Newcomer / Intro Engineering and The Grind

Okay I have question about engineering a module. Only one and only a specific upgrade (F. Farseer's FSD Range increase Grade 1 to 5). I have started the Mat collection for this, and while short a couple of things, I am almost ready to head to Maia to try and get a Meta-Alloy to give to her as the bribe. But I have been finding either old or conflicting information on the Forums, YouTube Vids, etc. about getting the engineering done.

Now I understand that you can't just walk in to the FSD shop and tell her, "I'll have the Grade 5 Range increase, hold the pickles." You have to do the Grade 1, then 2, etc, etc first. This I have no problem with...Almost all games have a Grind and this is not new.

But the conflicting info I think I am seeing is with the old style Engineering where you basically spun the wheel so to speak and hoped you got a blessing from RNGesus to end up with a good pick. Also, I have read about there being multiple tries you have to do to get the whole "Grade 1" upgrade before you can go to "Grade 2".

Then I guess with the new system (at least what I have been able to find) you must do "Grade 1" X Number of times and you can't specifically pick which Grade 1 you will get. So You may get the Grade 1 Faster Boot or Shielded upgrade a couple of times (but only counting once) before you might get the Range Increase...THEN you can move to Grade 2 and start over again.

All I am wanting to do is get my FSD Range Maxed and then head out on an exploration mission...Right now I have a 35 ly jump range with my load out, and would like to increase it as much as I can by the Engineering Upgrade, but if it is still going to be a "throw the Dice and Pray" thing to get it involving LOTS of Mats and stuff (Involving even MORE grinding to find) it just isn't truly worth it.

I have tried to find a simpler explanation either in the forums or online, but either I am not searching for the right thing, or I am not searching properly. IF the info is readily available, Please forgive this post.

Thank you Commanders o7

Take Care and Check Six!
 
You'll need the meta-alloys from Maia to get her to even work with you, it helps her rep(which unlocks higher levels of her upgrades) if you turn in explorer data there too from your trip out, then it is random how much it adds towards your upgrade so pack enough for as many tries as you'll think you need, say 10 per rank to be safe, keep in mind it will draw more power too. It didn't take to much work to max mine and even get the guardian fsd booster. Im still fairly new, but also look into the traders if you need to exchange some to get the ones for FSD, there are three types of them too raw, encoded, and manufactured. I goofed up once and had to remove my mod just to have her do it all again unlocking the next tier. Reading up would have saved me lots of back tracking :)

 
When you first unlock an engineer, you need to rep them up by crafting modules so it will take more "rolls" for each of the lower grades then normal to get them repped up enough.

For a new engineer, plan to need the following rolls for each grade (1 through 4) to get access to the next grade up:
Grade 1: 2
Grade 2: 4
Grade 3: 6
Grade 4: 5

Because there is some randomness involved, it could take a 1 or 2 more (or less) for each grade. When I was unlocking engineers (recently), I used the above numbers for my planning of needed materials and never came up short and only sometimes ended up with extra.

Note, this only applies to the very first module you do at that engineer. Once you get that one up to 5, the engineer is all repped up and does a better job at the lower grades.

Once you get the engineer up to reputation 5, you will still need to do multiples of each of the lower grade in order to do the next grade up (gotta start with G1 for every module you engineer and work it up). The general rule of thumb I've used for gathering materials at that point has been:
Grade 1: 1
Grade 2: 2
Grade 3: 3
Grade 4: 4
Grade 5: 6+ (usually I just plan for 7 and don't worry about the very small fractional value away from max that I land on).

As far as the old system goes vs. the new, there is no randomness at all any more in terms of what you end up with if you roll it up to max. While there is random factor involved with how much you get with each roll, it is always going to be "better than where it is at now", with the max value defined. Using the number of rolls I list above you end up with a module that is within a few tenths of a percent of the max value almost ever time. Doing even more and more G5 rolls eventually will hit the absolute max but imo generally isn't worth it. (for jump range, for example, we're talking 0.0x Ly difference, where x is some value that I could not care less about.).
 
