a solo game we could have had much more interesting and powerful weaponry.
. If this was a solo game Powerplay could have easily been integrated in general gameplay and could have been developed into one of the core foundations for the mission system.
. If this was a solo game we would never have been bothered by a bad connection (assuming it would be an off line game too).
. If this was a solo game FDev could have concentrated much more on building the actual ED universe.
. If this was a solo game we might have been able to mod this game !!!!
. If this was a solo game we might get a truly unique solo story campaign.

The problem with this is that its a lot of 'could', and some unproven 'would's. Look at Rebel Galaxy. X:R. NMS. None of the single player space games were able to deliver even close to what you assume would have probably happened otherwise. It doesnt sound reasonable to me, tbh. Dont get me wrong, I'd also pay full price for a cool single player space game. I just dont see what you expect or want on the horizon from any developer.
 
For me personally...

I would have preferred ED to be off-line single player like the original(s). I am one of the old guys too (only a couple years younger than Mr Braben!), an original '84 player on BBC Micro and also played F:E2 on the Amiga and I loved them both and played them to death. I followed the ED Kickstarter progress for a while but I didn't have a PC so I didn't back it then and I lost interest when the whole scrapping of offline mode thing happened. I only eventually got the game when it appeared on PS4 last spring.

I play ED in Solo 99% of the time, the other 1% is dropping into a PG very rarely. I see ED, as I play it anyway, pretty much like an updated F:E2 (except F:E2 had atmospheric planetary landings which ED doesn't yet) and I'm actually fairly happy with it that way. I'd love it to have some of the deeper content mentioned already (persistent developing NPCs, etc) and other enhancements it could have with today's tech and I'd happily lose the multiplayer aspect if that was dragging those things down. I'm just not into multiplayer games much, I like playing games in my own little world, and I also generally dislike the idea of games requiring an internet connection in order to work.

One of my favourite other 'own-little-world' games is Skyrim (yet I have no interest at all in Elder Scrolls Online, of course). In a way, if ED was narratively more like Skyrim, with all the multiple, deep, diverse and intertwining plot threads based around characters and locations, the excellent varied RNG quests, the developing and scaling NPCs - including followers and companions - then I'd be very happy.

As it is though, I still enjoy ED the way I play it now. It is what it is. And this is just me as I said, a lot of people like multiplayer games. I'd rather have Elite Dangerous as is than nothing.

- Having said that I haven't played ED much since Christmas, a couple of other games distracted me for the moment, but I'm looking forward to some of the Beyond stuff coming up so I will go back to it soon no doubt.
 
Would Elite Dangerous have been been better as an offline, single player game?
Yes.
Has Elite as an MMO provided a better experience than it could have if it hadn't made this evolution?
No.

But I could probably be a bit more helpful than that... :p

Pretty obviously, you ask a question like this, then for the most part what you'll get back is responses based on how people feel about the game, rather than based on dispassionate empirical analysis of it.

My feeling is that Elite 1984 was a single-player game. So was Frontier. So was First Encounters. There was nothing about the lore, setting or nature of any of these games that lends itself well to multiplayer, and this is especially the case for the latter two: Elite 84 was a huge game for its time, but FE2 and FFE were dizzyingly so. There simply wasn't a need to put any two players in the same instance of a connected world -- at least more than would have been possible with a local, direct peer-to-peer connection if they really, really insisted they had to fly together. The galaxy is just too big. We already have people complaining that there isn't enough player density for 'proper' mass multiplayer action; yet in implementing a multiplayer environment, we've sacrificed much that might have helped ED really take off.

(And I'll put my usual disclaimer in here and say that I love this game and it's my automatic go-to whenever I have free computer time. I generally say that in most respects ED is a magnificent remake of the original Elite. What it isn't, in my eyes, is the Elite 4 I'd hoped would one day appear.)

I could list a number of gameplay elements I think have suffered from the decision to make ED a pseudo-MMO. A recent thread talked about the ease of getting around the galaxy - as demonstrated by the speed with which the first ships reached Sagittarius A* once the Bubble was opened up. Yet in Frontier and First Encounters, such a journey would have been far more challenging, since every maximum-distance witch-jump would have taken a week of game time: these two games had an ingenious hyperspace model, which meant that every witch-drive (Frontier's FSD) covered its maximum distance in seven days, with lesser jumps proportionally faster.

