Engineers Emmisive. Broken.

Just a quick issue i'd like to raise concerning emmisive rounds. Every other effect has a very short timer, why is it that emmisive lasts for pushing 25/30 seconds? This effect as it stands breaks any sort of SR builds any player can come up with. Now im not saying its a bad effect here, but it does have a broken mechanic. It should be applied (in my opinion) only when continually striking the target, NOT a default 30 seconds where you cant evade missle lock/tracking, As it stands coupling this with packhounds means silent running builds are more or less redundant in the PvP sect all together (couple this with the unbalanced shields and hull tanks can't) I'm sure theres a good portion of the community who agree this effect is far more effective to have than it should be and would support a fix for the effect. Any input would be good, I wanna know what you guys think! :D
 
When FD hit something with the nerf hammer, they hit hard. Stealth/hull tank builds haven't really been worth using for some time.
 
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Emissive is not broken, and it is a subtle effect compared to, say, scramble spectrum so it deserves to work for longer.

As others have observed, if you're still using an SR build for pvp....well, it means one of two things; either you don't look into what's effective in the current 'meta', or you've done so many thousands of hours pvp that you're at the stage where you can disregard 'the meta' and still come out on top.
By the way, I used to like SR builds and I still have a few that I use for Thargoid fights - smaller ships (FAS is good) with no shield and hull tanked to oblivion are great in this application and don't get ripped up as badly as the big three do when you try the same with those (and yes I ate a 25mil rebuy to bring you that tip!).
 
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Are you still talking about emissive? It amps up the target ship sig radius, it doesn't prevent retaliation at all....
 
I agree, emmisive definitely makes silent running builds pretty useless atm but it's not the only issue. Hull tanks in general are losing out whenever shields get buffed such as with the new engineering as there's still no way engineer MRP's or canopy's and protect external modules.

There's a good thread about it here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/419688-Let-s-Fix-Shields-Down-Combat?highlight=let's+fix

We could really do with a few changes to breathe some new life into hull tanks so the FDL no longer reigns supreme.
 
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Yeah i got the OP's point, but I missed yours entirely.....I don't know which bit is an exploit (or whatever you meant by 'borderline exploit' - it seems a pretty binary choice to me) about silent running builds.
 
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Annoyed that his gimbals don't work against them.
Well, I'd use fixed, it's just that I'm obviously not as awesome as you are. I mean, I could try, but who would I be kidding? You're obviously so awesome that you can land fixed projectile weapons reliably without any kind of reticle, and know where your opponent is without a radar.
/Sigh, I guess some people were just made to use fixed weapons, and be unequivocally better than everyone else. Guess the meta has really gone to hell since most people run gimbals these days. Must be frustrating for awesome people like you, having to play the game with all these scrubs and their gimbals. Chin up, mate. People will realise how much better you are than them soon enough.


In that case I've nothing to add, none of my pvp builds involve gimbals. (I also lose most of my fights; please don't take that comment as some leet pvp boast!)
Dude, you really need to work on identifying when people are being facetious.
 
Stealth builds are designed to keep the ship at a heat level that is undetectable by enemy radar, either for the opening salvo, and/or for a high amount of the ensuring firefight. Both types allow players to approach targets unaware and get an upper hand from the start of the engagement, tilting the resulting fight in their favor. The latter then continues the fight with the opponent unable to utilise their radar, which is necessary for gimbals, turrets and missiles to function, and also makes aiming fixed projectile weapons substantially more difficult due to the lack of a predictive reticle, not to mention you need to eyeball the target perpetually as you can't use the radar to determine their position.

