Engineering in Beyond - do I have this right?

[-VR- Max Factor]

In a sense you're right of course - but I'm investing these now in order to achieve the needed LevelUp. Which I don't need to do now.

So while they're not wasted and perform a function, I don't need their individual results. I have no use for a 60% complete solid G2 roll when seeking a 90%+ G5 roll.
In effect, all those Mats are now required to permit a single G5 roll, they've become a prerequisite. Like having to "Unlock the Engineer" all over again, but this time for every single mod. Again and again.

And when I compare 12 x Engineer Mods (G1 to G4) needed to permit a G5 Mod vs. "no prerequisites after unlocking the Engineer", I'm seeing a massive additional requirement.

Additionally, the Materials Traders might help that - BUT...
1 ? Trader for Elements
1 ? Trader for Materials
1 ? Trader for Data

All in different locations, spread all over the bubble? 6:1 initial Trade ratio?
That means the jump-a-thon for the Engineers will get the jump-a-thon for these Traders ending up on top. Further additional travel needed, similar to having to visit the old Engineer Cargo sellers.

Seriously, this isn't easier. It's far more work-intensive.

Add to that the unchanged methods of acquisition of all these things, the potential for becoming an insane grindfest is huge. That's all I'm saying.
But at least you get something... changed goalposts, allowing (from the sound of it) 10-15% better Stats at the end of the Grindfest compared to existing G5 mods.

PS.
I do hope there's plenty of Material Traders all over the place. And that maybe the 6:1 ratio can be adjusted in order to balance the whole thing. Then, it can indeed work just fine. Time will tell.

You are thinking about trading the materials up. Don't, trade them down instead and you will need to get far fewer materials. I have no issues flying to material brokers, I think there will be many scatter around the bubble. Flying my ships is the main part of the game, so it doesn't bother me if I have other reasons to fly them to places.

The Grindfest should be no different to what we already do. I don't grind for stuff, so it will be no different for me except I will be getting a guaranteed update when I do spend my materials instead of the potential of wasting them on something that was worse then what I had. To the people that want to grind, grind for G5 materials only and trade them down for the required mats, plus you will pick lower grade materials up as you grind for your grade 5 mats. I really can't see where the extra grind is apart from potentially having to press a button a few more times to get good G5. It could actually be less presses of a button.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Citation needed.

Fact that YOU want G5 everything doesn't mean everybody does.

Min maxers should learn how to let it go.

You are the one who needs to let this idea go that its min maxers who dislike the engineer changes, its the other way round!

old system base G1 and new system base G1 take the exact same - no one is better or worse off.

old system base G2 takes 1 set of G2 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 1 set of G2 materials - this non maxed module takes 4 times the sets materials in the new system.

old system base G3 takes 1 set of G3 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 1 set of G3 materials - this non maxed module takes 7 times the sets materials in the new system

old system base G4 takes 1 set of G4 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 1 set of G4 materials - this non maxed module takes 10 times the sets of materials in the new system

old system base G5 takes 1 set of G5 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G4 materials, PLUS 1 set of G5 materials - this non maxed module takes 13 times sets of materials in the new system

Old max G5 takes a random number of sets of G5 materials, New max G5 takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G4 materials, PLUS 3 set of G5 materials - This MAXED module MAY take less materials in the new system than in the old system

Shocker right? EVERY module that is NOT a maxed G5, takes more materials and time in the new system, while only a MAXED G5 module takes less materials and time.

In other words the people who AREN'T min maxers are worse off, while min maxers are the only ones who are better off. The total opposite of your continuously repeated rhetoric that the people complaining only want max G5, when in fact the people complaining are those who DONT want max G5, as the new system is worse for them.

 

[Alec Turner]

old system base G1 and new system base G1 take the exact same - no one is better or worse off.

old system base G2 takes 1 set of G2 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 1 set of G2 materials - this non maxed module takes 4 times the sets materials in the new system.

old system base G3 takes 1 set of G3 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 1 set of G3 materials - this non maxed module takes 7 times the sets materials in the new system

old system base G4 takes 1 set of G4 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 1 set of G4 materials - this non maxed module takes 10 times the sets of materials in the new system

old system base G5 takes 1 set of G5 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G4 materials, PLUS 1 set of G5 materials - this non maxed module takes 13 times sets of materials in the new system

Old max G5 takes a random number of sets of G5 materials, New max G5 takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G4 materials, PLUS 3 set of G5 materials - This MAXED module MAY take less materials in the new system than in the old system

Shocker right? EVERY module that is NOT a maxed G5, takes more materials and time in the new system, while only a MAXED G5 module takes less materials and time.

