Engineering and Pre-Built Ships

[MartinG]

• Reducing the number of materials required for Engineering.

Yes pretty please. Especially personal equipment Engineering.

• Increasing payout of engineering materials from missions.

Long overdue.

• Increasing backpack capacity.

I hope you mean storage capacity — backpack capacity is fine, ship storage for Odyssey materials is not.

With the current Engineering requirements, a 1000 items limit is barely passable for goods, at least 2 times too low for data, and at least 3 times too low for assets. And a limit of 1000 items total for fleet carrier storage is an unfunny joke.

[Edited to make is clear I mean Odyssey materials.]

 

[Xenogenics]

If I can spend thousands of dollars on mobile in-app purchases because I can, you can be sure I'll spend that much on the store if the perceived value of the price for convenience and satisfaction is roughly the same.

There is a market for casual spenders, and there is a market for whales. I work for money and want to use that money to buy progress in-game so that I don't have to spend my time grinding and spend that time working for more money to spend for more in-game progess.

 

[CMDR IDRATHERBERIDIN]

You can rebuy your pre-built ships for free every time. However if you modify the ship with credit purchased modules then you would need to rebuy that cost.

This strikes me as potentially problematic. Let's say I buy a pre-built ship and go on a ganking murder spree.....

 

[Sublime]

2) I disagree with the rebuy costs being zero. That is a gankers and griefers dream ship. A zero rebuy ship will allow every new player to take their ARX ship that skipped all the in game loops, and gank/grief everyone, everywhere and have zero cost to them if and when they finally die. You cannot be serious about that. I recommend the ARX purchase is an unlock that will allow for rebuys for credits, now or later, if a Cmdr dies. If a Cmdr changes the ARX purchased ship and dies and does not have the credits to rebuy now, they would lose only the changes to the ARX unlock as the ARX unlock can be purchased for credits at any time...

You’re not going to be able to gank anything in those prebuilt ships. We don’t even know if they will release pre built gank ships but even if they do, look who’s designing them. They’ll probably put mining lances on them.

They’ve already said that anything you add to the ship will need to go through the rebuy process and they’ll need a lot of expensive additions to make them gank ships.

 

[S3NS3R]

A mining ship that can't scan hot spots, sounds like a scam to me

 

[Rat Catcher]

Let's say I buy a pre-built ship and go on a ganking murder spree.....

You'd be having fun...
You will still get a bounty for each ship, unless you operate exclusively in an anrchy, won't you? After all, even in a normal ship, rebuy cost is forgettably small.

 

[CMDR IDRATHERBERIDIN]

This strikes me as potentially problematic. Let's say I buy a pre-built ship and go on a ganking murder spree.....

You'd be having fun...
You will still get a bounty for each ship, unless you operate exclusively in an anrchy, won't you? After all, even in a normal ship, rebuy cost is forgettably small.

Fun, yes. In terms of how easy it is to get credits compared with how it used to be, rebuys are small - even if you're flying your over-engineered Cutter. But no rebuy is a fundamental gameplay change. Increasing notoriety can run up a pretty huge bounty that can make a rebuy look like a drop in the bucket over a very short period of time (ask me how I know).

 

[ferus]

What

Exactly

Will those who invested in FD/Elite with the Lifetime Expansion Pass be getting among these rollouts?

Don’t hold your breath.
LEP means absolutely nothing these days (years).

 

[CMDR IDRATHERBERIDIN]

You’re not going to be able to gank anything in those prebuilt ships. We don’t even know if they will release pre built gank ships but even if they do, look who’s designing them. They’ll probably put mining lances on them.

They’ve already said that anything you add to the ship will need to go through the rebuy process and they’ll need a lot of expensive additions to make them gank ships.

Many gankers hunt in packs. Lone wolves can often times be avoided by dropping out of SC and jumping away from the system, and reasonably built-up ships can usually Hi-wake out, even after the interdiction. Most successful ganks come down to squishy builds and/or panic.

 

[cameld00d]

If you purchase a pre built ship and cannibalize its modules for other ships, do those modules not contribute to the rebuys of said ships?

