Engineering and Pre-Built Ships

[Martind Forlon]

For engineering changes: imo amounts are much less a problem than is RNG which is tied to some materials/data or the need to find/know mix of conditions (info is not available in the game, you need to search on external sites) to get better chances for more favourable RNG. Make needs for upgrades more logical, more predicable and reduce RNG as much as possible. There is so much content for having fun with in ED, RNG is not one of them

 

[Exeider]

Regarding engineering.
I hope FD considers to let the Bartender trade # all # materials (not just some of it as it is now) - this small change would reduce the time consuming search for materials that don't spawn very often - or down span at all because of a bug.
I think this easy change would make a huge difference.

I would like it if they were to give on foot materials a second or even third pass. I have ship engineering figured out down pat, I know where to go, what to do, and even if it's a bit grindy I know that at the end of it I will have my finished product, Odyssey has been out how long, and I have not for the life of me figured out how on foot engineering works, nor how to get the materials without being a thieving mass murderer. I mean I looked up the engineering path for just night vision, NIGHT VISION, and it was some ridiculous path and all I wanted night vision for was exploration. because my ship has it, my SRV has it, my SLF has it. But my suit doesn't have it. And look I don't mind if its a bit of a journey, but like I said, I haven't been able to wrap my brain around it and I'm usually pretty good about those sort of things.

 

[Northpin]

How do you rebuy something for free?
Do they get their pre-build ship back with or without paying any ingame credit rebuy cost?
If this is the case the destruction will loose any meaning for the owner - only the cargo would be lost.
I think this fear is a part of flying a ship, even if you don't loose your life, you loose some credits.

The rebuy costs are rather meaningless (the ships are not fully A-rated so the modules rebuy wont cost a fortune anyways)

As far as death penalties go - it was always what you lose besides the credits that was the nasty part (missions, cargo, bounties and vouchers, exploration data and visited system info, exobio data etc) plus the relocation to a respawn point especially if you are far out in the black.
Credits? nah, not an issue

 

[Northpin]

Anyways, as long the prebuild ships have no engineering, they're fine to me.... however skipping the unlocks (especially guardian stuff) is quite a downer

 

[Schattenmacher]

For me this is a pointless idea that no one needs.

If you want to make money in the shop, then sell me:

• A Super FSD with 200ly range (without negative effects that break everything)
• A new explorer ship lightweight, with many internal module slots (without military)
• Special modules that are really an improvement.

Just a few examples...

 

[SwingFish]

You can rebuy your pre-built ships for free every time. However if you modify the ship with credit purchased modules then you would need to rebuy that cost.

oh wow, i guess that also means the end to open play ... since this will make ganking the new sport.
buy a ship in the store and just attack anyone and everything, since you won't need to re-purchase your losses.
skill is not required anymore, as you can just hop in a new boat and do it again. making all players in open crash-test-dummies.

you guy's can't be serious about this!

 

[SteveWW57]

I would like it if they were to give on foot materials a second or even third pass. I have ship engineering figured out down pat, I know where to go, what to do, and even if it's a bit grindy I know that at the end of it I will have my finished product, Odyssey has been out how long, and I have not for the life of me figured out how on foot engineering works, nor how to get the materials without being a thieving mass murderer. I mean I looked up the engineering path for just night vision, NIGHT VISION, and it was some ridiculous path and all I wanted night vision for was exploration. because my ship has it, my SRV has it, my SLF has it. But my suit doesn't have it. And look I don't mind if its a bit of a journey, but like I said, I haven't been able to wrap my brain around it and I'm usually pretty good about those sort of things.

Sent you a DM with a location on one.

It will be gone in the morning.

Steve

 

[Flimley]

I would like it if they were to give on foot materials a second or even third pass. I have ship engineering figured out down pat, I know where to go, what to do, and even if it's a bit grindy I know that at the end of it I will have my finished product, Odyssey has been out how long, and I have not for the life of me figured out how on foot engineering works, nor how to get the materials without being a thieving mass murderer. I mean I looked up the engineering path for just night vision, NIGHT VISION, and it was some ridiculous path and all I wanted night vision for was exploration. because my ship has it, my SRV has it, my SLF has it. But my suit doesn't have it. And look I don't mind if its a bit of a journey, but like I said, I haven't been able to wrap my brain around it and I'm usually pretty good about those sort of things.

Exactly the same here!! Bloody night vision, only wanted this for exploration. And It is the one thing i haven't bothered with. I think i need to complete six stealth missions now to finally unlock the appropriate engineer. But after the endless pointless running around to get to this stage. I just gave up. It's s load of....