Repped! This is the clearest statement of what's wrong with the new 1-5 engineering system that I've seen (unless you and I have both grossly misunderstood something).

n.b. your sums assume we've already unlocked grade 5 in the old system. If we haven't then the first (and only the first) time we engineer a new type of module in the old system then we'll also have to work our way through the grades which may possibly take more mat's than in the new system .... but it's only once!

 

[JonathanBurnage]

You are the one who needs to let this idea go that its min maxers who dislike the engineer changes, its the other way round!

old system base G1 and new system base G1 take the exact same - no one is better or worse off.

old system base G2 takes 1 set of G2 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 1 set of G2 materials - this non maxed module takes 4 times the sets materials in the new system.

old system base G3 takes 1 set of G3 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 1 set of G3 materials - this non maxed module takes 7 times the sets materials in the new system

old system base G4 takes 1 set of G4 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 1 set of G4 materials - this non maxed module takes 10 times the sets of materials in the new system

old system base G5 takes 1 set of G5 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G4 materials, PLUS 1 set of G5 materials - this non maxed module takes 13 times sets of materials in the new system

Old max G5 takes a random number of sets of G5 materials, New max G5 takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G4 materials, PLUS 3 set of G5 materials - This MAXED module MAY take less materials in the new system than in the old system

Shocker right? EVERY module that is NOT a maxed G5, takes more materials and time in the new system, while only a MAXED G5 module takes less materials and time.

In other words the people who AREN'T min maxers are worse off, while min maxers are the only ones who are better off. The total opposite of your continuously repeated rhetoric that the people complaining only want max G5, when in fact the people complaining are those who DONT want max G5, as the new system is worse for them.

Bingo. Building a maxed out PvP ship just got easier by at least two orders of magnitude. The rest of us have to grind through the grades just to pop a few G5 rolls onto something.

 

[Han_Zen]

Bingo. Building a maxed out PvP ship just got easier by at least two orders of magnitude. The rest of us have to grind through the grades just to pop a few G5 rolls onto something.

I think the intersection point is about 4-5 G5 rolls. If you do more than that, you will benefit from the new system, if you do less you end up with a bit higher material cost.

The biggest winners are those that have a bunch of poor g5 modules stored. These can now be converted and top leveled, with limited cost.

 

[Darkfyre99]

You are the one who needs to let this idea go that its min maxers who dislike the engineer changes, its the other way round!

old system base G1 and new system base G1 take the exact same - no one is better or worse off.

old system base G2 takes 1 set of G2 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 1 set of G2 materials - this non maxed module takes 4 times the sets materials in the new system.

old system base G3 takes 1 set of G3 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 1 set of G3 materials - this non maxed module takes 7 times the sets materials in the new system

old system base G4 takes 1 set of G4 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 1 set of G4 materials - this non maxed module takes 10 times the sets of materials in the new system

old system base G5 takes 1 set of G5 materials, new system takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G4 materials, PLUS 1 set of G5 materials - this non maxed module takes 13 times sets of materials in the new system

Old max G5 takes a random number of sets of G5 materials, New max G5 takes an average of 3 sets of G1 materials PLUS 3 sets of G2 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G3 materials, PLUS 3 sets of G4 materials, PLUS 3 set of G5 materials - This MAXED module MAY take less materials in the new system than in the old system

Shocker right? EVERY module that is NOT a maxed G5, takes more materials and time in the new system, while only a MAXED G5 module takes less materials and time.

In other words the people who AREN'T min maxers are worse off, while min maxers are the only ones who are better off. The total opposite of your continuously repeated rhetoric that the people complaining only want max G5, when in fact the people complaining are those who DONT want max G5, as the new system is worse for them.

If we still had the old material storage system, with its 1000 material global limit, you would be correct. The new material storage, with its 100 material per item limit, means that you don't have to throw away the "useless" stuff anymore.