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Even with the old system which involved multiple rolls, maxing (or near maxing) your FSD was totally worth it. The FSD is one of the most important modules in most ships.

The new system is far easier. Just give it a go to see the initial benefits and you’ll be motivated enough by the results to see it through to G5 I’m sure...
 
When working out the materials required remember to budget for the experimental effect, you can apply this at any time during the engineering of the module but it is usually best to get into the habit of doing at the grade 1 level. For an improved range FSD you should pick Mass Manager for size 5 units and up while Deep Charge gives better range on the smaller FSDs but at a cost in fuel usage. In the new system there is nothing random in the experimental effect, you get the one you select at a fixed cost and it always gives the same results.

You cannot improve your standing with an engineer or apply experimental effects while working remotely on a pinned blueprint.
 
Then I guess with the new system (at least what I have been able to find) you must do "Grade 1" X Number of times and you can't specifically pick which Grade 1 you will get. So You may get the Grade 1 Faster Boot or Shielded upgrade a couple of times (but only counting once) before you might get the Range Increase...THEN you can move to Grade 2 and start over again.

All I am wanting to do is get my FSD Range Maxed and then head out on an exploration mission...Right now I have a 35 ly jump range with my load out, and would like to increase it as much as I can by the Engineering Upgrade, but if it is still going to be a "throw the Dice and Pray" thing to get it involving LOTS of Mats and stuff (Involving even MORE grinding to find) it just isn't truly worth it.
Once you get the engineer unlocked, you'll have to raise ranks to apply more upgrades. You will be able to choose what effect you want to add from the start. Fast reboot, range, shielded. There will be a different line of required material for each. You will need to 'Rank' your engineer up to access the next 'Grade' of engineering. You cannot apply more than 1 of the base effects to a module. Applying a new base effect will erase all former engineering on the module.

I would recommend however, to save on precious manufactured materials while raising rank, that you DO apply 2 different effects, to max G1, then switch to a different base effect (yes, erasing the previous one). Now raise that second base effect to max G1. The idea here is simply to push up that rank bar for only the cost of some very low grade material.
Repeat this process until the engineer rank bar is about a 1/4 the way into rank 3. This method will only consume G1 mats, nickel and iron for example, which can easily be mined on any metal planet using an srv rather quickly. You'll see the rank increases drop off as you get higher ofc.
At this point ( engineer is at rank 3 ) choose the effect and module you actually want, start fresh at G1. Upgrading the module to G3 will push the engineer into rank 4, and G4 from here should push them into rank 5. At lower ranks the engineer will require more rolls (and therefore materials) to finish a Grade. By using G1 raw mats to raise rank initially you are saving yourself from essentially wasting a bunch of manufactured materials to raise rank (even if you don't finish it all the way right now). At rank 5 you get sort of a bonus, that is 'generally' less rolls to complete a grade, but RNG is still a factor ofc. If you did it this way the engineer should be at rank 5 before you get to the first G5 upgrade roll, with a minimal use of higher grade materials.
Once to rank 5, using the 'remote engineering' feature from any station, you dont need to worry about traveling to the engineer or missing out on the rank raises anymore. You do still have to visit an engineer to apply experimental effects.

One other thing to note is that as soon as you roll an upgrade you will recieve the full negative effects of that grade level. They wont decrease incrementally like the positive stats. So doing only the first roll, of say 9 that it will probably need, to max out a G5 mod might not benefit you as much as staying at maxed G4 if you only have the mats for one G5 roll, depending on what stats really matter to you.
 