Flimley

 

[aRJay]

Anyways, as long the prebuild ships have no engineering, they're fine to me.... however skipping the unlocks (especially guardian stuff) is quite a downer

Well it’s not so much they are skipping the unlocks they are just getting a the weapons on that ship if they want anything else they will have to unlock it.
A bit like my Federal ships which I got via a Christmas CG event long before I had the rank to get another one.

 

[dj_wylie]

Personally I would have liked to see slightly better modules and more engineering on those pre builts. Something actually useful for many players. As they are now I don't think many will be interested in them outside the occasional noob.

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

What ganker worth his salt isn't already a multi-billionaire? A perfectly-built ganker FDL/Mamba has rebuy of like 5m credits. Rebuy just doesn't matter once you're a few hundred hours into the game..

I have watched a stream or two on Twitch and a video or two on YT with gankers showing how they get things done in ED. Every one I watched had only millions and not billions on the account they were on. They are constantly rebuying their ship and paying off fines, so yeah money is a problem for addicted to being a murder hobo gankers.
I think it comes down to, that is the only gameplay they enjoy in Elite and it has some costs associated to it. They also seemed to sit around forever waiting for someone to show up, and if no one did, they would fight each other till one ship goes boom. Interesting gameplay choices.

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

Personally I would have liked to see slightly better modules and more engineering on those pre builts. Something actually useful for many players. As they are now I don't think many will be interested in them outside the occasional noob.

And I am the exact opposite. I want to see zero engineering on the pre builts and fully A rated modules. I just watched a Twitch streamer take a copy he built of the Chieftan to Indra for bombing runs and he solo'd two clops with it, as is. It worked fine, for him. I have my doubts I would be able to do the same in that ship.

Engineering and Tharg content is end game, Fdev says these builds are starter packs, but I have my doubts on that if they continue to offer g5 engineered ships with zero rebuy costs. I fully expect some new to Elite and or new to ganking/griefing commanders to try out any potential ship hulls for that purpose. For the first two ships, that would be the Chieftain. The zero rebuy is a major cost savings over the long term. End result will most likely be even less players in open.

Edited: added Chieftain as the ship I was referring to

 

[Ian Skippy]

I have watched a stream or two on Twitch and a video or two on YT with gankers showing how they get things done in ED. Every one I watched had only millions and not billions on the account they were on. They are constantly rebuying their ship and paying off fines, so yeah money is a problem for addicted to being a murder hobo gankers.
I think it comes down to, that is the only gameplay they enjoy in Elite and it has some costs associated to it. They also seemed to sit around forever waiting for someone to show up, and if no one did, they would fight each other till one ship goes boom. Interesting gameplay choices.

1) Anyone who gets ganked by those prefab ships deserves it. If some ganker kills me with those checks notes 2x class 1 modified mining lasers I should be forced to retake my pilots exam.
2) No ganker dies in this game unless he wants to anyway, a proper PvP ship is always able to high-wake or legal-log way before you can destroy it.
3) No halfway decent ganker has any money issues in this game, ever. With today's earnings you can lose four corvettes per hour. Given how sturdy they are, it is almost impossible to lose four PvP corvettes per hour even if you tried to .

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

The Chieftan is the ship I was referring to, which I did not say, I'll go edit that in. And I expect gankers will want the hull only and throw the rest of the modules out, except for the G5 DD. That ships has 2 mc's and 2 gauss cannons. And the rebuy will be only the modules replaced, so basically nothing

1) Anyone who gets ganked by those prefab ships deserves it. If some ganker kills me with those checks notes 2x class 1 modified mining lasers I should be forced to retake my pilots exam.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The Chieftan is the ship I was referring to, which I did not say, I'll go edit that in. And I expect gankers will want the hull only and throw the rest of the modules out, except for the G5 DD. That ships has 2 mc's and 2 gauss cannons. And the rebuy will be only the modules replaced, so basically nothing

The insurance for the hull of a chieftain is 900k. It is trivial to earn 150 million in an hour. I can earn 600 million on a rainy Sunday evening and then lose around 700 chieftain hulls. Assuming it takes me on average 15 minutes to even find an opponent, interdict and then somehow die (which would be an amazing feat to accomplish, dying 700 times in a chieftain unless you really really want to), and I play eight hours a day, every day, of every week, I can non-stop die for three weeks.

Playing every day, eight hours.

Doing nothing but finding someone to kill me, dying, and finding a new person to kill me.

Over and over.

700 times.

Its a complete non-issue.