For example, here's what you'll find while looking for Chemical Manipulators, used in three popular G5 mods:

• Basic Conductors
• Chemical Distillery
• Chemical Manipulators
• Chemical Processors
• Chemical Storage Units
• Conductive Ceramics
• Conductive Components
• Conductive Polymers
• Configurable Components
• Heat Conduction Wiring
• Heat Dispersion Plate
• Heat Exchangers
• Heat Resistant Ceramics
• Heat Vanes
• Mechanical Components
• Mechanical Equipment
• Mechanical Scrap

Just one of these items, heat vanes, is used in five different blueprints that I tend use frequently, including Low Emission Power Plants. Normally, I'd spam grade 1 until I get a bonus to power production that will offset the penalty for that blueprint, and then call it good. Now, when I'm looking to do a grade 5 FSD, I'll also be able to get the materials for a Grade 3 LEPP... assuming that the Grade 3 with an Experimental boost to power production can do the job that the Grade 1 with the same effect, only run cooler.

As I see it, the only negative to the new system is that you can't jump straight to the G5 mods anymore, but this is more than offset by how much more productive the hunt for G5 components will be. No more leaving stuff lying on the ground or floating in space, because you don't want to waste storage space on them. No more wasting time cleaning out your storage, to make room for a couple of exquisite focus crystals. The components you don't find while searching for G5 components for the mod you're looking for, are likely to be found during the search for a different G5 mod.

 

[JonathanBurnage]

I think the intersection point is about 4-5 G5 rolls. If you do more than that, you will benefit from the new system, if you do less you end up with a bit higher material cost.

The biggest winners are those that have a bunch of poor g5 modules stored. These can now be converted and top leveled, with limited cost.

I’d say it’s higher than that, once all the logistics of gathering and trading materials are accounted for, but only time will tell.

 

[JonathanBurnage]

If we still had the old material storage system, with its 1000 material global limit, you would be correct. The new material storage, with its 100 material per item limit, means that you don't have to throw away the "useless" stuff anymore.

For example, here's what you'll find while looking for Chemical Manipulators, used in three popular G5 mods:

• Basic Conductors
• Chemical Distillery
• Chemical Manipulators
• Chemical Processors
• Chemical Storage Units
• Conductive Ceramics
• Conductive Components
• Conductive Polymers
• Configurable Components
• Heat Conduction Wiring
• Heat Dispersion Plate
• Heat Exchangers
• Heat Resistant Ceramics
• Heat Vanes
• Mechanical Components
• Mechanical Equipment
• Mechanical Scrap

Just one of these items, heat vanes, is used in five different blueprints that I tend use frequently, including Low Emission Power Plants. Normally, I'd spam grade 1 until I get a bonus to power production that will offset the penalty for that blueprint, and then call it good. Now, when I'm looking to do a grade 5 FSD, I'll also be able to get the materials for a Grade 3 LEPP... assuming that the Grade 3 with an Experimental boost to power production can do the job that the Grade 1 with the same effect, only run cooler.

As I see it, the only negative to the new system is that you can't jump straight to the G5 mods anymore, but this is more than offset by how much more productive the hunt for G5 components will be. No more leaving stuff lying on the ground or floating in space, because you don't want to waste storage space on them. No more wasting time cleaning out your storage, to make room for a couple of exquisite focus crystals. The components you don't find while searching for G5 components for the mod you're looking for, are likely to be found during the search for a different G5 mod.

True, however, the new space may get filled rather quickly when you consider how many materials you’ll need for an entire ship. You’re not guaranteed to find those other things at the same time - and even if you do, you’ve still got to pick them all up. The extra logistics of gathering and trading things should not be underestimated.

 

[Han_Zen]

I’d say it’s higher than that, once all the logistics of gathering and trading materials are accounted for, but only time will tell.

We will see. I think it may drop even lower, once we have played a while and have filled up our new storage space.

It will definitely be less cherry picking of materials and more grabbing all you can get.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Some things as PvP? But PvP is very very small part of the game. And I expect this to raise overall level but make G5 more obsolete.

It is min max psychology and that's all. Let it go.

It may be otherwise. See today's patch notes.

And, my thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/401655-Serious-Information-Request

 

[Deleted member 38366]

You are thinking about trading the materials up. Don't, trade them down instead and you will need to get far fewer materials. I have no issues flying to material brokers, I think there will be many scatter around the bubble. Flying my ships is the main part of the game, so it doesn't bother me if I have other reasons to fly them to places.