That's one gameplay example: it can't be used in ED because time has to be synced for everyone -- so short of making players wait a real-time week to jump their FSD range, the only workaround was to have FSD jumps take a few seconds, no matter how far. As a result, the galaxy, no matter its massive number of stars and planets, is relatively tiny and easy to get around.

Aside from gameplay, I think ED lost a lot from the fact that, as a multiplayer, always-on game, it shut out what I'm sure would have been a keen modding community. You've only to look at the peripheral tools and cosmetic modifications people have created: all the trading websites, the ship-fitting tools, the OCR readers to work around the more glaring functional gaps in the game itself. Now imagine what these people could have done if they'd been let loose on a game that was entirely contained within its own client software on the player's own machine. And I know it's been suggested that a home machine couldn't possibly handle the background simulation on its own -- although it's also been suggested that a single-player mode was seriously considered, so I'm not sure I'm inclined to accept that. Someone, at some point, clearly thought it could be done.

But imagine an ED with a proper, detailed trade feature modded in, or libraries of custom-built mission types for download from modding sites; extra ship models; adjusted flight dynamics; more detailed ship controls, an improved Air Traffic Control system at space stations and settlements; a whole swathe of astronomical features and phenomena; exploration or mining sub-games that actually demanded an element of skill... These are only the few things I can think of given my specific areas of interest: I'm sure combat pilots could come up with countless more. And if anyone doubts that the players would or could come up with this sort of thing, you've only to look at how Oolite has been expanded by its own community -- or, if not that, then consider Microsoft's Flight Simulator, with every new release fleshed out and expanded almost beyond recognition by enthusiastic fans. Anyone remember Falcon 4.0, the old military flight sim? If so, do you remember the 'Superpatch', which essentially rewrote the entire game from the ground up, and made a highly detailed and dynamic flight simulation vastly more of both?

This was, in my view, one of the biggest losses to ED, and is a direct result of the decision to crowbar multiplayer into the game.

I also think the game's suffered from "doesn't-quite-know-what-it-wants-to-be" syndrome. The desire to give everyone the chance to "Play Your Way" is admirable, but isn't fully supported by a massively-multiplayer environment, because there will always be players who want to stop you Playing Your Way, and make your Play Their Way instead. Ah, but, there's an opportunity to use Solo mode -- but the interaction of the modes with each other has been a constant point of contention on these forums since the game's inception. To say that Solo, Private Group and Open sit uncomfortably together is a massive understatement -- and I'm not going to cover the reasons the various factions have given for their views on this, because there have been many thousands of posts on the subject already.

If, though, ED had had a single-player mode, or been a single-player game, I'm reasonably sure that there wouldn't have been half the difficulty over this.

So yes, I think ED would have benefitted greatly from being designed as a single-player game. It wouldn't have been contentious in the first instance, because it would have been perfectly consistent with every previous Elite game -- and they always had a multiplayer feel to them anyway. I remember as a kid swapping space stories with my friends who also played, as we explored the eight galaxies of Elite. And I'll admit a lot of the stories we told each other were exaggerated bull, but that was sort of the point: we had a lot of fun doing it, and we all felt a little like adventurous space pilots, discovering the galaxies on our own, in our own way.
 
believe it or not, the only time I play ED now is what I am playing with a mate. Even if on the Private Server

I don't think I could play SP now.
 
And the MMO nature of the game means that it will be updated and supported for quite a long time, something that can't be said about most single player games.

I'd have said Mod supported single player games tend to have MORE longevity than MMOs...
Rome Total War Mods are still played more and a better experience than Rome 2 (dates back to 2004) Falcon 4 BMS...arguably the BEST Modern Flight Sim available still being improved and developed (dates back to 1999) IL2 Forgotten Battles - with Mods far more widely played and a better experience then the new Battle of Stalingrad (dates back to 2003) etc etc...the list is long!
 
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