I would recommend however, to save on precious manufactured materials while raising rank, that you DO apply 2 different effects, to max G1, then switch to a different base effect (yes, erasing the previous one). Now raise that second base effect to max G1. The idea here is simply to push up that rank bar for only the cost of some very low grade material.
Repeat this process until the engineer rank bar is about a 1/4 the way into rank 3. This method will only consume G1 mats, nickel and iron for example, which can easily be mined on any metal planet using an srv rather quickly. You'll see the rank increases drop off as you get higher ofc.
The problem with your suggestion is that lower grade combines are massively inefficient at raising the engineer compared to those that are the same as the engineers current max rank. It's only 6 to 1 to upgrade materials upward within the same "row" but the xp ratio is worse than that.

It's a good thought, and from what I'm told used to be a good thing to do, but the rep gain was nerfed or something. It's not a good idea to do that anymore, imo. Just works best to take one module and rank it all the way up on one blueprint and then the engineer is maxed. If you look at the number of combines I indicate are needed to raise the engineer all the way to G5, it's not really that many rolls (i.e. not that much material cost).
 
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The grind is overstated. I think people look straight at the max grade and think "OMG! I can't do that!". Unless you're planning on PvP, G4 will be more than enough. It's not THE BEST but it's great. For eg. there's only a 10% difference in optimal mass between G4 and G5 FSD for range. You can easily get the mats for G4 upgrades just by playing normally. G5 is a grind I'll give you that.
 
Good luck! Arsenic isn't as difficult to find as you may think - once you know where.

Sorry for the tangential nature of my reply but that raw mat for the FSD used to be a thorn in my starboard bow (queue "Klingons off the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow, there's Klingons off the starboard bow. Jim!")
 
Just sell a few million in exploration data at Farseer Inc after unlocking with the meta alloy. Stop along the way and fully map 3 or 4 earth-likes if you don't have that much data. Unlock Felicity, sell the data. Insta-rep.

As long as you get the proficiency bonus each earth-like is over a million apiece.

When I unlocked Felicity I hadn't caught on to this yet, but by the time I unlocked Professor Palin I had. It's been a while now but I think it takes about 6 million in explo data to reach grade 5 access rep. This results in lowered mat costs, and faster progress, and full G5 pinned blueprints regardless if you have the mats to reach G5 while at the engineer base. The following engineers accept exploration data in exchange for access rep (and money).

Elvira Martuuk
Felicity Farseer
Selene Jean
Ram Tah
The Sarge
Professor Palin
Lori Jameson
 
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Thanks for the info everyone. So Jaggid, from what I am reading, to get Repped up to Grade 5, I am looking at a minimum of 17 times of"enter what ever it is I am doing here" and possibly 1 to 3 more just because of the RNG.

Now my mind is blown...not for the grind part of it, but for the fact that there are Commanders out there who have EVERY module on their ships modded out to G5, plus Guardian Mods, plus any other thing that they can mod up...THAT is DAYS (as in actual 24 hours of playing) worth of Searching for Mats, Destroying ships to get Mats, Data mining, etc.

My hat goes off to them, but it seems a lot of work for it. And from what I am reading, this doesn't carry over to other Mods of the same type (i.e. 4A FSD requires the same grinding as a 5A does). So say you have 3 ships with a 4A, 5A, and 6A FSD, you have to grind out all 3 FDS's say 20 times or more to get each of them to Grade 5. (If I am wrong on this part it's because I wasn't sure on the info)

Well, for the last week I have been harvesting materials, FSD wake data, and Manufactured components...I went to INARA, copied their Cargo Inventory to Excel, and created a manual check sheet to update my component lists. So far, I have everything to at least get me up to Grade 5 except for Arsenic, but that is just a matter of finding it on a planet list and go search for it.

Last night I was sitting in a High Res site, picking up component bits while everyone is buzzing around me blasting at each other...Hey, gotta get it where you can! Not in a rush, so I will continue to fill up the coffers so that I know I have all the stuff I need before I get started. I'd rather do it all at one time and be done with it.
 