 

[ferus]

• Reducing the number of materials required for Engineering.
• Increasing payout of engineering materials from missions.
• Increasing backpack capacity.

Good changes in my opinion but they come waaaaay too late.
Players have been asking for this for so long.

But who knows, we might even get a proper and sensible fleet carrier refueling in another 5 years.

 

[Weps]

If you purchase a pre built ship and cannibalize its modules for other ships, do those modules not contribute to the rebuys of said ships?

My guess is they will be 0 cost modules, identical to the ones you unlock from technology brokers from mats or the ones you get from CGs. They will have 0 rebuy and a fixed 100cr transfer cost for example.

So yes, in theory it will be easier to put together a 0-rebuy ship, by buying maybe more than one pre-built, using the airframe base that you want and combining modules from the pre-builts, maybe together with some of your own modules, preengineered ones etc.

 

[salek]

This strikes me as potentially problematic. Let's say I buy a pre-built ship and go on a ganking murder spree.....

What ganker worth his salt isn't already a multi-billionaire? A perfectly-built ganker FDL/Mamba has rebuy of like 5m credits. Rebuy just doesn't matter once you're a few hundred hours into the game..

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox IV]

I don't think the engineering changes will work. They will make it easier to maintain a full stockpile once you have it, but it won't do anything to solve the problem of new players getting to engineering and needing half a dozen things they've never even seen before.

There are some simple tweaks that could be made to ameliorate this problem. For Wake data, you should be able to fly through the wake, and get the data and a small credit payout, to encourage new players to do it. Wake scanners are power intensive, and waste a vital utility slot on smaller ships. They should not be a prerequisite for getting the data, just for seeing where the wake is going at range. Wakes should also have a minor visual effect, to catch the eye and attract curious players.

When it comes to manufactured materials, combat players leave behind more of them than they could ever possibly need. The problem is, it is very frustrating and unsatisfying to need to stop and deploy collector limpets, or manually scoop up, these materials, not to mention the loss of crucial optional slots. What we really need is a material-specific method of collection, such that a player can simply fly near a cloud of materials, open their cargo hatch, and reel them in in a matter of seconds. This, too, should give a small credit reward, to encourage new players to do it. Current methods are simply too slow and frustrating.

The problem with raw materials is that there is very little reason to just wander around on the surface of planets, unless you are deliberately hunting for materials. A solution for this problem would be a new type of mission, where players are dispatched to locate, scan, and destroy a crashed meteorite. Engineer bases in particular should offer these types of missions in abundance, with each different mission specifying what type of material the meteorite will contain. Players should not need to Google how to get raw materials, and then end up being directed to a crystal site 1,000 light years away.

These three changes alone will dramatically improve the starting player engineering experience, making it far more likely that when they reach the engineers base, they will not find themselves needing to acquire half a dozen or more different material types just to progress. Instead, they will already have a small Trove of materials with which to get started, making the acquisition of remaining materials far more palatable.

It really doesn't matter how easy FDev makes it, it will always seem too hard or time consuming to new players who never experienced how it once was. You can get mats by running missions for the factions, some of these will be surface missions so you can pew pew a few rocks while you're there. You can get data just by targeting ships as you fly around and you can drop in on signal sources. If you're in a hurry you can visit the Jameson crash site. It is a similar situation for mechanical and raw and there are material traders where you can swap what you have for what you need. However I feel FDev is intending to make the game more casual player friendly so I wouldn't be surprised if you'll be able to purchase materials at mats traders, most likely with ARX which you don't need buy with real money as you can earn it just by playing the game but we all know that some players will part with cash to do it. I'm ok with that as long as there is nothing in the game that can't be achieved by grinding as we do now. Indeed I look forward to the posts on the many forums of salty zero skill pay to advance peeps complaining about how they got handed their a#se by someone in a Viper.