The Grindfest should be no different to what we already do. I don't grind for stuff, so it will be no different for me except I will be getting a guaranteed update when I do spend my materials instead of the potential of wasting them on something that was worse then what I had. To the people that want to grind, grind for G5 materials only and trade them down for the required mats, plus you will pick lower grade materials up as you grind for your grade 5 mats. I really can't see where the extra grind is apart from potentially having to press a button a few more times to get good G5. It could actually be less presses of a button.

Well, if you could give me a list of Grade 6 Materials I could trade down to Grade 5 ....

Plus, don't forget there's no side-trading. You have a nice bunch of Grade 4 Materials - but which happen to be in the wrong category... say bye bye to the idea of Trading them for Grade 5.
Same for many surplus and useless-for-you Grade 5 things you might have. Sure, you can multiply them - but you'd just end up with alot more Grade 4 items of the same Category you don't need either.

 

[Scoob]

*sigh* you know, I was sure I'd miss-understood something about the Engineering changes, but sadly it seems not.

On the face of it, to me at least, it seems the changes benefit the perfectionists among us who are content to roll, re-roll and roll again until they have their "perfect" roll. I suspect these guys are going to like the new system. However, those of us who more casually use Engineers are going to struggle. For example, I generally grind a little to unlock an Engineer to at least G3, before I then apply mods I plan to actually use on my ships. As a rule of thumb, assuming no roll-killing penalty is applied, I generally stick with what I get from my first roll if it's around 50% as good and that tier can possible be. I'm not a perfectionist.

With this more casual approach to Engineering in mind, I fear I'm basically going to be forced to grind massively more, for my style of play. I.e. I unlock G3 Efficient Beams from The Dweller with a little grind, I then go and apply G3 Efficient Beam upgrades to several of my weapons in one go, then move on to playing the game proper. Now it seems, I'm going to have to apply G1 - 3 on ALL those beams, using massively more materials just to get that one G3 roll I'll likely be happy with after the first roll at that level. If this is the case, and part of me still hopes I'm wrong, it's rubbish.

My hope had been that once I'd unlocked an Engineer to say Level 3 and I'd unlocked "Efficient Weapon" for Beams (as an example) to G3, I'd be able to apply G3 Efficient Weapon to all the beams on my ship in one go. This way forces the player to unlock Mods on an individual mod basis, rather than the Engineers level, so it gives a degree of logical progression in that regard. So, if you've unlocked G5 Efficient Weapon for example, you cannot then apply G5 Long-Range Weapon to another items, you'd have to then raise that mod through the grades first.

Scoob.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well, if you could give me a list of Grade 6 Materials I could trade down to Grade 5 ....

Plus, don't forget there's no side-trading. You have a nice bunch of Grade 4 Materials - but which happen to be in the wrong category... say bye bye to the idea of Trading them for Grade 5.
Same for many surplus and useless-for-you Grade 5 things you might have. Sure, you can multiply them - but you'd just end up with alot more Grade 4 items of the same Category you don't need either.

There are no grade 6 materials, so not too sure what you are getting at. Basically the grind for materials is going to be very similar to what you needed to do in the old engineers. Then made easier with the materials broker and the fact that you won't need to throw any materials away to manage them. It could end up with less grind then the current system. So lets find out and test it first before jumping to conclusions.

*sigh* you know, I was sure I'd miss-understood something about the Engineering changes, but sadly it seems not.

On the face of it, to me at least, it seems the changes benefit the perfectionists among us who are content to roll, re-roll and roll again until they have their "perfect" roll. I suspect these guys are going to like the new system. However, those of us who more casually use Engineers are going to struggle. For example, I generally grind a little to unlock an Engineer to at least G3, before I then apply mods I plan to actually use on my ships. As a rule of thumb, assuming no roll-killing penalty is applied, I generally stick with what I get from my first roll if it's around 50% as good and that tier can possible be. I'm not a perfectionist.

With this more casual approach to Engineering in mind, I fear I'm basically going to be forced to grind massively more, for my style of play. I.e. I unlock G3 Efficient Beams from The Dweller with a little grind, I then go and apply G3 Efficient Beam upgrades to several of my weapons in one go, then move on to playing the game proper. Now it seems, I'm going to have to apply G1 - 3 on ALL those beams, using massively more materials just to get that one G3 roll I'll likely be happy with after the first roll at that level. If this is the case, and part of me still hopes I'm wrong, it's rubbish.