I personally hate cheap tactics that give an opponent an unfair advantage, but I'm also aware that that position doesn't constitute the title of exploit. An exploit is, by definition, using a system in a way other than intended. Given FDev has applied multiple patches (some of which break basic mechanics, like turrets not needing a lock to return fire and CMDRs showing up on radar regardless of heat once they open fire), not to mention implementing emissive exclusively to counter heatsink spam, it's safe to say that players being invisible to radar throughout a firefight is not something FDev intended when they designed the combat aspect of the game, therefore, it's an exploit. Despite this, the stealth opener is still on the table, it's not until you're in the fight that emissive becomes relevant, and as FDev have done nothing to prevent stealth openers, it doesn't meet the title of exploit, but it's certainly in the same realm, hence, "borderline exploit".

Nerfing emissive isn't going to bring back stealth builds, FDev have nerfed them into oblivion in more ways than one. But, in my opinion, we don't need to be giving stealth PvP a buff, even if it's a minor one. Cheapshotting should stay dead. Then again, I'm hardly the most experienced PvPer, and thought weighing in in a more comprehensive manner would be above my pay grade, so I made my earlier comment short.
 
I agree, emmisive definitely makes silent running builds pretty useless atm but it's not the only issue. Hull tanks in general are losing out whenever shields get buffed such as with the new engineering as there's still no way engineer MRP's or canopy's and protect external modules.

There's a good thread about it here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/419688-Let-s-Fix-Shields-Down-Combat?highlight=let's+fix

We could really do with a few changes to breathe some new life into hull tanks so the FDL no longer reigns supreme.
There are too many effects that occur on hulls and not shields that makes it really lopsided. Those effects should be more equal between effects on shielded targets and hulls.
 
Yeah essentially its overly one sided, and as for the emmisive providing a reticule, you already get one as soon as your opponent fires his weapons, if matey who claims to be able to shoot fixed actually could, he wouldnt be whining about it being a broken mechanic.

It was nerfed with that in mind, to allow targeting when firing, stealth builds should be more viable, there should not be and auto "i win" button for any build. Emmisive is exactly that, stealth build? not with emmisive, die A^*hole. The effect is straight another bias nail in the coffin for shileds down combat, same as god shields, missle splash damage, the lack of module strength and the fact that scrub weapons like the aforementioned emmisive, frags and packhounds are super effective vs hull even when compared to plasma and cannons.
 
Stealth builds are designed to keep the ship at a heat level that is undetectable by enemy radar, either for the opening salvo, and/or for a high amount of the ensuring firefight. Both types allow players to approach targets unaware and get an upper hand from the start of the engagement, tilting the resulting fight in their favor. The latter then continues the fight with the opponent unable to utilise their radar, which is necessary for gimbals, turrets and missiles to function, and also makes aiming fixed projectile weapons substantially more difficult due to the lack of a predictive reticle, not to mention you need to eyeball the target perpetually as you can't use the radar to determine their position.

I personally hate cheap tactics that give an opponent an unfair advantage, but I'm also aware that that position doesn't constitute the title of exploit. An exploit is, by definition, using a system in a way other than intended. Given FDev has applied multiple patches (some of which break basic mechanics, like turrets not needing a lock to return fire and CMDRs showing up on radar regardless of heat once they open fire), not to mention implementing emissive exclusively to counter heatsink spam, it's safe to say that players being invisible to radar throughout a firefight is not something FDev intended when they designed the combat aspect of the game, therefore, it's an exploit. Despite this, the stealth opener is still on the table, it's not until you're in the fight that emissive becomes relevant, and as FDev have done nothing to prevent stealth openers, it doesn't meet the title of exploit, but it's certainly in the same realm, hence, "borderline exploit".

Nerfing emissive isn't going to bring back stealth builds, FDev have nerfed them into oblivion in more ways than one. But, in my opinion, we don't need to be giving stealth PvP a buff, even if it's a minor one. Cheapshotting should stay dead. Then again, I'm hardly the most experienced PvPer, and thought weighing in in a more comprehensive manner would be above my pay grade, so I made my earlier comment short.
Is silent running supposed to be 100% effective before shots fired? Because i noticed a guy in SR before combat starts and I wonder why I am able to see and target him. Is it a bug or something about my build that enables that?
 
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