 

[Elden Hastur]

Why stop there? You can do A LOT to make this game trully profitable! Need some ideas? Here you go!
Battlepass and premium battlepass are obvious options. Put some ARX in it, a couple of paintjobs (vibrant purple or something like that), a bit of materials, engineered modules and of course a bit of credits. As I can see, a lot of people don't like mats grinding, so put mats into ARX store that will solve any issues with the grind. But there are players who don't like engineering at all, so here is the solution - just sell engineered module in ARX stor. ED is well known for PVP aspect, so lets make PVPers life a bit more exciting - put double engineered or even tripple edngineered modules in the store and make every battle in the game unpredictable! And you forgot about a great feature of ED that also could use some love - BGS. Want to remove any faction from any system - just get a brand new mercenary squad for 21235 ARX and they will do all the work for you! Make the same item for somebody who wants to put his faction in the system. Let the ARX wars begin NOW! That will add so much fun to the game! There are a lot of undiscovered systems out there, but they are too far for a regular player. So you can implemnt a new item - NAME WASHER. With this item ANY player can put his nickname anywhere he wants. Faction rank system could use some attention too! ARX BRIBE can make players life a lot easier! For a little price of 32675 ARX you can be an admiral or even a king without any problems. Do you remeber Hotel California thread? Yeah you guessed it right! Just make Solo and Private Group time passes required to play solo or in PG.
And there is a lot more great and exciting ideas of how to destroy make ED great!

 

[EvoBeardy]

Personally I would have liked to see slightly better modules and more engineering on those pre builts. Something actually useful for many players. As they are now I don't think many will be interested in them outside the occasional noob.

That's largely the point I think.
The Ships need to be useful enough to get new/returning/existing player's foot in the door and experience said scenario with a reasonable level.
Then proceed to fine-tune, Engineer fully and alter it to be what it needs to be.
So instead of time>experience>enjoyment, it's going more like experience>enjoyment>time.
My Friend recently picked up the game, he played briefly over an Xmas holiday a few years back to started a fresh.
We wanted to get into AX combat with him, but he didn't have combat experience, nor the ships/funds.

Three weeks in, he's finally got an AspX with A-rated modules and has the hang of RES.
He still needs to do Engineering, gathering the necessary Materials for that and the unlocking of, and then earn more for the next Ship, A-rate those and rinse/repeat.
Yep, something we've all done and I've done some Engineering of course, both on this current system and the Legacy Engineering, 17+ fully Engineered Ships with their own modules, and then some Legacy/unused Engineered items in storage. It's something I'm not against, having done it myself.
However, for a foot-in-the-door scenario like what's on the table, I envisaged a Ship with D-A rated components that have some G1 (up to MAYBE G3 in a few other areas) Engineered items.
The loadout/Engineering not being completely optimal, so they still have enough to work on in the future, but enough to get started and enjoying the ventures. Aside from the G5 DD on the Chief, it seems like FDEV are looking at it with a similar approach.

That's my take, at least.

 

[selbie]

I'll preface this by saying it is not so much a complaint but rather me just expressing my individual experience which is fairly different from the high-level end game knowledge of many players here.

As long-time casual player who only just got a chance to experience some of the Guardian content for the first time recently, it was a little soul-crushing to see that one of the best items out of that experience can now be obtained with zero effort - the cherry on top being that it is also modified and thus avoiding another step for no rewarding effort.

What this is telling me is that any experience in the game is now exposed to potential monetized time-skips. In a general business context that is a sensible option to provide for players, but the game product in question does not YET adequately facilitate a free, slightly slower pathway to the same item. When the difference in ability to time-skip is significantly noticeable, it cheapens the overall rewarding experiences and I urge FDev to pay close attention to those time differences and bring the two avenues closer together. If you keep those time gaps too far apart, the product itself will undermine all this effort to improve revenue.

I can only hope the improvements to Engineering are attempting to bridge that gap and there are many gameplay opportunities to make the acquisition of ships and parts even more rewarding. For example, what if we could discover abandoned shipwrecks on planets equipped with a random set of pre-built components. We simply spend a proportional amount of time repairing the ship with materials gathered in the local vicinity and receive a pre-built ship. The real icing on the cake would be if these wrecks had better items than the ARX store pre-builts and special skins that are unique, so then it becomes a choice of immediate convenience vs slower but rewarding treasure hunt.

The galaxy is an unfathomably huge play space in Elite, and I am certainly all for making access to its massive expanse more convenient and immediate, but that will only succeed if the proposed paid gateway has an equally sized free gateway right beside it.

 

[Counter Arts]

The builds are in the right place in that they are starter kits and DESIGNED to be upgraded as nice-to-haves. They should definitely be below the "meta" but enough to get started.

Not to mention I don't think these builds are going to overcome not having player skill. This isn't a turn-based RPG.

But the question remains... will I be able to buy multiple copies of the same pre-builds?

 

[St0rmFury]

Any ganker worth his salt will never have to worry about rebuy because:

1. They only go after prey who can't fight back like traders & explorers
2. Gankers are notorious for combat logging when the tides are turned against them