My hope had been that once I'd unlocked an Engineer to say Level 3 and I'd unlocked "Efficient Weapon" for Beams (as an example) to G3, I'd be able to apply G3 Efficient Weapon to all the beams on my ship in one go. This way forces the player to unlock Mods on an individual mod basis, rather than the Engineers level, so it gives a degree of logical progression in that regard. So, if you've unlocked G5 Efficient Weapon for example, you cannot then apply G5 Long-Range Weapon to another items, you'd have to then raise that mod through the grades first.

Scoob.

Just play as you usually would and let the materials come to you. There shouldn't be much if any difference.

 

[NeilF]

Just play as you usually would and let the materials come to you.

...and then faff about with spreadsheets and the like trying to work out what to use where, and where/when to go to Mat Traders, and what to change for what...

All contrived faff for me at least. I'd prefer something far more friendly and accessible rather than that sort of unnecessary work.

 

[Sylow]

*sigh* you know, I was sure I'd miss-understood something about the Engineering changes, but sadly it seems not.

On the face of it, to me at least, it seems the changes benefit the perfectionists among us who are content to roll, re-roll and roll again until they have their "perfect" roll. I suspect these guys are going to like the new system. However, those of us who more casually use Engineers are going to struggle. For example, I generally grind a little to unlock an Engineer to at least G3, before I then apply mods I plan to actually use on my ships. As a rule of thumb, assuming no roll-killing penalty is applied, I generally stick with what I get from my first roll if it's around 50% as good and that tier can possible be. I'm not a perfectionist.

With this more casual approach to Engineering in mind, I fear I'm basically going to be forced to grind massively more, for my style of play. I.e. I unlock G3 Efficient Beams from The Dweller with a little grind, I then go and apply G3 Efficient Beam upgrades to several of my weapons in one go, then move on to playing the game proper. Now it seems, I'm going to have to apply G1 - 3 on ALL those beams, using massively more materials just to get that one G3 roll I'll likely be happy with after the first roll at that level. If this is the case, and part of me still hopes I'm wrong, it's rubbish.

My hope had been that once I'd unlocked an Engineer to say Level 3 and I'd unlocked "Efficient Weapon" for Beams (as an example) to G3, I'd be able to apply G3 Efficient Weapon to all the beams on my ship in one go. This way forces the player to unlock Mods on an individual mod basis, rather than the Engineers level, so it gives a degree of logical progression in that regard. So, if you've unlocked G5 Efficient Weapon for example, you cannot then apply G5 Long-Range Weapon to another items, you'd have to then raise that mod through the grades first.

Scoob.

You're in an interesting postion.
.
I mean, there's a many people who think that getting G5 will be harder. But there's several well founded postings, both in here and in a seperate thread, which explain that when you work for G5 upgrades, you get most if not all the lower materials on the way. (And the material trader might help with the rest. )
.
If G5 is your goal, you're actually better off in the new system.
.
Then there's those who say that they never grind. They might also be better off now, depending what they do. For the pure space explorer (no SRV) or the pure trader, they haven't gotten materials before and don't get them now, so nothing changes. Anybody who does casual combat, mining or prospecting now, with the material trader, has an easier time to get some upgrades, but will indeed take a little longer to improve them.
.
You seem to be somewhere there. You collect what you find and just sometimes work for something. In the old system you gamble. You an get a nice upgrade, but if you roll badly on the secondaries you can actually also get a downgrade. (In the present system i managed to roll a powerplant with lower integrity, worse heat efficiency and even a little lower power output than an unmodified one. I think i should actually have kept it just to show it around. ) In the new system the upgrade per roll is less, but it'll be reliable. Whenever you get material to upgrade, your gear will get better.
.
So if your basis is to grind for G3, you probably end up with less than in the old system. But if you aim for G5 and just also use the other stuff which you find on the way, you'll end up not only with one G5 upgrade, but also some lower tier upgrades for other components, as the materials came in "by themselves" on the way.
.
You might want to look either for a little more or a little less effort than you describe what you do. Less effort will result in lower upgrades but basically "for free", without really paying much attention, while even a little more effort will make sure that you'll end up with noticeably better gear than you do now. But if you do what you describe, you might indeed be one of the few people who actually fall behind in the new system.
.