It's not as much work as you might think. When you pick up materials you are getting 3 each time. I personally don't spend ANY time farming materials anymore (other than raws), I just gather what's available as I do "other stuff" and then use material traders to turn whatever i have into whatever I need. Doing this has worked to get me enough materials to completely engineer every (engineerable) module on a new ship as soon as I buy it...no grind at all.

For Raws, seeing as those you can't really get without going out of your way to get them, I just farm all the G4 materials at biological sites. Takes about 2 hours at the locations that @Aashenfox has shared with the community to completely fill all G4 raws (except Selenium). Then use the material traders to make it into what I need. That 2 hour farming is enough for many, many ships worth of engineering.

The way to make it not too much grind is to focus only on getting G5 materials (G4's for raws), trading down at material traders gets you a ton of the lower grade materials you might need. I'm not saying don't even pick up anything less than G5...but certainly never go out of your way to get them.

I'm at 12 ships in my fleet, all fully engineered and have the materials on hand to fully engineer my next planned purchase as well (need the credits now....). And I've only been playing for around 3 months.

If you're interested in the locations of those juicy biological sites, it's in this thread:
It's a bit of a trek, but once you get that FSD engineered it's worth a visit for getting all the raws for the rest of your engineering needs.
 
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Well, for the last week I have been harvesting materials, FSD wake data, and Manufactured components...I went to INARA, copied their Cargo Inventory to Excel, and created a manual check sheet to update my component lists. So far, I have everything to at least get me up to Grade 5 except for Arsenic, but that is just a matter of finding it on a planet list and go search for it.
I almost forgot that I wanted to make a comment on this. For that Arsenic, use EDDB to search for planets that have decent Arsenic levels AND volcanic activity. Then farm just the geological sites. You'll drive yourself crazy if you try to farm for raws by just 'driving around and using the scanner.' I highly recommend the locations i linked above for all of your raw material needs once you have a decent jump range on a ship, but until then, the volcanic activity-geological site method works in a pinch.
 
Depending on where you look, sometime g4's and 5's are easier to obtain, sometimes g1's 2's and 3's are easier. Thus collect and fill all you can, then go to trader and trade them for either the lower 1's, 2's and 3's or the higher 4's and 5's. Go back and do it again and again and ...
Personally I only use Robigo, Jameson Crash Site and busy stations to obtain items. I've made a half dozen trips to a couple of planets some 1500 ly's and back to a trader and maxed all my raws. And then there's the gazillion+ times I've been to Dav's Hope.
 
Just checked EDDB for meta-alloy. It seems my quest may be coming to a grinding halt. Darnielle's Progress (from what I am assuming) is the ONLY place in the entire galaxy to buy them. Currently, they have none for sale. So a backup is to find a Thargoid visited planet and find the Barnacles or what ever they are and get a Meta-Alloy from there.

Why, in my mind...does a play on a famous Monty Python movie pop up...

The Commander, weary from traveling hundreds of light years, finally arrives in the Decait system. Landing at Farseer Inc, the intrepid Commander walks into the work hanger of Felicity Farseer. Standing at a work station, he spies a female in her mid to late 60's working on an FSD core.

"Excuse me? Felicity Farseer? I have traveled many light years to be here an-..."

Turning from her work, with a slight frown on her face,"NI!!! NI!!!!"

"Oww! Madame, I come to-..."

Ni! Who are you to disturb my work! Ni! Ni!"

"Oh, Please! No More! I beg you!"

"What do you want?"

"I seek to upgrade my FSD drive so that I may adventur-..."

"Ni!! Silence! Do you think that I have time to drop what I am doing to upgrade your drive! Ni! Ni! Ni!"

"Oww, Ow...I will provide you any request Lady Farseer, if you will stop saying 'Ni' and please upgrade my drive!"

"For this, you must perform a task first before I will consider working on your drive. A task that will prove you are truly sincere in your quest!"

"Anything!"