 

[EWanderer]

Seeing you want to take another crack at engineering, sure is a good thing.
You forgot one thing imo:
Improve pickup of materials in space, at least for materials generated by destroying ships.
It would be the most reliable method to acquire combat engineering related materials, if not for the tedium required be that doing it by hand or waiting for a limpet to do the job.
Either just bundle them up with bounty vouchers rather than dropping stuff or if thats to hard an autopickup by proximity.

 

[Sublime]

My guess is they will be 0 cost modules, identical to the ones you unlock from technology brokers from mats or the ones you get from CGs. They will have 0 rebuy and a fixed 100cr transfer cost for example.

So yes, in theory it will be easier to put together a 0-rebuy ship, by buying maybe more than one pre-built, using the airframe base that you want and combining modules from the pre-builts, maybe together with some of your own modules, preengineered ones etc.

But that’s spending a lot of real life money to avoid or decrease paying something that is trivial and overall of no consequence (rebuy costs). Nobody at that level, gameplay wise, has to give any thought to credits anymore.

 

[StefanOS]

You can rebuy your pre-built ships for free every time. However if you modify the ship with credit purchased modules then you would need to rebuy that cost.

How do you rebuy something for free?
Do they get their pre-build ship back with or without paying any ingame credit rebuy cost?
If this is the case the destruction will loose any meaning for the owner - only the cargo would be lost.
I think this fear is a part of flying a ship, even if you don't loose your life, you loose some credits.

 

[Exeider]

Ok perhaps my previous post was a bit too far.

So what do I have to say, well frankly I'm concerned. I'm concerned that having prebuilt ships for real life money will incentivize Fdev to do the following

1) Lower credit payout across the board
2) Lower engineering material drops

In effect, make the grind this game already has even more grind-y, because after all you have to create justification for people buying the ships, and yes I'm not a fool to think the offerings will stay with in this milquetoast offering that one can achieve in a few days of playing.

Look, I know for once, I can say this isn't being done out of greed, as ironically many reactionaries are accusing Fdev of doing. I can say that's not the case, it's not greed, it's desperation. I know Fdev has had some rough years as of late so I get it. the recent set of lay offs as a form of cost savings to try and stem the bleeding. But trying to convert this game into a pay 2 win cash grab scheme is not the way to do it.

And before the critics reading this say "But the offerings aren't exploitative, it's not really grind-y" etc. Keep in mind that's right NOW, the major changes haven't had a chance to take effect yet. They will be slowly introduced over time to allow you to acclimate it, to rationalize each tiny step. because that' how it has to be done to avoid the average player noticing and grabbing the torches and pitchforks. Right now it's just to get you to accept the premise, the idea of paying real money for ships/modules, stuff that you can easily get in game. And then they will dial it up, a little more, then a little more and so on.

In a few years of doing this, you won't recognize this game. And more over, if later down the line, someone buys out Frontier or the second coming of Braben happens, whatever, turning the ship around then, will be a mighty and costly task that will basically eat up whatever savings or money generated by this and then some. Pay 2 Win is ultimately self defeating. This is why mediocre games do it because they are intentional cash grabs. But Elite has love and care attached to it. but also a bit of abuse. And it's something we should stand up for.

There has to be better ways of trying to generate cash for the company Fdev.

 

[Exeider]

If this is the case the destruction will loose any meaning for the owner - only the cargo would be lost.

Well...... let's be honest, that already happens. When you get to a certain net worth in this game, that literally happens as a natural course of evolution during the player's career.

 

[StefanOS]

Greetings Commanders, 

We wanted to give you a heads up on our plans for Engineering coming later this year and share a first look at two of the Pre-Built ships that will be hitting the Gamestore in May. 

Read more: https://elitedangerous.com/news/engineering-and-pre-built-ships

Regarding engineering.
I hope FD considers to let the Bartender trade # all # materials (not just some of it as it is now) - this small change would reduce the time consuming search for materials that don't spawn very often - or down span at all because of a bug.
I think this change is very easy to implement and would make a huge difference - > because it would give you an alternative way to get these materials instead of simply do dozens of repeating raids at the same settlement that are needed now to get enough of these low spawning materials.
Additional the number of different material needed for low tear engineering should be small and increase with the tear, just like in the ship mod. engineering