 

[Scoob]

Thanks. I've only really gotten into engineering the past couple of months. I had a long break from the game, literally stopped playing about a week after Engineering was introduced, though not because of Engineering, just external factors. When I came back, I read repeatedly how materials would just come to me through natural play, so, after several weeks playing the game again I managed to do a few very basic - literally G1 and G2 - upgrades before I was constantly short of something it seemed. Even now, after lots more play, there are still plenty of materials I've either not even discovered yet, or have just 1 or 2 of. I'm hoping I have a good enough spread of materials that I can trade for higher-tier items, though I can 100% guarantee that I will be burning through a LOT more materials than before based on the proposed changes. I've no doubt of that at all.

So, while I can always get that "god roll" eventually - assuming I care to take it that far - I'm going to use a lot more stuff to get there. I mean, take one of the larger ships with seven hard points for example. Say I want to fit Lasers in each slot - I like lasers - and modify all of them for a "reasonable" G3 Efficient roll. Rather than just using the bulk of my materials for on the first Laser for "levelling" rolls, before likely keeping the first G3 I do, then applying G3's directly to the remaining six lasers, I'm now doing "grind rolls" for all seven lasers, not just one. This seems really really stupid!

One of the things Sandro I think it was said in one of the live streams was that they wanted more people to use Engineering. This is a good thing in principal, but I don't think they're going about it the right way. People who are potentially going to try Engineering for the first time after these changes are live, are likely by their previous ambivalent reaction to Engineering going to be "casual" Engineers like me. However, the busy work they're going to need to put it to satisfying their less exacting expectations from Engineering, will be more than the current system.

I just think FDev are going down the wrong path here, when you consider what they said their goals are. I.e. encouraging players to Engineer who previously had little interest, and reduce the "grind" factor of Engineering. I mean, whereas before I'd likely be perfectly happy with the G3 roll I got for a mod, now I've got to go through G1 and G2 beforehand. This takes more of my time for the simply act of rolling, and potentially far far more time gathering an trading materials. Not my idea of fun.

Scoob.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

...and then faff about with spreadsheets and the like trying to work out what to use where, and where/when to go to Mat Traders, and what to change for what...

All contrived faff for me at least. I'd prefer something far more friendly and accessible rather than that sort of unnecessary work.

Same as what we have to do know. It's no different. Not that I am saying I am happy with that. I would much prefer to be able to see what we can engineer with the engineers we have unlocked. I never understood the logic of that. Plus instead on pining one blueprint you should be able to pin a one range such as overcharged multicannons and be able to go from 1 - 5 if you want to at the mobile workship.

 

[NeilF]

Same as what we have to do know. It's no different. Not that I am saying I am happy with that. I would much prefer to be able to see what we can engineer with the engineers we have unlocked. I never understood the logic of that. Plus instead on pining one blueprint you should be able to pin a one range such as overcharged multicannons and be able to go from 1 - 5 if you want to at the mobile workship.

Agreed... But having a clunky contrived mechanic, and then throwing some more time at time simply keeping it nigh on just as clunky, doesn't seem a good second attempt to me.

I wouldn't want to use Engineer as it was. I wouldn't want to use it now.

I prefer the new roll mechanics, but the needless micro-management of materials is just tedious and not my idea of anything approaching fun/worth while.

 

[Scoob]

I prefer the new roll mechanics, but the needless micro-management of materials is just tedious and not my idea of anything approaching fun/worth while.

This is the biggest *sigh* factor for me...more material hunting. I just hope the spread of materials I find though natural gameplay do give me the option to trade for the stuff I actually want. The last thing we need are situations where an entire class of wares are hard to find.

In addition of course, and this is a real pain, it's fine to say we can trade our lower-tier - and one assumes more plentiful - materials for the stuff we actually need. But of course we're going to need a lot of the basic stuff too, as we have to go G1 to G5 on EVERYTHING now. My hope had been that we'd perhaps gain and excess of the basic materials through natural play, that we'd not need as we'd be concentrating on higher-tier upgrades. However, that's not how it's going to be.

Considering the gaping holes I have in my materials and data currently, having actually done some deliberate grind to gain what I'm missing, I'm not hopeful this update will change that.

Scoob.

 

[Chime]

What a chore. And I thought it wasn't possible to mess up the Engineers more than they already are.