"I want....a Meta-Alloy!!!"

" A what?"

"Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni!"

"Ow! Oh! Please! Please! No more! I will find you a Meta-Alloy."

"You must return here with a Meta-Alloy, or else, you will never get your FSD Upgrade... alive."

"O Felicity Farseer, you are just and fair, and I will return with a Meta-Alloy."

"One that looks nice."

"Of course..."

"And not too expensive...Now head to the Maia system, at Darnielle's Progress, you will find what you seek!" Now Go! Ni! Ni Ni! Ni!

Oww! Ow! Yes, I will find your Meta-Alloy and will return!

As the Commander turns and runs to the ship, Felicity snickers to herself, "Hehehe...yeah, good luck with that one!"

(Note, some of this was my creation, and of course much was from the minds of Monty Python, but I give those Masters of Comedy all the credit for this.)

Take Care and Check Six Commanders! o7
 
Just checked EDDB for meta-alloy. It seems my quest may be coming to a grinding halt. Darnielle's Progress (from what I am assuming) is the ONLY place in the entire galaxy to buy them. Currently, they have none for sale. So a backup is to find a Thargoid visited planet and find the Barnacles or what ever they are and get a Meta-Alloy from there.

Why, in my mind...does a play on a famous Monty Python movie pop up...

The Commander, weary from traveling hundreds of light years, finally arrives in the Decait system. Landing at Farseer Inc, the intrepid Commander walks into the work hanger of Felicity Farseer. Standing at a work station, he spies a female in her mid to late 60's working on an FSD core.

"Excuse me? Felicity Farseer? I have traveled many light years to be here an-..."

Turning from her work, with a slight frown on her face,"NI!!! NI!!!!"

"Oww! Madame, I come to-..."

Ni! Who are you to disturb my work! Ni! Ni!"

"Oh, Please! No More! I beg you!"

"What do you want?"

"I seek to upgrade my FSD drive so that I may adventur-..."

"Ni!! Silence! Do you think that I have time to drop what I am doing to upgrade your drive! Ni! Ni! Ni!"

"Oww, Ow...I will provide you any request Lady Farseer, if you will stop saying 'Ni' and please upgrade my drive!"

"For this, you must perform a task first before I will consider working on your drive. A task that will prove you are truly sincere in your quest!"

"Anything!"

"I want....a Meta-Alloy!!!"

" A what?"

"Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni!"

"Ow! Oh! Please! Please! No more! I will find you a Meta-Alloy."

"You must return here with a Meta-Alloy, or else, you will never get your FSD Upgrade... alive."

"O Felicity Farseer, you are just and fair, and I will return with a Meta-Alloy."

"One that looks nice."

"Of course..."

"And not too expensive...Now head to the Maia system, at Darnielle's Progress, you will find what you seek!" Now Go! Ni! Ni Ni! Ni!

Oww! Ow! Yes, I will find your Meta-Alloy and will return!

As the Commander turns and runs to the ship, Felicity snickers to herself, "Hehehe...yeah, good luck with that one!"

(Note, some of this was my creation, and of course much was from the minds of Monty Python, but I give those Masters of Comedy all the credit for this.)

Take Care and Check Six Commanders! o7
Are you sure they aren’t selling any over at Maia mate? They haven’t run dry on Meta Alloys in quite some time...

I’m currently sat between jobs and I have an exploraconda in the hangar next door, I can do a very quick recon for you and double check if you like?

Edit: Also, Felicity Farseer is probably way over 100 years old. ED toons live a hell of a lot longer...
 
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@CMDR Maymo, I was about to type the very same thing.

Failing that, you can gather your own. See this thread for more info:
 
@CMDR Maymo, I was about to type the very same thing.

Failing that, you can gather your own. See this thread for more info:
I’m like 2 jumps away... 😉

I’ll take a peek. Pretty sure FD made it impossible for D Progress to run out...
 
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